Second Life Forums Archive - National Debt (Interesting graph)

Nyoko Salome

kittytailmeowmeow

Join date: 18 Jul 2005

Posts: 1,378

09-23-2005 17:37

'economists' (whoever they are, whatever degree/school/morals they have under their belt

say that 'no debt is bad'... something or other to do with building credit ratings, i think i remember, as if an entire countries debt standings were equivalent with one human individual's credit rating.

well, from this (indebted, still-to-make-up) individual human's perspective, it has nothing compared to the negative standing you get when you think you can think or talk your way out of the hole... you can only -earn- your way out. and the kudos go to those who can -actually- do so. (which is why clinton has such a warm spot in my, and many others hearts.)

don't care 'bout inflation... don't care 'bout wise-ass degrees in economy or such-n-such... it -always- comes down to how solvent you are, period. or, at the very least, how dedicated you are to endeavoring to such.

i know my very-kind landlord, so much kinder than others, is willing to take a bet on my unemployed ass, just to make up the rent i haven't been able to pay for the past two months, but that's based on his previous experience with my ability in other times of peril to make up my shortfall.

i wouldn't bet one penny upon jr./roveCo.

They. Don't. Care.

and anybody that wanna refutes that, it's -their- responsibility to prove so. -prove it.-

there, that's my throw-down for the night.

not like i've got anything to lose; my string of bad luck is hard enough as it is.

'brin' it'on!' - jr., in a totally gross moment of drunken frat-boy hubris

_____________________

Nyoko's Bodyoils @ Nyoko's Wears
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Centaur/126/251/734/
http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/index.html

"i don't spend nearly enough time on the holodeck. i should go there more often and relax." - deanna troi

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

09-24-2005 06:12

I've always said I'd like to see the debt drop, but looking at it from another perspective, our ability to pay that debt off is much better than ALOT of other countries.

From: someone

"US debt is 62.4% of GDP (2003), France is 68.8% of GDP (2003), Japan is 154.6% of GDP (2003), Germany 64.2% of GDP (2003), Canada 77% of GDP (2003), Egypt debt is 101.8% of GDP (2003), Greece debt is 100.9% of GDP (2003), Austria debt is 67.7% of GDP (2003), Italy debt is 106.4% of GDP (2003), even countries like Switzerland and Sweden have debt over 50% of GDP. The percentage is more important than the actual amounts (which is still quite high for many nations) because it relates directly to the nations ability to rectify the debt. The US has a substantial debt but as a percentage is in a better position to budget itself out of debt when compared to the many nations with debt 70% and the many with debt over 100% of the GDP."

Man, France, Canada, Japan...what the HECK are you doing with those huge debts!!!?? You're screwed now.... stop invading "innocent" countries and maybe....oh wait..

_____________________

BTW

WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!

Zuzu Fassbinder

Little Miss No Tomorrow

Join date: 17 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,048

09-24-2005 07:09

From: Garoad Kuroda

Man, France, Canada, Japan...what the HECK are you doing with those huge debts!!!?? You're screwed now.... stop invading "innocent" countries and maybe....oh wait..

wooohoo, we can have an economy like France or Japan without all the messy spending on domestic programs.

_____________________

From: Bud

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

09-24-2005 07:17

But then who would scare the shit out of Jong-il???

I'm just screwing around at this point by the way, if I were seriously making an argument this sentence would likely be replaced by 5 stupid verbose paragraphs.

_____________________

BTW

WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!

Garoad Kuroda

Prophet of Muppetry

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 2,989

09-24-2005 07:31

You know what would be interesting to see though?

A comparison of how much the US spends on domestic assistance type programs compared to other nations, after being adjusted for the different sized economies and such.

Just looked up a list of comparative defense spending in fact. I'm not shocked to see the US near the top of the list, but what I am wondering is why FRANCE isn't too far behind in spending per person.

France has military spending???

Are they contributing to the UK's defense budget or something?? UK's is pretty low comparatively in fact...something strange going on there!!!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_tot_exp_as_of_gdp

_____________________

BTW

WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!

Siro Mfume

XD

Join date: 5 Aug 2004

Posts: 747

07-16-2006 02:31

From http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

$8,420,921,003,753.29 as of this post.

Edited to add: My share of that debt is more than I make yearly. How about you? Consider for a moment that the unpaid portion of my share does one of two things. 1. Is further added to the debt. or 2. Gets paid by people who make more than their share.

Alazarin Mondrian

Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon

Join date: 4 Apr 2005

Posts: 1,549

07-16-2006 02:57

From: Garoad Kuroda

France has military spending???

Yes, actually. Check out D'Assault-Mirage. Rather good fighter planes amongst other things. And remember that over 90% of electricity in France is nuclear generated. It might help if you Americans got over your provincial chauvinism.

From: Zuzu Fassbinder

The last time the UK tried to make us pay-up for our wars (French & Indian war we call it) we dumped all their tea into Boston harbor, so don't even think about it.

Be thankful that the Brits were a little bit more scrupulous about keeping to their side of the lend-lease agreement.

From: Zuzu Fassbinder

wooohoo, we can have an economy like France or Japan without all the messy spending on domestic programs.

The people of a nation are part of it's wealth and future. Investing in domestic programs is investment in a nation's future. Never forget that.

From: Eboni Khan

The dollar in 1950 will only buy 13 cents of what the dollar of today will buy. Think about 4% inflation over 55 years.

Actually you'll find that the reverse would be true. A dollar today only has the purchasing power of 13 cents in 1950.

_____________________

My stuff on Meta-Life: http://tinyurl.com/ykq7nzt
http://www.myspace.com/alazarinmobius
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Crescent/72/98/116

Ghoti Nyak

καλλιστι

Join date: 7 Aug 2004

Posts: 2,078

07-16-2006 05:34

Wow, serious necroposting.

-Ghoti

_____________________

"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft

Al Sonic

Builder Furiend

Join date: 13 Jun 2006

Posts: 162

Necropost indeed, but...

07-16-2006 22:33

From: someone

Wow, serious necroposting.

-Ghoti

Yep Ghoti (shall I pronounce that "fish"?), kinda funny how it's having a sort of 'rebirth' after a little over nine months.

From: Zuzu Fassbinder

From: Julian Fate

I notice no one said, "So George Bush lowered the debt in his first couple years in office?"</fuel on the fire>

Um, not the first couple years, but, yes it did go down in 2001 from the budget apporved in 2000 under Clinton

Yes, approved under Clinton after being put together by Republicans. (I just had to say it

.)

Siro Mfume

XD

Join date: 5 Aug 2004

Posts: 747

07-16-2006 22:36

From: Ghoti Nyak

Wow, serious necroposting.

-Ghoti

Yes, I was looking for the oldest, yet still relevant thread I could find

Tomball Freelunch

Registered User

Join date: 16 Jun 2006

Posts: 9

07-16-2006 23:33

If you guys are into number crunching and statistical comparisons between world economies or are just curious about some information the CIA puts out in the public domain, I present:

CIA World Factbook
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

If you just want to get to the 'world scoreboard' and can't be bothered to dig through the website for pertinent information, here's this:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/rankorderguide.html

This page allows you to rank countries according to their public debt, GDP, military spending, etc.

Enjoy!

Musuko Massiel

Registered User

Join date: 4 Nov 2005

Posts: 435

07-17-2006 05:02

Those who say you can't get a simple explanation out of the graph: the first poster never claimed that you could. The graph simply shows that the debt has ballooned since the 1980s. Draw your own conclusions from it.

Those who say that Bush has a long way to go before he matches Clinton's debt increases: that graph is two years old, and over a trillion dollars out of date. Bush has a few more years, and probably a few more trillions, to go.

Those who point to the debts of other industrialised nations: pointing that out doesn't help you with your debts, does it?

Musuko.

Siro Mfume

XD

Join date: 5 Aug 2004

Posts: 747

07-17-2006 07:41

Who's gonna pay for my share of the debt that I can't pay for though?

Ghoti Nyak

καλλιστι

Join date: 7 Aug 2004

Posts: 2,078

07-17-2006 09:38

From: Al Sonic

Ghoti (shall I pronounce that "fish"?)

Yes you shall... if you want to pronounce it correctly.

From: Siro

Yes, I was looking for the oldest, yet still relevant thread I could find

Happy to provide.

Though really, I wish some miracle had happened to make this exactly opposite what it was. C'est la vie.

-Ghoti

_____________________

"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft

National Debt (Interesting graph)
Nyoko Salome kittytailmeowmeow Join date: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1,378	09-23-2005 17:37 'economists' (whoever they are, whatever degree/school/morals they have under their belt say that 'no debt is bad'... something or other to do with building credit ratings, i think i remember, as if an entire countries debt standings were equivalent with one human individual's credit rating. well, from this (indebted, still-to-make-up) individual human's perspective, it has nothing compared to the negative standing you get when you think you can think or talk your way out of the hole... you can only -earn- your way out. and the kudos go to those who can -actually- do so. (which is why clinton has such a warm spot in my, and many others hearts.) don't care 'bout inflation... don't care 'bout wise-ass degrees in economy or such-n-such... it -always- comes down to how solvent you are, period. or, at the very least, how dedicated you are to endeavoring to such. i know my very-kind landlord, so much kinder than others, is willing to take a bet on my unemployed ass, just to make up the rent i haven't been able to pay for the past two months, but that's based on his previous experience with my ability in other times of peril to make up my shortfall. i wouldn't bet one penny upon jr./roveCo. They. Don't. Care. and anybody that wanna refutes that, it's -their- responsibility to prove so. -prove it.- there, that's my throw-down for the night. not like i've got anything to lose; my string of bad luck is hard enough as it is. 'brin' it'on!' - jr., in a totally gross moment of drunken frat-boy hubris _____________________ Nyoko's Bodyoils @ Nyoko's Wears http://slurl.com/secondlife/Centaur/126/251/734/ http://home.comcast.net/~nyoko.salome2/nyokosWears/index.html "i don't spend nearly enough time on the holodeck. i should go there more often and relax." - deanna troi
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	09-24-2005 06:12 I've always said I'd like to see the debt drop, but looking at it from another perspective, our ability to pay that debt off is much better than ALOT of other countries. From: someone "US debt is 62.4% of GDP (2003), France is 68.8% of GDP (2003), Japan is 154.6% of GDP (2003), Germany 64.2% of GDP (2003), Canada 77% of GDP (2003), Egypt debt is 101.8% of GDP (2003), Greece debt is 100.9% of GDP (2003), Austria debt is 67.7% of GDP (2003), Italy debt is 106.4% of GDP (2003), even countries like Switzerland and Sweden have debt over 50% of GDP. The percentage is more important than the actual amounts (which is still quite high for many nations) because it relates directly to the nations ability to rectify the debt. The US has a substantial debt but as a percentage is in a better position to budget itself out of debt when compared to the many nations with debt 70% and the many with debt over 100% of the GDP." Man, France, Canada, Japan...what the HECK are you doing with those huge debts!!!?? You're screwed now.... stop invading "innocent" countries and maybe....oh wait.. _____________________ BTW WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
Zuzu Fassbinder Little Miss No Tomorrow Join date: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,048	09-24-2005 07:09 From: Garoad Kuroda Man, France, Canada, Japan...what the HECK are you doing with those huge debts!!!?? You're screwed now.... stop invading "innocent" countries and maybe....oh wait.. wooohoo, we can have an economy like France or Japan without all the messy spending on domestic programs. _____________________ From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	09-24-2005 07:17 But then who would scare the shit out of Jong-il??? I'm just screwing around at this point by the way, if I were seriously making an argument this sentence would likely be replaced by 5 stupid verbose paragraphs. _____________________ BTW WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
Garoad Kuroda Prophet of Muppetry Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 2,989	09-24-2005 07:31 You know what would be interesting to see though? A comparison of how much the US spends on domestic assistance type programs compared to other nations, after being adjusted for the different sized economies and such. Just looked up a list of comparative defense spending in fact. I'm not shocked to see the US near the top of the list, but what I am wondering is why FRANCE isn't too far behind in spending per person. France has military spending??? Are they contributing to the UK's defense budget or something?? UK's is pretty low comparatively in fact...something strange going on there!!! http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_tot_exp_as_of_gdp _____________________ BTW WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
Siro Mfume XD Join date: 5 Aug 2004 Posts: 747	07-16-2006 02:31 From http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ $8,420,921,003,753.29 as of this post. Edited to add: My share of that debt is more than I make yearly. How about you? Consider for a moment that the unpaid portion of my share does one of two things. 1. Is further added to the debt. or 2. Gets paid by people who make more than their share.
Alazarin Mondrian Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon Join date: 4 Apr 2005 Posts: 1,549	07-16-2006 02:57 From: Garoad Kuroda France has military spending??? Yes, actually. Check out D'Assault-Mirage. Rather good fighter planes amongst other things. And remember that over 90% of electricity in France is nuclear generated. It might help if you Americans got over your provincial chauvinism. From: Zuzu Fassbinder The last time the UK tried to make us pay-up for our wars (French & Indian war we call it) we dumped all their tea into Boston harbor, so don't even think about it. Be thankful that the Brits were a little bit more scrupulous about keeping to their side of the lend-lease agreement. From: Zuzu Fassbinder wooohoo, we can have an economy like France or Japan without all the messy spending on domestic programs. The people of a nation are part of it's wealth and future. Investing in domestic programs is investment in a nation's future. Never forget that. From: Eboni Khan The dollar in 1950 will only buy 13 cents of what the dollar of today will buy. Think about 4% inflation over 55 years. Actually you'll find that the reverse would be true. A dollar today only has the purchasing power of 13 cents in 1950. _____________________ My stuff on Meta-Life: http://tinyurl.com/ykq7nzt http://www.myspace.com/alazarinmobius http://slurl.com/secondlife/Crescent/72/98/116
Ghoti Nyak καλλιστι Join date: 7 Aug 2004 Posts: 2,078	07-16-2006 05:34 Wow, serious necroposting. -Ghoti _____________________ "Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
Al Sonic Builder Furiend Join date: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 162	Necropost indeed, but... 07-16-2006 22:33 From: someone Wow, serious necroposting. -Ghoti Yep Ghoti (shall I pronounce that "fish"?), kinda funny how it's having a sort of 'rebirth' after a little over nine months. From: Zuzu Fassbinder From: Julian Fate I notice no one said, "So George Bush lowered the debt in his first couple years in office?"</fuel on the fire> Um, not the first couple years, but, yes it did go down in 2001 from the budget apporved in 2000 under Clinton Yes, approved under Clinton after being put together by Republicans. (I just had to say it .)
Siro Mfume XD Join date: 5 Aug 2004 Posts: 747	07-16-2006 22:36 From: Ghoti Nyak Wow, serious necroposting. -Ghoti Yes, I was looking for the oldest, yet still relevant thread I could find
Tomball Freelunch Registered User Join date: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 9	07-16-2006 23:33 If you guys are into number crunching and statistical comparisons between world economies or are just curious about some information the CIA puts out in the public domain, I present: CIA World Factbook http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ If you just want to get to the 'world scoreboard' and can't be bothered to dig through the website for pertinent information, here's this: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/rankorderguide.html This page allows you to rank countries according to their public debt, GDP, military spending, etc. Enjoy!
Musuko Massiel Registered User Join date: 4 Nov 2005 Posts: 435	07-17-2006 05:02 Those who say you can't get a simple explanation out of the graph: the first poster never claimed that you could. The graph simply shows that the debt has ballooned since the 1980s. Draw your own conclusions from it. Those who say that Bush has a long way to go before he matches Clinton's debt increases: that graph is two years old, and over a trillion dollars out of date. Bush has a few more years, and probably a few more trillions, to go. Those who point to the debts of other industrialised nations: pointing that out doesn't help you with your debts, does it? Musuko.
Siro Mfume XD Join date: 5 Aug 2004 Posts: 747	07-17-2006 07:41 Who's gonna pay for my share of the debt that I can't pay for though?
Ghoti Nyak καλλιστι Join date: 7 Aug 2004 Posts: 2,078	07-17-2006 09:38 From: Al Sonic Ghoti (shall I pronounce that "fish"?) Yes you shall... if you want to pronounce it correctly. From: Siro Yes, I was looking for the oldest, yet still relevant thread I could find Happy to provide. Though really, I wish some miracle had happened to make this exactly opposite what it was. C'est la vie. -Ghoti _____________________ "Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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National Debt (Interesting graph)