Gotta hand it to Apple...

Thank you for telling me how I feel, Marcos, I appreciate it. Again, I have a problem with how Mac users act, not actually Apple.

There are also multiple operating systems, one does not have to use Windows. That is not what makes Microsoft a monopoly - it is amount of market share. Apple is facing that in the digital music market, and lo and behold, they are acting like a monopolist - refusing to license their technology or let music purchased run on anything but Apple's iPod. Apple bundles their music store with their OS, and also ties it to the iPod. You cannot use DRMed music purchased from any other online store on an iPod. The reverse is not true of competiting devices. Apple's behavior in the digital music space is no better than what people have criticized Microsoft for.

I just don't see how Apple has a monopoly. What do they have, 3% of the market for PC's? Just because they build more in-house than other computer makers do does not a monopoly make.

As for their music market, their iTMS sells music that only works on their equipment, sure. That and the DRM are annoying, so I don't use it. As an iPod owner, I still have many choices.

It never ever ceases to amaze me the irrational emotions "PC vs. Mac" flares up. From professoinal, intelligent people.

You may disagree with Apple's tactics, but that does not make it monopolistic behavior. The difference between Microsoft's desktop monopoly, where there is statistically no competition, and the digital music market, which is full of competitors, is obvious. Apples competitive advantage is the seamless integration of the hardware and software. They will not relinquish this advantage simply because a competitor wants to ride the coattails of their innovation.

Please note your phrase "competing devices."

I find that funny, because I actually avoid mentioning that I use a Mac in general public.

Because of 20 YEARS of PC users jumping down my throat about how Macs suck and OMG STUPID GAY ONE BUTTON MOUSE.

Thanks for telling me how Mac users act, I appreciate it.

Tying music you buy to a particular piece of hardware from one manufacturer is innovation? Again, I am glad that didn't happen in the CD market - it is a shame that it is happening in the online music market.

Doing it well is the innovation. And if you don't like Apple's implementation there are many, many competitors out there.

Dunno may dad is 86 and he took up e-mail in like twnety minutes. Never underestimate the power of pro foot ball cgambling to foster technological education.

AMD is still the way to go, windows or linux. And with AMD you can then afford the games.

I know lots of older people who just "don't get computers" until they see a Mac though.

When you are 65 and you're computer asks you (out of the one thousand questions a day Windows asks you), if you want to "populate your application database" (when installing a simple file), most don't know what the answer is in my experience.

Most of the older folks I know with Windows computers use Notepad as their word processor (even though MS office is installed), and primarily use this 2,000 machine to play solitaire or minesweeper. None of this is true with Apple users.

This all assumes that Windows is actually *working* also. When something goes wrong do they know what to do? No.

Grampa or Grandma needs someone to install programs for them and to trouble shoot the million little gotchas that come up. You can turn on an Apple computer, never turn it off and it wont crash likely ever. If it does crash, you turn it off and on again and the vast majority of the time it just works again. If you want to install a program, you drag one icon onto the hard drive and your done.

The user experience is definitely easier with Apple for "non computer savy" and older users. Its a fact.

That's what you pay the extra money for.

Wow, in the past 15 years of using Windows, I have never once seen a message asking me if I want to populate my application database.

Your feelings of inadequacy, jealousy, and exclusion relating to your OS/HW choice are motivating you to take a weak position, Cristiano. The forum birds have swooped down on this pile of crumbs that is your argument and are busily peck-peck-pecking away. I suggest purchasing an Apple to educate yourself on the benefits instead of rebelling against that what you perceive as a threat to your norm.

~Ulrika~

Ulrika,

That is the thing - it is a choice. I feel no inadequacy. Those who feel inadequacy put other things down as an argument for why they are better. So why do you feel the petty need to bash others who like something else? That is what i don't understand. I don't dislikes Macs. I have used them, and find I prefer Windows. I don't run around saying "uh Macs suck", but you seem to find many opportunities to bash Windows, and are always falling over yourself acting like every thing Apple does is the next coming of Christ. Apple spent years bashing Intel machines, and now that they have converted to Intel, it's a whole different song and dance.

If you feel the need to puff yourself up by putting others down, knock youself out. I am secure who I am, and the things I like or dislike. I don't feel the need to raise myself up by belittling something or someone else, something you often do by questioning their intelligence, education, etc.

Nothing in my position is weak, by the way. They are all valid criticisms, and interestingly enough, are the very things that has kept Apple having such a miniscule market share in the computer industry. I am not a fan of lock-in of any sort, I prefer choices. If I could run the MacOS on my Intel machine, I would spend more time with it - but I am not going to buy a new PC just for the privilege when the current one I have has higher specs than the newly released Macs.

We have a glossary, it's been there a long time. If something's not in it, we can add it.
SL Glossary

Your grief is understandable after that rhetorical bruising I gave you. I will now compose several more posts each with 113 characters, no more no less, that will continue to tell you how you feel about the subject in such a way, that my position will be strengthened. I will take any further replies as reinforcement of the previously mentioned coup and a cessation of replies as evidence of my soul-crushing rhetoric. Almonds and chips!

~Ulrika~

You are incorrigible. Just when I want to throw things at you, you make me laugh. I <3 Ulrika.

THE BELOW WAS SAID BY FOOLISH FROST.
SORRY, FORGOT TO LOGOUT MY WIFE... MY FAULT...

<blinks>

People....

PEOPLE...

They're tools. Nothing more, nothing less.

They are not status symbols, or friends, or pets. They are not magic devices that can think for you, or replace good-old-fashioned experience and knowledge.

They are, for lack of a better term in several decades, a 'lightning fast idiot with a pencil'...


I decided on a Mac for my portable for the following reasons:
1. It ran SL perfectly when the PC laptops were having problems with it.
2. It runs on a unix core, and the OS was low maintenence compaired to windows. (based on research from techs and users)
3. It could boot in less than 30 seconds from hitting a power switch.
4. Macs have a LOT more software than PC users are told about. Freeware and inexpensive.
5. The time using OS-X did not make me thing the interface was 'dumbed down' as much as the system streamlined. You can still get to EVERYTHING on the system if you are so inclined and know how. This took me all of a few hours to figure out.
6. I will still be using Windows for my desktop machines, since their versitility and familiarity for ME is a good thing still.


I have found that PCs are cheap and powerful, and that Macs are stable and easy-to-use. Desktops for me are for the first, and portables need to be the second.

Nuff said,
Later!

THE ABOVE WAS SAID BY FOOLISH FROST.
SORRY, FORGOT TO LOGOUT MY WIFE... MY FAULT...

Like Botany says, they're just tools. There's only so much I can go on about them.

So when can we expect a Cristiano Linden? After the Torley announcement you can't be far behind.

~Ulrika~

i read all kinds of things here where people have no clue what they are talking about, but spout it like facts... its crazy... Lets see how many i can touch...


paying for 1.83 GHz? yeah, you dont rate processors performance by the Hz, its useless, yet people still think "bigger numbers mean better" and its totally false. The new Intel Core Duo processors in the new iMac and MacBook Pro are based on the new core by intel that will be REPLACING the Pentium. A dual core Intel Core Duo 2ghz can outperform a dual core Intel Pentium-D 3.2GHz in everything. the Netburst core used in P4s are complete dogs. Intel purposly made them perform bad so they would be more stable at higher frequencies. This was done to make the numbers bigger and make people want to buy it. Intel has already announced that they will no longer make any new chip designs with the Netburst (current P4s and Xeons core) architecture. The Intel Core Duo 2GHz even gives a Athlon 64 X2 2GHz a run for its money, they are almost neck and neck, though the AMD is a bit better, mainly because it has an onboard memory controller. Even Dell is going to start shipping Intel Core Duo and Intel Core Solo processors in their laptops in a few months.

And everyone that claims Apple is extremely expensive, are using the same ten year old arguments that just are not true anymore. They are only minorly more expensive. The main problem people have comparing, is they know so little about electronics and computer hardware, and how the things actually function, that they do not make valid comparisons. Until the Mac Mini, Apple didnt even attempt to compete at the low end market.

Oh, and buying songs at the iTunes Music Store does not in any way limit your song purchase to only running on a specfic peice of hardware. You can run it on any computer you choose, iPods are not even needed. You can also burn them to audio CD right from itunes. If you really wanted you could just buy the songs you want, burn them to audio CD, then rip them from the CD with no DRM in any format you want, even WMA if it floats your boat...

oh and Apple bashed intel for years and now say they are great... yes, and they are still true. Just because its still intel, doesnt mean its exactly the same. Intel will be making great strides this year to change their image, and their processors to be extremely good with power and heat, and still perform even better. yes your GHz will be lower numbers, but that doesnt mean the computer is slower, as thats not a rating of computer speed, its a rating of frequency. There is a reason Apple has had OSX running on x86 chips for 5 years and are just now selling it. AMD is too small to promise deliveries, they barely can make enough chips a year to fill their current demands, and Intel has finally started the road to making good processors and away from that P4 trash.

How about we all get real and admit that all computers suck ass?

Macs make me frown less and they stay out of my way more, so that's why I use them. But that's just me. I can think of no better argument for my choice. I'll probably be getting a cheap Dell or something for web site testing, and I intend to find as many good things about it as I can. It's gotta be good for something.

Don't worry Cristiano. Ulrika is like every mac user-she had paid for the privlege of being smuch and fanatical about macs. Its what mac users have to do to justify all that money they spnd on thier machines. In my life i used both macs and PC with windows. And in a moment of actuall honesty if find very little to chose between them. Except that PC's are cheaper and a thousand times more easier to use.

I am not an intel fan though I like my AMD.

Um an apple 20" Imac is about 1600 bucks. I can get and equivalent AMD system with a 64 bit dual core processor for about half that. The AMD machine will also be upgradable and expandable. I can buy an AMD machine and keep my current 19" monitor, my wireless mouse and keyboard and all three hard drives. That means for me personally, for the same 800 bucks I can go PCI-express SLI, with Dual 256meg video cards, I can over clock slightky and invest in some performace ram and cooling.

If yo take the most high-end over priced PC and compare it to a mac, you can say "Oh macs aren't expensive" But if you look at the market, and see what most people can and do get, macs are very expensive.

And I tunes runs just fine on my PC's, uncer windows.

I only restart my PC once a week. If a program crashes something severe enough I'll restart too.

But I'll give ya the last part about being easier for older users. Might have to get one for my parents someday.

I have ranted about Apple for many paragraphs (although not yet here) because I hate Mac users.

Apple I just dislike for having removed so much money from me over the years for a product that is increasingly closer to what is available elsewhere for less.