A question for anyone to answer
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-28-2006 07:06
With all the stuff about child avatars and child porn going around... 1. Do you all think United States law should apply to other nations? 2. If a person breaks the United States Law in their home nation even thought they are not breaking the law at home, Should the FBI from the UNited States be allowed to go to the fictional nation and arrest the person who broke United States Law? 3. That Linden Labs should ban people for behaviour not legal in the United States but legal in the fictional peoples home nation? 4. And if you are conservative and say yes to question one... What happened to the Conservative cornerstone of National Sovereigntry? Thank you and Good Day EDIT: Since people seem to want to comment on other things, I ask that you all only answer the questions present... Go to other post to comment please  (If you answer the questions you can comment on your answers) |
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Siobhan OFlynn
Evildoer
Join date: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,140
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03-28-2006 07:07
one minute into this thread and I predict.... This Will Not End Well! 
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From: Starax Statosky Absolute freedom is heavenly. I'm sure they don't have a police force and resmods in heaven. From: pandastrong Fairplay omgeveryonegetoutofmythreadrightnowican'ttakeit From: Soleil Mirabeau I'll miss all of you assholes. 
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-28-2006 07:09
From: Siobhan OFlynn one minute into this thread and I predict.... This Will Not End Well! Never mind the Translation.... Answer the Question  |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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03-28-2006 07:11
I have a good mind to host an age play event on one sim and host a protest on the other sim as my alt...
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-28-2006 07:17
From: Magnum Serpentine 1. Do you all think United States law should apply to other nations?
2. If a person breaks the United States Law in their home nation even thought they are not breaking the law at home, Should the FBI from the UNited States be allowed to go to the fictional nation and arrest the person who broke United States Law?
3. That Linden Labs should ban people for behaviour not legal in the United States but legal in the fictional peoples home nation?
4. And if you are conservative and say yes to question one... What happened to the Conservative cornerstone of National Sovereigntry? 1) In general, no. It's worth pointing out, however, that SL is run by an American company, and IS subject to American laws. 2) If their transgression is being done in America, such as on American webservers, we have international laws to cover exactly this sort of thing, and no, their non-American status should not be a blanket Escape Consequences card. The crime is being commited "on American soil", virtual soil though it may be. 3) Yes. From a legal CYA perspective, if for no other reason. 4) More circuits blowing?
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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03-28-2006 07:43
From: Siobhan OFlynn one minute into this thread and I predict.... This Will Not End Well!
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"People can cry much easier than they can change."
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-28-2006 08:31
From: Reitsuki Kojima 1) In general, no. It's worth pointing out, however, that SL is run by an American company, and IS subject to American laws.
2) If their transgression is being done in America, such as on American webservers, we have international laws to cover exactly this sort of thing, and no, their non-American status should not be a blanket Escape Consequences card. The crime is being commited "on American soil", virtual soil though it may be.
3) Yes. From a legal CYA perspective, if for no other reason.
4) More circuits blowing? And I counter by reminding you that even thought the server is on American Server it is an international internet and tribal laws should not apply |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-28-2006 08:41
From: Magnum Serpentine And I counter by reminding you that even thought the server is on American Server it is an international internet and tribal laws should not apply That's not something you "remind" a person of. That's entierly your opinion. The server is in America. What goes on on the server goes on in America. If something is illegal in America, it cannot legaly be hosted on a server hosted in America. These are not the mythical intarwebs that don't have any physicality. The internet is not a philisophical constant. Its a physical thing, constrained by laws and political boundries just like anything else.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Siobhan OFlynn
Evildoer
Join date: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,140
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03-28-2006 08:42
From: Mulch Ennui I have a good mind to host an age play event on one sim and host a protest on the other sim as my alt... Please send invites to my main av for the protest and to my alt for the age play event 
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From: Starax Statosky Absolute freedom is heavenly. I'm sure they don't have a police force and resmods in heaven. From: pandastrong Fairplay omgeveryonegetoutofmythreadrightnowican'ttakeit From: Soleil Mirabeau I'll miss all of you assholes.
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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03-28-2006 08:42
From: Reitsuki Kojima That's not something you "remind" a person of.
That's entierly your opinion.
The server is in America. What goes on on the server goes on in America. If something is illegal in America, it cannot legaly be hosted on a server hosted in America.
These are not the mythical intarwebs that don't have any physicality. The internet is not a philisophical constant. Its a physical thing, constrained by laws and political boundries just like anything else. then explain offshore betting!
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-28-2006 08:48
From: Mulch Ennui then explain offshore betting! A perfect example of what I'm talking about, actually. Since it's taking place in an area where (as I understand it) betting is legal, the fact that it's illegal in America isn't particularly relevent. Now, my opinions on THOSE laws is another story entierly.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-28-2006 09:48
From: Siobhan OFlynn Please send invites to my main av for the protest and to my alt for the age play event She's already got the perfect avie....I have pictures and they are disgusting I tell you!  
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway
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Toni Bentham
M2 Fashion Editor
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 560
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03-28-2006 10:07
From: Reitsuki Kojima The server is in America. What goes on on the server goes on in America. Although if the server were in Vegas, what happened would stay in Vegas.
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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03-28-2006 10:18
From: Reitsuki Kojima A perfect example of what I'm talking about, actually. Since it's taking place in an area where (as I understand it) betting is legal, the fact that it's illegal in America isn't particularly relevent.
Now, my opinions on THOSE laws is another story entierly. Even though I agree with your argument in a technical sense, I think LL could go a lot further towards trying to "internationalise" the rules. Obviously they can't and probably shouldn't allow child porn just cause it might be legal in some odd little country, but they should "go with the majority" in the sense that US law is often quite out of step with the rest of the Western World. I mean if it really is a metaverse, and if the Internet truly is international, to always go with the very conservative local laws of the Unied States, (especially on piffling issues like nudity and culturally specific ones like Nazi iconography), always struck me as a foolish approach to take. Isn't one of the goals of the metaverse to rise above such cultural parochialism? |
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Siobhan OFlynn
Evildoer
Join date: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,140
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03-28-2006 10:28
You photographed our ageplay? You PERVERT! I'm reporting you
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From: Starax Statosky Absolute freedom is heavenly. I'm sure they don't have a police force and resmods in heaven. From: pandastrong Fairplay omgeveryonegetoutofmythreadrightnowican'ttakeit From: Soleil Mirabeau I'll miss all of you assholes.
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-28-2006 10:31
From: Siobhan OFlynn You photographed our ageplay? You PERVERT! I'm reporting you Yes, I need ammunition for my argument silly. You just conveniently were doing it in front of me!!! Not to mention upskirting me!
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway
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Siobhan OFlynn
Evildoer
Join date: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,140
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03-28-2006 10:35
From: Sally Rosebud Yes, I need ammunition for my argument silly. You just conveniently were doing it in front of me!!! Not to mention upskirting me! From: someone Taco Rubio: wtf is upskirt?
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From: Starax Statosky Absolute freedom is heavenly. I'm sure they don't have a police force and resmods in heaven. From: pandastrong Fairplay omgeveryonegetoutofmythreadrightnowican'ttakeit From: Soleil Mirabeau I'll miss all of you assholes.
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Creami Cannoli
Please don't eat me....
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 414
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03-28-2006 10:36
From: Sally Rosebud Yes, I need ammunition for my argument silly. You just conveniently were doing it in front of me!!! Not to mention upskirting me! Waitttt a seccccc.....Sally is cheating on Lec with a minor? THE OUTRAGE!! |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-28-2006 10:37
From: Creami Cannoli Waitttt a seccccc.....Sally is cheating on Lec with a minor? THE OUTRAGE!! No, this is the outrage, he was watching!!!
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-28-2006 13:22
From: Reitsuki Kojima That's not something you "remind" a person of.
That's entierly your opinion.
The server is in America. What goes on on the server goes on in America. If something is illegal in America, it cannot legaly be hosted on a server hosted in America.
These are not the mythical intarwebs that don't have any physicality. The internet is not a philisophical constant. Its a physical thing, constrained by laws and political boundries just like anything else. Well the US Dictatorship may think so but if Germany says no you cannot extradite a citizen of that nation... Then what are they going to do? The Internet is internationa. No laws apply. |
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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03-28-2006 13:26
From: Magnum Serpentine Well the US Dictatorship may think so but if Germany says no you cannot extradite a citizen of that nation... Then what are they going to do? .
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From: Torley Linden We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication. 
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-28-2006 14:07
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway
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Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
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03-28-2006 14:11
I don't think US law should apply to other nations.
The US authorities should not be allowed to go into a nation and arrest a person who broke United States Law while that person was in his/her home nation. If a person broke a US law while on US territory, the US authorities should be able go into that nation and arrest that person.
Linden Lab has rules about how residents should behave in the nation of Second Life. Those who break the rules should be banned, regardless of whether or not the behavior is legal in that person's nation or not.
Thank you and Good Day
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-28-2006 14:21
From: Magnum Serpentine The Internet is internationa. No laws apply. Laws absolutely apply, no matter how much you may wish otherwise. Enforcement is another story. Repated denial of reality does not make fantasy fact.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-28-2006 14:33
From: Reitsuki Kojima Laws absolutely apply, no matter how much you may wish otherwise. Enforcement is another story.
Repated denial of reality does not make fantasy fact. I am not kidding. The Internet is International and no one country can control it. |