Guantanamo - Three inmates kill themselves

I refer you to post 4:



Invoking Godwin suggests that any rules will be followed whatsoever. Since we are discussing a government that wants no part of rules, you can stick Godwin up your ass.

No, that's a complete mischaracterization of what the administration is saying -- they are saying that IN SPITE of the non-status of these non-uniformed killers, we are still giving them the same consideration we would give POWs under the Geneva Convention. Even though they don't deserve it.


Please let me know how many POWs were given trial by jury during WW2. Get back to me on that.



Suicide may be the "natural" thing for sociopathic hate-mongers to do, but I don't recall American POWs doing it in Vietnam or the Gulf War -- nor POWs of any side in WW2. Not as any kind of aberrational statistic anyway.

I think you're reaching, and you really don't have your facts straight on what the Geneva protocols really do cover. Don't let it stop you from feeling sorry for people who really, truly, would do anything they could to end your life.

How do you know this? You don't. You don't even know who these people are, because we have not documented or even accused them of crimes!

Ok, enlighten me here on 'how it matters quite a bit'. K? thx.

Briana Dawson

I don't know that they are murders and terrorists?

You are right Ananda, the people held in Gauntanamo are really law abiding taliban citizens of Afghanistan wrongfully jailed.... not.

Briana Dawson

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If they are unrepentant murders then America can fix this situation! Charge them with murder and lock them up legally. Whether we want to or not it is wrong to lock people up without trial, based on what they might be thinking or might do. Isn't that the sort of thing that the rogue countries we're fighting against did?

The only defence I'm seeing of this is some sort of emotional blackmail, and having read your arguments before, this ones a bit weak!

It is very difficult to comment on this without being extremely insulting, so I will just keep quiet.

You're continuing to want it both ways. POWs in WWII were either tried and convicted of war crimes, or released without trial at the end of hostilies. Which is it going to be here? And when will "hostilities" be declared over in an undeclared war? We have installed governments in both Afganistan and Iraq now. Any "hostilities" going on now are being perpetrated by criminals, not soldiers.

To have any credibility at all, we must accuse these people of documented crimes or release them.

When I read comments like this I begin to suspect that America is suffering from some weird malady.

These are not criminals. They have not been tried.

As you may have forgotten, most criminals are tried before they are punished. Your comments seem to imply that all Arabs should be imprisoned. If that is what you really think, then there is no hope for you.

War as defined by who?

Well, I am sure they would now.

Actually, yea...it sounds like a pretty easy life over there. Why don't you swap places with them?

Briana.... you are republican no? Cause I know plenty who are criminals so you must be too. And democrats... and Americans.. christians.. you name it.

If being part of a group that commits crimes, even if it's the groups agenda you don't become guilty by being part of the group but rather by the crimes YOU commit, not the group.

It's those crimes that have not been identified.

If this is war, why are we still playing softball, going to the mall and playing MMO's .. should we all be over there putting a stop to it?

A stop to what? You ate the kool-aid packet.

I am going to leave this thread and not come back.

But before I go I will say (the thread having already been Godwined) that the comments some people have made on here (which, I have to say I find absolutely abhorrent and disgusting) in terms of calling untried prisoners criminals, of calling whole groups of people crimnals, of being blind to the inhumanity and injustice of what is being done in their name, remind me very much of some of the comments made by many Germans during WW2.

I have always liked Americans, but I am finding that I am wondering more and more what you are becoming.

"Yes. Three square meals a day paid for by American taxpayers, a free Koran and a prayer rug, plenty of water for showers and reading materials to pass their time. A "fate worse than death". ~sigh~"

Freedom means more than any conveniences. I would have expected an American, of all people, to know that.

"WTF are you talking about, "poor souls". These people are murders and terrorists."

What proof do you have that they were murderers and terrorists? And if there is such proof, why have they not been charged and brought to trial?

"You are right Ananda, the people held in Gauntanamo are really law abiding taliban citizens of Afghanistan wrongfully jailed.... not."

Some, at the very least, were British. And as I recall, when they were finally released back to Britain, the British police found no reason to hold them for any charges and simply released them.

Musuko.

They were captured during combat operations carrying weapons. That means they're not common criminals, they're combatants. If you can't tell the difference, then there's no hope for you either


Because the closest I've come to planning terrorist attacks was the last time the local Gap had an early morning clothing sale. I haven't associated with al Qaeda and I don't carry guns.

I'm sorry to see these are the best arguments anyone can offer against holding enemy terrorists under armed guard. Well, no actually, I'm not sorry -- I expected it. It gives new meaning to the time-worn phrase "bleeding heart". Personally, I'd rather feel sorry for Charles Manson. At least he's certifiably insane.

"They were captured during combat operations carrying weapons. That means they're not common criminals, they're combatants."

Afghanistan, like America, allows civilian gun ownership. And the country only because a warzone because we invaded.

Musuko.

I'm currently working on getting to Canada myself. G-bye Selador and thanks for trying to get some healthy ideas over without insulting or belittle Americans.

I have no such qualm so I will say that Americans pretty much believe what they see on TV and the ideas they are "sold" on TV. Advertising is the strongest force next to religion. Most American ideas are truly corporate or holy ideas with little room for original ideas.

I'm sure the few of us who are left who don't think that way will be eventually gotten rid of, we already can't open our mouths if we are a little different, and situations like this make it more and more possible to silence anyone who is "different".

With the latest monitoring of Americans, there was a direct target to target groups like Peta and other such "how the hell is this terrorist related" ideas.

What people forget is that W lost the popular vote. That means that over 50 percent of the US don't like/want him. In 2008 (unless impeachment happens) we will start over and never never forget the oppression and prejudice that came of this time.

However remembering (or did we) the oppression of the holocaust and of the early (and current) south has done little to stop this.

I spit on all supposed "god lovers" who feel that "oh just kill and jail them all" while the other side is thinking the same. I wish there was a place for secular people to live out of the fire fight of the religious so that they may kill each other off.

It's easy to "save the soul" of your quiet neighbor who does no wrong. What can you do about the dead bodies there... celebrate?

You all sicken me. This is a sad sad time for America.

I assume you think my comment was only refering to this particular thread. As opposed to in general.

The fact that we wage indefinite wars on simple congressional resolution (or even without one) instead formally declaring war is a signicant issue. This was a serious debate during Vietnam - leading , eventually to the War Powers Act in 1973.

As far as this current conflict - there are many who believe the fact that the US has not delcared war on Afghanistan led to this very issue. Since in a delcared war all these detainees would have had to been declared Prisoners of War by International Law.

Not all agree, of course, the whole matter of the US engaging in prolonged armed conflicts without a legal state of War is an important one , not only for the US , but for the World.

And all those young american boys caught in Afghanistan with guns? We call them savages for killing us while we have guns.

You are so full of kool-aid, you just swallow the very ideas that Bush and such want you to think to keep you passive, shopping and proud of your country.

You are a typical America.... god bless america.

One nation under god (added in 1950)

You obviously missed the part about "uniformed combatants acting as part of an organized state military, acting according to the accepted rules of warfare". Do you actually think you're offering an argument of any merit with that?


Ah, ok, you answered my question for me. By stereotyping and attempting to insult you think you've made a point. Ignore the facts at hand, ignore any kind of reasoning and just go for the sweeping generalizations, right?

Dismissed. Please don't try again, that was so embarrassing for you.


Aside from the ridiculous Godwinizing, since when are POWs entitled to a trial? And if POWs aren't entitled to it (which they're not) why would that automatically extend to non-uniformed terrorists? Since you've left the thread, I'll answer for you: it does not. They have no right to trial. They are not American citizens, they were not uniformed combatants. Despite that, they are being fed, sheltered, receive medical treatment and visits from the Red Cross. Oh the horror.

You say "typical America" as if that is something to be ashamed of. Passive was the Democrat response to the first WTC bombing, the Khobar Towers bombing, the USS Cole bombing, the bombing of two US embassies.

Our reaction has been quite agressive, you'll note.

Shopping is what keeps middle America employed and pays the taxes that keeps illegal immigrants in medical care, public and private education, and subsidized housing.

Proud of my country? Damn right I am. If you're not, maybe it's time to look for a new country.

-Kiamat Dusk
...oh, and God bless Cindy, too...

oh! oh it's OFFICIAL war.. well.. THAT's ok then.

Cindy you can't be calm and quiet and pull that off as "a more sane mind". Frankly if you are not outraged you are, in fact, very sick.

I'm very sorry that you feel you have to "dismiss" my arguments... it's what you've been doing from the get-go.

The amount of people who died in the WTC is now being matched by the number of troops. You can keep trying to explain away the minor details but you'll never get your brain around the big picture. Good luck Cindy.. you'll need it.

It's easy to love your country when you are part of the majority Kiamat. "Liberty for all" is also supposed to apply to.. well all.

I do look for a new country.... but that can also mean changing the one I'm in.

3 people held without charged kill themselves..... hearing what I heard here in this forum I am ashamed. I feel the reaction is typical. So yes I call it a typical American reaction. I certainly don't consider it right.

Americans have no AWARENESS of human life so they CAN'T have respect for it. What's 3 people compared to all the people dead in the WTC? So it's ok to kill all those people (including innocent ones).

But I'm am at fault for trying to change minds. I can't.