"U.S. cannot defeat China in a War"

Mutually Assured Destruction.

Nuclear bombs are the greatest peace keepers.

But my bomb is bigger than your bomb.

Trying to figure out the point of this thread... ok... we can't beat em... a hypothesis... so what... they can't beat us either... another hypothesis... so what?

btw... same thing was true about the USSR... the wall still came down with no help from the libs

Yawns

This whole thing makes for a light-hearted example of the Third Party law - that for any conflict to continue without resolution there must be a third influence holding it in place.

To wit:

Japan wants an army

Perhaps this motivated the speech in the first place? It's not about America - it's about Japan wanting the right to protect itself from China - or more likely North Korea.

"could kill indirectly far more Americans than a nuclear weapon detonated in our most populous city"

and

"a compromise that potentially could be devastating if the United States enters a conflict with China"

You have to be kidding me. Here is a made up war for you. India, China, Russia Vs. Pakistan, USA, and U.K.. I see two situations here:

1. We blow up the world and wipe out the human race with nukes.
2. Nukes are somehow avoided, while 4/5 of the world population out-manufacture, out-think, and out-fight us. Granted their force won't be as well armed, but if I'm sitting in a fox hole, I think that being outnumbered at least 100-1 even against people with pitch forks will end in my death. Ecspecially if I'm holding one of the worst combat weapons around named the M-16. Maybe with at least an AK-47 or better yet a M-14 I might have some chance if I have lots of ammo and supplies. Ammo and supplies have already been bled thin though. It is going to be rough. Not to mention India is becoming a very intelligent country, I'm sure they can out do a country that comes up with stupid ideas like the Bradley. With the technology Russia and China have to build upon as a base with the scientific minds of India we could be in trouble. Pakistan would be our instant ally with India as our enemy, and while I believe they are extremely well disciplined, well trained, and highly motivated soldiers; I do not think them as an ally will be enough to win this imaginary war. The Brittish impress me in their elite units, but the small amount of men England, U.S., and Pakistan would be able to bring against such a large fighting force would still not likely be enough since there is a good possibility that our industry and technology could be matched against countries that are not inexperienced at combat. You could add the powerhouse Israel to the equation, but then most of the Middle East would join in the cause against us, and again the bonus does not outweight the sheer numbers, manufacturing capabilities, and technological potential of just Russia, China, and India put together. We would most likely be in a war where we were out numbered, out manufactured, and out done in technology by the end. We could strike some devastating blows in the begining, but in the long run; we would lose just like Germany lost.

You are insane if you think America will be able to win any war.

P.S. I'm not implying a war like this will happen, as I doubt India, China, and Russia will become allies against the U.S., but I'm just trying to point out the fact that America is not impossible to beat.

I don't know. In my opinion, I think even Russia, India, and China allied against us could over power us and all our remaining allies. The fact that they are not too far behind on technology when you combine them together, the fact that they have 4/5 of the world's population, and the fact that they can obviously out produce us; I think they would easily wipe America out if they so desired to work together for such a cause. I'm also slowly losing faith in the true quality of American weaponry. We are superior in the air and the sea. Our tanks are some of the best in the world along with our ground missle capability, but our infanty is almost as far behind as Russia is. We are using very slow out dated computers, stupid mistakes like the Bradley vehicle, horrible mistakes like the M-16 which is a toy gun compared to the older M-14. All the other technological superiorities let us win in the short run, but the long run war is only won by grunts on the ground occupying the land. Tanks can not hold ground alone, and our infantry sucks. I say this coming from the infantry. Even when we do mock battles between U.S. units, the unit using enemy tactics is always the unit that wins, because American tactics being used by conventional units just don't work against a well trained opponent. America would not be impossible to overcome, ecspecially with most of our fighting forces spread all over the world. We may control the world, but what good is that if anyone that has the capability to overcome the ocean can destroy our home country. It scares me how vulnerable I think the U.S. would be if just against a few foreign countries allied together.

I think 9/11 showed you do not have to be a major military power to cause damage. What is worrying is not the military might of the states, but the obvious pride in it. All that money spent on the military...well that's heading off at a tangent I guess.

I've been to Japan to do training with the small Army they have always been allowed to have under American supervision. I find it funny that all their equipment is far better than ours. Where we are showing them that we are using hand wrenches to adjust time fuses on Mortars, they are showing us they can do that but also have a computer that automaticall sets all the time fuses with a tap of the round on the computer. Their rifles are better, and pretty much every other peice of equipment I saw was better. The Japanese I've talked to though take pride in the fact that their country is now a peaceful country. They have this weird mentality that views us as a former worthy opponent without really seeming to be angry at us. I don't know if it is the way they are told to act, as I know we were instructed never to mention the nuclear bombs used in the war, but they seem oddly friendly so shortly after such a high casualty war. The civilians even participate in a program to take us into their homes and prepare a meal for us in groups of 2-3. I never encountered a family that wanted to spout anger at me for the war, they all simply seem highly interested in being good hosts and are highly curious what life is like across the ocean. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't fear Japan as a future enemy.

I find it hard to read things like this and take them seriously. Do you really make assessments in your mind that way?

And why the shock at the hospitality?

*wonders of confused*

The USA can't even secure Iraq.

The USA lost in Korea, lost in Viet Nam and they will undoubtedly lose in Iraq.

China has WMD's and they know how to use them. You think the insurgency in Iraq was bad? Don't underestimate commie fanaticism.

ahem!!!!!!

Well the hospitality was not a shock in itself. I know that is part of their culture that America lacks. The one on one conversations are what is shocking. A few American soldiers despite the briefing would get angry when drunk about the fact that their grandfather died in WWII. The Japanese in one-on-one conversations seemed to describe the thing more as a battle fought between two skillful oppents where America won in the end. This wasn't meant to be a serious analysis, and I'm not even sure how I can put in words what I'm trying to say. The mentality I personally believed I observed while in Japan is not a mentality of people who are going to strike at us in revenge. I assume someone worried about Japan having an army is worried about revenge. I'm no expert, but in my small limited scope of a view, I don't think I saw evidence of that mentality being there.

This is a forum for a virtual world. It is not like I'm an expert trying to give proof about the facts. I'm just one person sharing my experience, no matter how incorrect my views turn out to be.

It just find it amazing that anyone would even consider Japanese people would want revenge.

c'mon

the US is the only country that used nukes in anger

Im pissed at the US for that, and I am an "American" and wasn't even born yet

for Japan to not care is beyond my belief

I am a Christian and believe in forgiveness and all, but come on, even after those who were immediatly incinerated, Radiation Poisoning is the gift that kept on giving

I am disgusted and appalled, even more than half a century later, and I am so white I am almost transparent

i give the Japanese far more credit than to just a simple fahgetaboutit

Then I as a Brit, I should be weary of the Germans after the WW's, France and Spain after countless wars, and half the world after British Colonial Occupation

What causes most of the problems in the world is lack of communication and fear. Hopefully Dark's post will help others who have similar suspicions that others have ill intent to realise it's simply not the case.

i'm just sayin, if a state dropped a nuke in a civilian area in my hometown, i might forgive but forgetting is a bit of a stretch

and Germany in WW2 was defeated by far more than the Britain

and they weren't nuked

this is going waaaaaay off topic anyway, on this train of thought

I could go off on 10,000 tangents relating to Germany in WW2 and why they are the way they are today and how they represent what happened to them today vs then

same with Japan

but still, dropping fat man and little boy changed the world

to totally ignore the effects and ramifications takes far more forgiveness and short sightedness than I would have, personally

Yes it did change the world. But would you be more pissed if your grandfather was killed by one of those bombs rather than a conventional one? How about the carpet bombing of places like Dresden that the Brits were responsible for? Or the bombing of London? I doubt it. If every nation was pissed at every other nation for what happened 60 years ago, we are well and truly fucked, period.

i agree

but then again, splitting the atom is a totally different story, especially if you (our your ancestors were a civilain) were the victim

the US knew exactly what they were doing, this was no accident

we are taking this thread off topic, because I never even mentioned internment camps (and I have met and interviewed survivors of that)

stick with China vs the US, the variables on this line of thought

ahem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is on topic fo sho

Well I guess my initial opint was completely missed then

initial point?

???

Initial point, not initial post. *sigh*

One major problem

Our Military industry is outsourced to India and you guessed it... China.

Also, the people of the nation, have to be willing to uphold the values of George the Second and according

to the

latest polls,

only 30% of the nation would be willing to do so.


Yes, we have a good outsourced economy.

Our nation does not even produce steel... It is outsourced.


Wonder if George the Second can win with an outsourced army.

One remembers the later Caesars hiring huns to be the army of the empire.

One also remembers that when Western Roman Empire fell, the view of the day was

ho-hum. And they continued their lives under a new government.

oh, i see, initial pint



I bitch about the mteric system all the time, but a pint is better than a cup any day!