Christianity is Criminal

It doesn't seem like you are focusing on all the victims, but criticizing the Jewish victims. The Jews don't talk about the holocaust as if they were the only victims. Go visit the US or Israeli holocaust museums. And the idea that focusing on one group diminishes anything is absurd. That's like telling one rape victim she shouldn't talk about her experience because it diminishes the crimes the rapist committed against others. That's silly.

And it has nothing to do with Zionism.

Wrong, its about the death of 12 million people.
How am I critisizing any victims of the holocaust.
I am simply critisizing selective politicisation of the Holocaust by some individuals.
I despise people who deny the Holocaust such as neo nazis.
I,m also against the depiction of the holocaust as being "about jews".
Yes that was part of it, but its far bigger than the genocide of the jews.
And maybe as you say, it has nothing to do with Zionism, but when the general public opinion of the Holocaust is it was simply to to do with jews, it seems to me to help bolster the Zionist position in Israel.

Have I explained myself more clearly now?

Of course the holocaust was about Jews. Do you think that this was the first time that some nut tried to exterminate all Jews? It has been happening over and over again for the past 2000 years. Gypsys, the handicapped, and a few other groups were also targeted but I doubt if they were Hitler's number one priority. They were more like a incidental sideline.

Hitler created Zionism and I hope he is rolling in his grave.

Actually, 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' predates Hitler. IIRC, it was penned to support a pogrom in Russia. Bit of propaganda that still makes the rounds and convinces the brainless to hate.

(edited to add) I'm too sleepy to post. Your point was 'Hitler created Jewish nationalism', and that one I won't argue (although I'd point out that giving Hitler sole credit does ignore some less-spectacular but just as soulless and vile governments that were his contemporaries and near-contemporaries).

If that is true, it's mainly because we rarely have more than two children and half of them are mischlingen. Only the Haridim have large families and they are pretty worthless in the long run, outside of being total archaic nuisances.

The Holocaust was about Jews. If I'm sent to an extermination camp it's about ME. If you're sent to one, it's about YOU. It's also about US. My talking about my experience in no way detracts, prevents or handicaps you talking about yours. And it's great when we talk about OUR experiences.

And besides, this thread was about religions killing off religions. Christians trying to exterminate Jews in the early 20th century is a prime example of that. So talking about the Jewish victims of the Holocaust was perfectly appropriate in this context.

I have no idea what you mean about the "Zionist position in Israel," but it sounds like you don't like it.

As for the other nonsense about Zionism, Hitler didn't create it. The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are anti-Jewish propaganda, and aren't about Zionism at all. Theordore Herzl is usually viewed as the founder of political Zionism; he published his first essay on Zionism in 1896, long before Hitler.

Maybe they are moving towards the 21st Century. Make what you want of this.

Are you bashing Catholicism because Hitler was a Catholic?

Yeah, he was baptized Catholic, but so were many other murderous despots throughout history.

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains," -- Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," -- Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

Thank you Michael, your text which i have bolded was all I wanted to hear.
As to the threads original topic, I agree it was relevant, But Introverts point about the greater scope of the Holocaust was I feel, a valid one, albeit a side issue to the main thread. Perhaps its a discussion for another thread, but it arose here, thats the nature of forum discussions, they meander.
I agree entirely on what you say about Zionism, when I mention it, I'm talking about the modern political philosophy, not bullshit dreamed up by Russian anti semites.
My stance regarding modern Hard line Zionism, is that it is just as much of a hurdle for peace in Israel and the occupied territorries, as Palestinian hardliners such as Hamas, so yes when you stated earlier I dont like it, you were correct. I actually stand pretty much with Noam Choamskys views on Israel.....
I'm all for a Jewish homeland, but not a Jewish state.
Id rather see an Israel shared by Jew and Palestinian on an equal basis.

That was a bit that I left out of my original post, but I think it partially explains some of the motivation behind the "division by two".

The Zionism movement (the desire to create a Jewish "homeland" long predates Hitler's birth and has always been a secular and religious and seculo-religious movement. To call it a "movement" is a bit of a misnomer as even amongst people who called themselves Zionists, there was a great deal of debate and factionalism even to the degree that some Zionists thought that the establishment of Israel was a Good Thing and others who saw it as a potentially harmful nationalistic movement. And as you mention, the Holocaust (as distinct from the Nazi genocide) likely did galvanize world opinion into the post-War U.N. partitioning of Palestine and gave it the "memetic inertia" that would probably cause a random world citizen to first answer "6 million" to the question of "how many people died at the hands of the Nazi regime?".

That is the extent of my knowledge of the situation, but I believe that the "6 million" number was likely critical as used to support the arguments of the - for lack of a better term - "territorial Zionists". Again, I must be careful to note that I can't say that it was the causal factor, but I do think it contributed. And I must also say that I really don't have an opinion about whether the establishment of Israel was a good or a bad thing, but can note that the mere stroke of a pen partitioning of Palestine by the U.N. General Assembly in 1947 was far from all that it took to establish the nation; to my eye at least, the recognition only gave the Isrealis permission to fight for what had been granted them on paper.

I went looking for One of Eric Hoffer's aphorisms that said essentially that and stumbled upon the aproposplease understand that Hoffer was trying to understand and explain mass movements so out of context this passage may be seen as advocacy when it was actually the thoughts of a student of humanity who was strongly anti-Nazi. But these were the aphorisms I was looking for:Hoffer was a hell of a keen observer and incisive thinker.

Thank you for being far more eloquent than I , Mr Petunia

No bashing intended. Germany was nearly half Protestant and half Catholic at the time. Both branches of Christianity in Germany have culpability in the genocide. The Vatican's political support for fascism in Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary and Croatia at the time would be the subject of a different thread. The point I was trying to make was that Christians, both Protestants and Catholics, murdered Jews.