In the tradition of "Ask Jake," but founded by the needs of the people rather than the needs of the teacher (although that is nice too), I present Ulrika's School of Imperative Warfare, Fool!
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Ulrika's School of Imperative Warfare, Fool! |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-14-2005 16:56
Ulrika sits in a throne of scathing grammar that puts the Grumpy Martha Brockenbroughs of the world to shame. Sure, we could actually look this stuff up for ourselves... but then where would get our daily allotment of razor-edge sarcasm that is required to straighten up our snarks? A lesson without the pain of humiliation is a lesson that will soon be forgotten, and I can think of no one better suited to head the dojo than Ulrika.
In the tradition of "Ask Jake," but founded by the needs of the people rather than the needs of the teacher (although that is nice too), I present Ulrika's School of Imperative Warfare, Fool! _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-14-2005 16:56
Teacher, what is the difference between "who" and "whom?"
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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The Master in Battle
12-14-2005 17:13
Archived:
(It's scary when you can discuss the grammatical limitations of the American Heritage Dictionary.) Verbs have mood, tense, and voice.
Adding in conjugations a single verb can have hundreds of forms, of which only the single root is listed in the dictionary. Thus to avoid lauching into a discussion of advanced grammar, dictionaries phrase these complexities in terms of definitions.  In regards to our discussion, one would say that the modal verb "may" has two subjunctive forms, the casual and the formal. In casual usage, one may (expressing permission) use "may" for "might". Those who write formaly or exactingly would instead use the correct form "might". Because the indicative and casual subjunctive form of "may" are identical, I would simply avoid the casual form in writing. Here's an example of the ambiguity. He may leave. (Does he have permission or is he thinking of leaving?) He might leave. (He clearly is thinking of leaving.) _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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12-14-2005 17:37
whom is the objective case of who. its sort of archaic. But it is properly used when you are asking a question and as a relative. It is the object of a verb preceding a preposition and the object of a verb that follows a preposition. I have always thought you use whom when you are doingsoemthing ans who when someone else is doing something, but thats not exactly it. technically, as with affect and effect there is some overlap.
Making real sense of the above. Whom is used preceding a preposition, and more commonly used following a preposition. Who is used in all other cases, except when it is not. Thus "who did this with you"? is proper and so is "with whom did you do this?" "Who is it ?" is proper. "Whom is it?" is not. "The person to whom you spoke is proper", and of course you can always "ask for whom the bell tolls." _____________________
ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209 |
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Paolo Portocarrero
Puritanical Hedonist
Join date: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 2,393
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12-14-2005 18:05
Chance is my new hero.
 Which is correct? Apropos: a) by the way b) suitable c) both Give up? Easy as cake! _____________________
Facades by Paolo - Photo-Realistic Skins for Doods
> Flagship store, Santo Paolo's Lofts & Boutiques > SLBoutique |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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12-14-2005 19:10
Teacher, what is the difference between "who" and "whom?" Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee! _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-14-2005 19:12
Teacher, what is the difference between thou and thee?
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Euterpe Roo
The millionth monkey
Join date: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,395
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12-14-2005 19:44
Teacher, what is the difference between thou and thee? 'Thou' is the pronoun [and playing short-stop]. 'Thee' is the objective case of the same pronoun (objective pronouns are used as objects--direct objects, indirect objects, objects of prepositions). Though it was not asked, 'thine' is the possessive case of 'thou.' This covers the who/whom problem mentioned above ('who' is nominative or subjective [and on first] while 'whom' is objective). <is deeply saddened that she was not asked to opine> Oh, and <sobs>  _____________________
"Of course, you'd also have to mention . . . furries, Sith Lords, cyberpunks, glowing balls of gaseous neon fumes, and walking foodstuffs" --Cory Edo
“One man developed a romantic attachment to a tractor, even giving it a name and writing poetry in its honor." MSN "  next week: the .5m torus of "I ate a yummy sandwich and I'm sleepy now"" Desmond Shang |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-15-2005 07:40
<is deeply saddened that she was not asked to opine> Oh, and <sobs> You're too polite. I want someone to give it to me like in prison so I'll remember. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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12-15-2005 08:14
No question at the moment, but God, do I love the title of this thread. Heh.
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Broadly offensive. |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-15-2005 08:28
'Thou' is the pronoun [and playing short-stop]. 'Thee' is the objective case of the same pronoun (objective pronouns are used as objects--direct objects, indirect objects, objects of prepositions). Though it was not asked, 'thine' is the possessive case of 'thou.' This covers the who/whom problem mentioned above ('who' is nominative or subjective [and on first] while 'whom' is objective). Will you please use thou and thee in the same sentence? Can you say "thous?" _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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12-15-2005 08:36
Zounds! Why didst Thou take Thine codpiece to Thee?
Just guessin. _____________________
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Broadly offensive. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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12-15-2005 08:36
Will you please use thou and thee in the same sentence? Can you say "thous?" Thou are the most loyal of subjects, and unto thee is bestowed the glory of knighthood. |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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12-15-2005 08:41
I think mine was more fun.
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Broadly offensive. |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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12-15-2005 08:52
Zounds! I love that word, especially because of its etymology. _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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12-15-2005 08:58
Supplement Euterpe's wonderful post. (Since when do you need to be asked to comment on the forums? Really Ask Jake is the only place where naked comments are not allowed, and even then you can say anything as long as at some point you give me a question. You are loved here, and we vbalue your opinions on every topic).
Actually, in usage terms, Thou was classically an intimate term, and thee a formal term. The implication in the king james bible being that gods resltionship with man was intimate. It has subsequently, by way of the authoritarin nature of chirstianity and its interpretation of the biblical text, become somewhat reversed in the general Ken. _____________________
ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209 |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-15-2005 09:23
Can you say "thous" for possessive? Oh... that'd be thine, wouldn't it? What if you're in Boston?
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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12-15-2005 09:33
Can you say "thous" for possessive? Oh... that'd be thine, wouldn't it? What if you're in Boston? wait, is it thous or thoust? _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-15-2005 09:43
I'm so thoued out with this thouetry.
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-25-2005 16:36
If I were a Linden... Am I the last person alive who knows the subjunctive mood?  ~Ulrika~ Teacher, what are the appropriate moods? The xy axes of high Christmasology only give me the choices of Serious, Antelope, Confused, and Confusing. What should I feel during a subjunctive mood?  _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-25-2005 17:41
whom is the objective case of who. its sort of archaic. But it is properly used when you are asking a question and as a relative. It is the object of a verb preceding a preposition and the object of a verb that follows a preposition. I have always thought you use whom when you are doingsoemthing ans who when someone else is doing something, but thats not exactly it. technically, as with affect and effect there is some overlap. Making real sense of the above. Whom is used preceding a preposition, and more commonly used following a preposition. Who is used in all other cases, except when it is not. Thus "who did this with you"? is proper and so is "with whom did you do this?" "Who is it ?" is proper. "Whom is it?" is not. "The person to whom you spoke is proper", and of course you can always "ask for whom the bell tolls." I hate the word "whom." In official writing, I bend over backwards and twist myself into pretzels to avoid having to use it. In regular writing, I just ignore it and go ahead and generally go ahead ungrammatically without it. coco _____________________
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Ben Bacon
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 809
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12-27-2005 04:46
... I bend over backwards and twist myself into pretzels ... |
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-27-2005 05:03
Languages are organic. They evolve. The whole point is that people understand each other.
As long as you can easily get the point across, it doesn't really matter which set of fad words or fad rules you use... rest assured they were totally different yesterday and they'll change again tomorrow. _____________________
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-27-2005 07:36
Languages are organic. They evolve. The whole point is that people understand each other. As long as you can easily get the point across, it doesn't really matter which set of fad words or fad rules you use... rest assured they were totally different yesterday and they'll change again tomorrow. That's a good policy for conversational communication, but not useful for critical applications. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Euterpe Roo
The millionth monkey
Join date: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,395
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12-27-2005 08:02
Languages are organic. They evolve. The whole point is that people understand each other. As long as you can easily get the point across, it doesn't really matter which set of fad words or fad rules you use... rest assured they were totally different yesterday and they'll change again tomorrow. I would have to reply, "yes and no." Yes, languages are organic--when they no longer reflect a greater reality, they die. Yes, language exists to communicate ideas interpersonally and intrapersonally. However, no, "fad words and fad rules" are not the yardstick by which the evolution of language is measured. At the moment, the syntax and spelling of text messaging and "l33t"-speak are language "fads." They will become accepted additions to English (or other languages if they exist there) if and only if they can be incorporated into "standard English." They will become incorporated if and only if they can be used to communicate complex intellectual and emotional states. At the moment, "text-messaging" is merely a shorthand and/or expedient means of expression. "L33t"-speak is an "in-group" form of expression that, because it is cumbersome and difficult to read, will go the way of "grody to the max." _____________________
"Of course, you'd also have to mention . . . furries, Sith Lords, cyberpunks, glowing balls of gaseous neon fumes, and walking foodstuffs" --Cory Edo
“One man developed a romantic attachment to a tractor, even giving it a name and writing poetry in its honor." MSN " next week: the .5m torus of "I ate a yummy sandwich and I'm sleepy now"" Desmond Shang |
