Sometimes a date is just a date

Maybe because of this?

Uh huh. I was refering to the straight bigots. Not all straight people.

There is a difference.

Neehai,

Sorry to hear this happened to you.
Unfortunately, it happens to me all the time.
My partner and I have been together for 7+ years at this point, and we go everywhere together.

When we lived in Florida, we barely got noticed by anyone.
My company transferred me to San Diego. Of course he came with me.

When we lived in California, we were not only not noticed, we felt completely at home.
California was WAY. TOO. EXPENSIVE. when my job folded. We had to move somewhere cheaper. We chose Buffalo because it is his hometown and we could afford to live there for a while without income so both of us could finish our degrees.

We have been living in his hometown for over two years now and we still get hostile stares. You wanna know what, though... a lot of those hostile stares are from people that, after they ditch their wives, girlfriends, straight buddies... wahtever, are later seen at the clubs, hunting for...whatever it is that closet cases hunt for.

I am not saying that all hostility comes from closet cases. I have noticed though, that many of the men that are REALLY straight usually care not one whit for what two gay men do. They just have no interest, could not care less, do not obsess on it and often rationalize with the whole "Ok... more womens for me!" idea. We just aren't threatening to them.

The ones we threaten are the ones who are struggling with SOMETHING... inner urges, childhood issues, insecurities, whatever.

That's kind of like saying "You white assholes should get a life. "


I don't dissagree with your point though but you didn't do a great job of addressing the group you want to get the message to.

No, it would be more like saying you white racists should get a life.

Referring to the straight people who were bigots was directly related to the scenario I was talking about.

You don't need to be straight to be a bigot. How about singling out bigots alone next time instead of implying that being straight is part of the problem?

Know what I think Neehai. I think that you are extremely bright person and know EXACTLY how you word EVERYTHING you say. You chose to address EVERYONE that is straight by saying "YOU straight bigots"... had you not wanted to insight hostility you would have said... "THOSE straight bigots"... big difference and you know it so quit playing coy. You addressed ALL straight people in the way you worded your sentence. I took it that way too but chose to ignore it.

EXACTLY my point!!!

I was singling out the bigots. The bigots who were straight and attacking the non-straight people. Their sexual preference became relevant by way of them making my sexual preference relevant. Remember, I went into the restaurant with only the objective of having a dinner date. Sexuality was interjected into the dinner by the straight bigots. There were other straight people there who were not bigots.

In this scenario the people who were being bigots were straight. As such, I addressed them and their ilk with the appropriate terminology.

Just as they said filthy homosexuals. One doesn't have to be a homosexual to be filthy, but for their purpose the phrase worked.

My post was directed at the appropriate audience of straight bigots. If you are staight and not a bigot, then I was not talking to you. If you are a bigot, but not straight, I have addressed you in more appropriate areas.

Bigotry is a big and ugly thing. Sometimes you have to tear it apart and address each facet in order to defeat the whole of it.


Yes, I say what I mean. I am guilty of this. I'm not sure that necessarily makes me an extremely bright person.


That is incorrect. If I had wanted to address everyone that is straight I would have said "you straight people". I didn't say that and you know I didn't say that because clearly you can read. I said you straight bigots because I was addressing the straight bigots. For your statement to hold true, one must believe that all straight people are bigots. I do not believe that. Do you?


So you choose to interpret something in a way that is counter to its meaning and this is a problem with others? Perhaps it is something you should address within yourself. Just a suggestion.

My statement is clear and clearly defended. I like how once again you have made this an issues of the fag being the bad guy. Isn't it funny how I bring all this fag bashing on myself. Maybe it's because I'm a sinner.

Well for the record, I find the words "straight bigot" as offensive as "filthy homosexual". 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Also, by your logic, if 2 homosexual people were standing side by side, and I called one of them a filthy homosexual, the other guy shouldn't take offense at all, because he bathed that morning and isn't in the least bit filthy.

It is not quite an accurate comparison.

Being a straight bigot in this scenario related directly to the nature of their bigotry. They are bigoted because of their intolerance of a sexual preference different from theirs. Their prefrence being straight.

Congratulations for taking the intent of this thread and twisting it. You win. I was wrong to try and have dinner in a restaurant. I guess I am offensive all around.

You know what Neehai, I'm on your side. And I'm straight. The wording of post dismayed me, what can I say.

I think you have said enough. You win. I am a bad person.

Way to pick apart the language and make your own issue. If you will excuse me, I am going to leave you to this thread.

Clearly I am a hateful person who hates ALL straight people!

Done with you as well. Congrats on nitpicking the thread for your own agenda.

In order for your accusations to hold true, you must believe that I do hate all straight people and that was the intent of my wording. You must also believe that I think all straight people are bigots. Now that I know what you and Ingrid think of me, it makes things easier to understand.

I don't understand why straight men complain, for every gay man, there's another chance they have at a straight woman they probably wouldn't have had. They should be happy.

Well, that's not at all what I was thinking. I'm sorry for pointing out something that I found insulting. I never disagreed with the intent of the thread.

Neehai,

Get off the "All or Nothing" wagon.
Are you TRYING to be a Drama Llama?

Some people disagreed with how you worded something.
It was not a personal attack.
It was them suggesting that your wording, with its syntactic ambiguity, was interpreted by them as an attack.

Not once did any of them say you were a bad person; you did that in an obvious attempt to either blow this discussion into ridiculous proportion, or to render the thread invalid and lockable. Either way, it is not an effective technique for discussion.
Not once did either of them say you were a sinner; you said that one too... totally non-sequitir to the discussion at hand. The discussion of sin or degradation did not enter this discussion until you brought it up.
Are you unpacking your baggage in this thread?
Is it Louis Vuitton? I simply will not allow cheap baggage to be unpacked here... only the good stuff.

To bring the thread back on track...

Some people thought your wording could have been less ambiguous and less generally accusatory. I agree with you on one level; my first interpretation of your wording seemed succinct and targeted.
But I also accept that, since there was more than one person confused by your syntax, and that the words used COULD be parsed in the fashion implied, it would have been better to simply say... "Oh...sorry... I meant: The bigots who happened to be straight." and been done with it...

Instead you chose to defend your wording as if that particular wording had any more merit than another syntactic configuration.
Does it?
Was the ambiguity deliberate?
WAS it a subtle attack on all straights?

You may want to examine your own motive for even starting this thread.
Were you looking for sympathy, or to stir shit?

I started this thread to vent and that is exactly what I did. Some days you get fed up with everything being some sort of moral or political statement. Sometimes I go out with guys just because I want to go on a date. Not because I want to challenge marriage or morality or religion.

I was venting because taking the person you want to your prom is a huge issue instead of just being a date. I titled the thread to meet my venting. Sometimes a date is just a date and it feels nice when that gets to happen and it feels shitty when it doesn't.

As for people not liking my choice of words, I think I explained repeatedly why I chose the phrase I did. Yes, I can see how they interpreted it, but it was insisted that my actions in choosing those words were deliberate because by some stretch I must hate straight people.

Ingrid and Billy chose to focus on my wording and not my post. I chose my words deliberately and explained my motives. And that is the end of that. This has nothing to do with drama.

Billy has succeeded in this thread as he has in others. Ingrid, I am sorry if you think I used my words to address all straight people. I have no other way to explain it to you. As I said, for you to take offense, you must believe that was the intent of my words. If you believe that after all I have said to the contrary, I don't know what else to say to you.

I never use cheap luggage. This thread wasn't about all or nothing, it was about a date.

Since you obviously missed what I said about the subject matter, let me post it again for you so there is no misunderstanding.




Here in lies the problem Neehai. Instead of apologizing for your wording which others thought offensive, you choose to defend your words. Even now, you apologize to Ingrid but seem to care less about doing the same to me. As Alain pointed out had you simply said something to this affect, “I am sorry, that was not what I meant to say”, that would have been the end of it.

You can’t seem to help yourself. You apologize to Ingrid but qualify it with a defense of your words. Why not apologize and leave it at that if you don’t like the drama as you claim?

What's wrong with having cheap luggage? Mine just sits around gathering dust most of the time anyway.

Hey i'm white and an asshole. does that make me a bigot?

It was an explanation of my words. Keep riding it Billy.

Explanation, quantification... call it what you want... same thing.