new photos from Abu Ghraib

Wait... Aren't these "new" pictures evidence from the investigation like 2 years ago? You know, where the offending parties were tried, convicted, and sentenced?

To truly rise above, we wouldn't be sinking to their level. That's the point, I think.

If the U.S.'s propaganda machine openly exalted warmongering, imperialism, and xenophobia, that would be one thing. Hell, even I might support that to a degree. Instead, we use excessive nationalism and euphemisms to paint our deeds into something entirely other than what they are whilst arrogantly expecting other nations to look up to ours and consume our junk and our debt and our democracy and our music and our materialism and our business models and our mtv lifestyles and our "me first" attitudes. That's what makes us fair game. We have the power and the money to be something truly better, but we aren't. Only our advertising is better. The truly "odd" thing to me is that so many more foreigners seem to feel cheated and angered by this than our own citizens.

Anyway, go team.

I don't recall any threads with graphic pictures of the Nick Berg decapitation. I guess the beheading of an American civilian just isn't deplorable enough to bother with the outrage.

-Kiamat Dusk

This is very well said, not really pessimistic but a fundemental truth and a very difficult one to face up to, let alone change. Anyone who even thinks this, let alone has the guts to say it out loud, is putting themselves in the firing line.

It's funny because it took something George Clooney said on a recent radio show (promoting and justifying Good Night and Good Luck) to make me realise it's time to wake up and do something, even if it's only to talk about it in public and vote the offenders out next time hopefully !

Lets see if I have this right....

Bob comes in and kills your wife, so you go down the street and beat the hell out of Bob's neighbor Joe who had nothing to do with the incident. His only connection is that he lives next door to Bob. And because Bob killed your wife it's okay.

Right?

That's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is it's amazing how your shock and outrage is reserved for these people but not your own countrymen (presuming you are an American).

I'm appalled and embarrassed by the excesses in AG, though I agree that some of these pictures may look to be something they are not because we don't have to context. Still, it's undeniable that prisoner abuse did occur.

I'm just asking why this incident deserves so much more rancor than what was arguable a more horrific act? Or what about the men burned in their vehicle in Fallujah only to have their charred bodies dragged through the streets and hacked up by cheering crowds and then hung on a bridge.

Had the perpetrators been American rather than the victims, we'd see thread after thread just like we do with AG.

Though no one will ever admit it, it is clear that the SLeft sympathizes with the terrorists...sorry...freedom fighting militant insurgents in Iraq. The incidents you choose to focus on prove it.

-Kiamat Dusk

Though no one will ever admit it, it is clear that the SLeft sympathizes with the terrorists...sorry...freedom fighting militant insurgents in Iraq. The incidents you choose to focus on prove it.

I'm just asking why this incident deserves so much more rancor than what was arguable a more horrific act?

Though no one will ever admit it, it is clear that the SLeft sympathizes with the terrorists...sorry...freedom fighting militant insurgents in Iraq. The incidents you choose to focus on prove it.

since the prisoners at AB who were not killed were released, I think your denial that innocent civilians were tortured is very telling

those contractors were in fact contracted by the military and were proxy part of the invasion and occupation. they knew full well the risk of being in THE danger zone (and I have spoken with Iraqi contractors) and they were paiud VERY WELL for that risk

something that cannot be said for the tortured civilians

The Nick Berg incident was sad, but let's face it, the guy was asking for trouble being a US civilian in dead center conflict/invasion/occupation zone (he in fact did work at AB, and was interviewed by Michael Moore in F911 video). He was also imprisoned by the US and told to leave Iraq as it wasn't safe, but did he?

in 2 bodybags he did

I don't see your point, you seem to be ranting against the left again instead of putting forward a valid argument. This incident does not really deserve any more "rancour" than other incidents, it just happens to the one that's being discussed.



Please define terrorism for me.
It's yet to be defined to my satisfaction.

currently it seems to be the most common definition is:
terrorism : hateful actions against us by people who don't like us for some unfathomable reason or other.

It's this deliberately hazy use of a hate word (terrorist) that I have a big problem with.

I for one do not sympathize one little bit with anyone who uses hate and mindless violence to enforce their way of thinking on someone else. Anyone. Think about it.

Wow, Mulch. So you're the guy who says: Of course she got raped! She was just asking for it! Look at how she was dressed! Look at where she was hanging out!

And, your definition applies to every Iraqi in the country then since it was no secret that the US was planning an invasion. They had their chance to get out. They willingly hung out in a warzone. And who says those were civilians?

I don't recall any threads with graphic pictures of the Nick Berg decapitation. I guess the beheading of an American civilian just isn't deplorable enough to bother with the outrage.

-Kiamat Dusk

2.Blows up a mosque...especially when there are people worshipping inside.

Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari was under new pressure as it emerged he was warned of attacks on Shi'ite shrines two weeks before the demolition of the Golden Mosque in Samarra by bombers who spent all night planting charges and left guards unharmed

I'm appalled and embarrassed by the excesses in AG, though I agree that some of these pictures may look to be something they are not because we don't have to context.

you mean the obviously fake one?

Fake one? So now the Nick Berg beheading was faked or are you just so apathetic that you're confusing the real murder of an innocent American with this prank:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128314,00.html


-Kiamat Dusk
...needs to eat...

I don't recall any threads with graphic pictures of the Nick Berg decapitation. I guess the beheading of an American civilian just isn't deplorable enough to bother with the outrage.

-Kiamat Dusk

I don't deny he was murdered. I deny it was a live body being beheaded. I also deny that it wasn't the CIA beheading the corpse. Certainly wasn't Zaqawi --as the man "beheading" Nick Berg has two functioning legs.

In this case I'd say a terrorist is someone who:
1. Walks into a crowd of children waiting for hand outs of candy and blows themselves up
2.Blows up a mosque...especially when there are people worshipping inside.
3.Takes over and blows up an elementary school full of children

But again, I don't see a lot of shock and outrage from the Left on this. You're all too busy being upset about some guy with "rapest" (sic) written across his ass.

-Kiamat Dusk

Is it beyond reason ? I don't think it is because the US administration have set themselves up to be the worlds police force, mostly ignoring the wishes of the UN.

That's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is it's amazing how your shock and outrage is reserved for these people but not your own countrymen (presuming you are an American).

I'm appalled and embarrassed by the excesses in AG, though I agree that some of these pictures may look to be something they are not because we don't have to context. Still, it's undeniable that prisoner abuse did occur.

I'm just asking why this incident deserves so much more rancor than what was arguable a more horrific act? Or what about the men burned in their vehicle in Fallujah only to have their charred bodies dragged through the streets and hacked up by cheering crowds and then hung on a bridge.

Had the perpetrators been American rather than the victims, we'd see thread after thread just like we do with AG.

Rightfully so.




(kidding, we love our allies)