new photos from Abu Ghraib

In case you missed it, from Feb 15. Australian sources released new photos from AG. Apparently, the Australians got the photos from the ACLU, after a Federal judge ordered the photos released. The US govt appealed the ruling and wanted the photos to stay hidden.

!! WARNING !! NSFA (not safe for anywhere.) This is some hard, bad stuff. I didn't make it past the fourth photo.

URL: http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/

Note: The Sydney Morning Herald, my original URL for the photos, removed the photos this morning. In times like these, it's good to know that you can count on THE MEMORY HOLE. Maybe TMH deserves a donation.

They misspelled "RAPIST" written on that guy's ass in photo 11.

It's really difficult to tell what the context is for some of the photos. Obviously some of them are harassment, but others... it's hard to tell.

And is that really torture or oral surgery in photo 6? If it's surgery, why are they doing it on the floor? Maybe they're putting in stitches?

Oh, and why did you start your link on photo2? Photo1 clearly shows a guard cocking back his fist over some restrained people. It seems like a more obvious choice to start than man with bag over head. Just sayin.

It's not torture, it's freedom tickling.

Is "freedom tickler" the new replacement term for "french tickler"?

Nah. French tickling has become "Cheese-loving surrender-monkey" tickling.

the link starting with photo 2 was my bad. sorry. I was kinda rattled after lookin at the photos.

That's the correct attitude, make light of it. There's another world out here watching your country's already low reputation go down the pan. ( My country is no where near blameless either )

The jokes so far in this thread have been directed against the current US administration and its supporters. Everyone copes with tragedy different.

I have mixed feelings on this. Some of the pictures, it was hard to understand the context. One guy facing a metal box on the wall with blood smears could have done that by slamming his head into the wall by himself. You never really know unless you were actually there to witness it yourself.

Other countries have done worse to our soldiers that have been captured. And that seems to be acceptable. But when America does it the entire world is in an uproar.

Compared to some of the stories I have read about what happens to our soldiers, those pictures looked tame. I am not saying torture is ok when we do it. I would prefer that no country used it. But the fact is, we are at war and what our soldiers do to them isn't even as bad as what they do to ours.

I just find it odd that everyone gets upset about America and how evil America is when there are much worse acts done by other countries daily.

But the point is that we're not supposed to be doing this kind of shit. Sure, it's assinine when some Islamic Jihad retard or some oppressive arab government complains about it, but we can't justify it that way.

I'm just ashamed that we have people out there who don't know any better. Who've also caused everyone else (especially the US military) to be dragged through the mud over this shit.

We've probably been doing this in every war we have ever been in.

But we are the only culture/country stupid enough that our soldiers take the pictures for shits and giggles. (At least from what I have seen it comes across this way since american pictures are the only ones that get leaked like this.)


Example of photo stupidty:
I am guilty of taking really bad pictures, although not of a war. Back when I was still under 21 a friend and I thought it would be funny to take a picture of me driving a car and pretending to drink out of a beer bottle. Nevermind that I didn't actually drink it while I was driving, but just from looking at the picture you wouldn't be able to tell that I was sober and just posing.
Somehow a girl that hated me got ahold of the picture and was threatening to send it in to the police. I ignored her, but whatever. It looked horrible and I am sure if people saw it now I would get a ton of shit about drinking and driving.
(There was beer in the bottle, since my other friend in the backseat thought it would be a good idea to open her beer before we got to where we were going)

To truly rise above, we wouldn't be sinking to their level. That's the point, I think.

If the U.S.'s propaganda machine openly exalted warmongering, imperialism, and xenophobia, that would be one thing. Hell, even I might support that to a degree. Instead, we use excessive nationalism and euphemisms to paint our deeds into something entirely other than what they are whilst arrogantly expecting other nations to look up to ours and consume our junk and our debt and our democracy and our music and our materialism and our business models and our mtv lifestyles and our "me first" attitudes. That's what makes us fair game. We have the power and the money to be something truly better, but we aren't. Only our advertising is better. The truly "odd" thing to me is that so many more foreigners seem to feel cheated and angered by this than our own citizens.

Anyway, go team.

Wow, that is a pessimistic viewpoint.

So from this I assume you think torture and maltreatment is justifiable because other nations do it ?

Your comment does nothing but strengthen the stereotypical image of the average American. Do you really it need it spelled out to you ?

No, I am just saying that a lot of other countries do it, yet America gets bashed the most. I guess you missed where I said that I didn't think any country should do it. But it's convenient to leave that out to make your judgement on me.

Why aren't people as concerned with the other atrocities being comitted by other countries? Why are they seemingly *ONLY* concerned with what America does wrong?

If I were you I'd stop now before I dug my own grave.

Thank goodness I'm aware the stereotype I mentioned is not a true reflection of most American people. But it should serve to remind you that we do not have international respect we think we deserve and for very good reason.

( I say "we" because Britain is really just a proxy US state )

Because everyone KNOWS that the dipshit with his pictures posted all over the country's billboards does it?

Either that or they're just assholes.

You're right, we're held to the highest standards, sometimes even beyond reason.

Rightfully so.




(kidding, we love our allies)

Is it beyond reason ? I don't think it is because the US administration have set themselves up to be the worlds police force, mostly ignoring the wishes of the UN.

Wait... Aren't these "new" pictures evidence from the investigation like 2 years ago? You know, where the offending parties were tried, convicted, and sentenced?

Also, without context I'm somewhat suspicious as to the real culprit in some of those pictures. We already know they think our concerns (in some places excessive, IMO, but that's another subject) about public opinion are laughable, at best, and that they have no objections to playing up the public opinion angle for their own benefit (how many uninvolved civilians have been blown up by bombs compared to military casualties? I don't have the numbers handy, but I seem to recall the ratios of innocent deaths/soldier deaths is heavily towards the innocents side). One need only skim this thread to see a sample of the kind of reactions they wouldn't mind getting, namely people jumping to conclusions based on incomplete sets of facts.

(For the record, I didn't vote for either Bush, and I disagree with how Bush Jr is handling things currently, so feel free to skip the "Bush lackey/lover/stooge!" stuff, mmkay?)

I believe they are not new pictures. When they were taken makes no difference. They were covered up and hidden by whoever and had to be released by some court order. My point that they serve to further degrade world opinion stands. That is no justification for keeping them hidden. There's no jumping to any conclusions here, just confirmation. I made my conclusions before we went to war and nothing since has emerged to convince me I'm wrong.

Fact: We are NOT at War

it is merely an invasion and occupation following the violent overthrow of an elected government

And who is "they" who do bad stuff to our soldiers?

Please be very specific. The current administration needs you to be confused about these facts so you don't question them.



2 wrongs make it right position?

When did Iraqi civilians do worse acts? Please be specific in time and place.

Again, you're belief here is important to the current administration. Just like when Iraq blew up the world trade center towers, your outrage and ignorance will allow them do what they want, when they want, just by pushing some butoons on you that produce the correct emotional response

you know Rumsfield dealt with the problem the same way

he banned cameras

as long as no one witnessed the abuse, it didn't really happen