Your Solutions on....

Did one of the ResMods die and make him a moderator? LOL Hillarious...

While I can appreciate your desire to "referee" this thread, I don't really see how a very civil exchange between Joy and me needs to be taken elsewhere. We were specifically discussing opinion polls that are relevent to ideas people have regarding US policies toward "security" (in the broad sense that you established in the opening post).

... and getting along for once

If I recall correctly, Joy has a clever way of asking relevent questions or providing interesting and poignant information (links or quotes) to discussions.

If we have not gotten along in the past then I believe I would have to take responsibility for that.

Oh, I meant finding common ground (me being a "SLeftie" and all )

oh yeah

Well, I didn't say you were perfect

ok, now we are having an "off-topic" conversation. Exactly what Kiamat was asking us to avoid.

Chippi, though the number of dead from terrorist attacks is miniscule when compared to famine or flu deaths, flu & famine don't walk into the grocery store where you are shopping and blow themselves to smithereens. Terrorism creates a sense of fear throughout the targeted population making them constantly wonder if they are about to be blown up.

I feel quite safe with Dubya in control of our national security interests here in the states and abroad....But I am rather hawkish

Briana Dawson

While I agree that we need top get over ourselves
I dissagree that we have caused the civil war between the Islamic factions, That has been going on for centuries
and I like how everybody ignores teh systimatic killing of thoudsands of Shiites and Kurds by Hussan that we did stop. We cannot bring Peace to the Middle East because there really are no right or wrong sides...just sides that refuse to accept eachother. Just out of curiosity, as part of our getting over ourselves woudl you support a withdrawl of all support from Isreal as well?
They are one of biggest causes of instability in the region after all.
The Truth of teh matter is. We have been interfearing in that region since teh 40's we helped set up several new countries and so now we cannot walk away and the Iraq situation, whether or not we should have gone in, we cannot pull out until soem sort of civil gov't is in place accept that as a fact and now we need to figure out how to get that civil gov't in place ASAP

I agree Also teh Liberal hafta stop acting like 5 year olds and take responsibility for doing stupid things like voting for Nader as a protest, It is your vote to throw away if you wish, but then do not whine about Dubya getting elected

When you place buildings with torture rooms in all of your cities and townships and people can be heard screaming from such places, I think that qualifies you as evil. And this is exactly what Saddam did.

Briana Dawson

I'm not ignoring the brutality of Hussein. I just don't happen to believe we should be "helping" people who don't want our help and I don't think that dropping bombs on their heads is exactly the best way to go about it. We were plenty happy to ignore Hussein's brutality when he was our bud and Rumsfeld was over there shaking his hand. Did we suddenly grow a conscience or has the Bush administration been dishonest about their motives?



I would support holding Israel to the same standards as everyone else. They've broken more UN resolutions than Iraq has by a longshot. Part of me thinks we should level the temple mount from orbit. They can fight over the crater.



Agreed. I don't think we should just pull out. We should try and clean up our mess. But if the majority of Iraqi people want us to go, we should go.

YES!
I have long thought that the only way to truely bring peace to the region is to drop a 200Kt Warhead every 50 miles from Cairo to New Delhi
Seriously, I think the world is Much more dangerous now than 10 years ago, and lets remember we were also attacked by the same groups under teh Clinton Admin, Remember the 1st WoT bombing..the Cole...The US embassy in hmm soemwhere in Africa So the extreamests hateing us is not a response to dubya.

hmm I agree that we went in for all the wrong reasons, but I belive that it was the right thing to do for many good reasons, Have we all lost our conscience? that we say that yes he is slaughtering his people, but it's none of our buisness?




YES!
I have long thought that the only way to truely bring peace to the region is to drop a 200Kt Warhead every 50 miles from Cairo to New Delhi
Seriously, I think the world is Much more dangerous now than 10 years ago, and lets remember we were also attacked by the same groups under teh Clinton Admin, Remember the 1st WoT bombing..the Cole...The US embassy in hmm soemwhere in Africa So the extreamests hateing us is not a response to dubya.

How about if we just do it in places like Cuba instead? Is that still evil, or just naughty?

Why? What has he done?

Dubya wasn't elected in 2000. That's rather the point isn't it?

Gore won both the Popular Vote --and as was revealed later he even won Florida which would have given him the electoral votes needed as well.

Bush was appointed President by the Supreme Court.



Though I didnt vote for Nader in either '00 or '04, those thyat did so certainly didn't vote for him in "protest" --they voted their concience I'm sure.

It's also what Bush is doing (or Rumsfeld if you prefer)

And then they cried all about the fact that there was a evil stupid republican in office

If you chose to throw your vote away in a protest..whatever the protest (be it your conscience won't allow you to vote for someone or whatever) any responsible person knows that to vote for a 3rd party candidate in this day and age is throwing it away I am proud to say I voted Meadow Party in 88 but alas...Bill and Opus didn't pull it off
as for that tired cry that Bush didn't;' win under the Laws of the Land he did and the Dems spent so much time crying about it they blew the next election as well! Deal with it and go on, stop crying about 8 years ago and put up a good candidate next time the fact is and you will have to agree Gore ran a piss poor campaign! he gave it away
distancing himself from a popular seated president to court a group that wouldn't support him no matter what...cost him the Election
May I ask, Have you ever been a election Judge? I have and let me tell you it is very very difficult to "fix" a election unless everyone there is in agreement, and we disqualified about 18% of the ballots for many reasons you cannot decide after the fact what someone "meant" to vote any more than you can be sure why people voted for Nader

Troll, You Stink But I Love You

I'm A Boinger,

Champie

LOL! Why do you hold us to a different standard than you do Bush and Cheney? Why on earth do those of us on the left have to come up with "reasoned, rational ideas" when the administration doesn't? If you want a rational, reasoned approach, read the US Constitution. That's two centuries of reason. Maybe you should send Bush and Company a copy while you're at it.

I think the very point of the thread is so that you can offer your rational, reasonable approach to issues which you feel are handled irrationally and unreasonably by the current Administration.

It's not a DIFFERENT standard, it's the same standard that you desire from any ADMINISTRATION, isn't it?

I also thought the Constitution was a RULE of LAW & PROTECTION of RIGHTS document. I didn't realize that it was also a strategy guide (after all Kiamet has asked for your ideas, not the rules of the game).

Um. Gore won the election. He didn't attain the Presidency. That has little to do with his campaign and more to do with Bush being a thief in chief.

They outta Charmin at the Whitehouse?

Let's look at the facts here.

In the late 1970's Jimmy Carter cut all relations with Iraq.

In the 1980's Saddam Hussein was using WMD against his own people and against Iran.

The Reagan administration sent Donald Rumsfeld to Baghdad to reestablish relations. The USA then began to send aid and helped with tactical information during the Iran-Iraq war.

So while he was using WMD, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush senior all told us he could be trusted.

When he had no WMD, no access to WMD and no way to get access to WMD, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush junior told us he was a threat and we absolutely had to invade Iraq.

Why would any one with any shred of intelligence believe these people now?

johnkerry.com

Do some fucking reading. The Democratic Party is filled with ideas. Let's hope they get a majority in both Houses come '06 so they can be implemented.