Later "Tookie"

I'd say based on that criteria, this guy is a LOSER.

I think I'll start a gang called the Crips kill people, and then write a book to make myself look good so I can go free........ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!

actually.. it has never been proven that anyone.. that has had the death penalty carried out on them has been innocent.. and to the contrary.. most.. sent to there deaths these days have just the opposite.. dna.. prooving there.. guilt

here is a thought.. lets quit.. race baiting.. and see a little justice.. for the victims for once..

oh and another fact.. there have been more.. white.. men.. then any other race.. put to death since.. the Supreme Court made capital punishment legal again in the 70's... what makes this fact even more.. astounding there are more blacks that make up the population on death row... hmmm blows that theory right out of the water.. doesn't it.. well there goes the play on the race card

who knows.. maybe one of the 4 "known" victims of this murder would have gotten a peace prize ..
ohhh wait.. we can never.. know that.. because there.. all DEAD..

My comment wasn't about the specific case, but was a general statement. Racism is just one social ill that would affect the way the death penalty would be used. Certainly I think there are people who should never walk free again, but I'm not sure that putting people to death is the answer.

Again, I hope it never happens to you or yours.
This isn't a race card. It is justice in it's purist form.
I seriously think some folks will just argue to do it.

If Tookie were granted clemency, there would be a whole lot of dudes on death row writing kids books. Feel the love.

it's certainly a deterrent against future crimes by said criminal.

The guy may have written kids books but the man never did anything to mitigate the organization he created, never helped the police break up the gang that was the direct cause of countless deaths.

On the other hand, I am against the death penalty simply because it is soo much more expensive to execute someone with all the appeals and such compared to just letting them rot in jail. We all face death and an injection is nothing compared to the pain he inflicted. A lifetime in jail is true punishment.

Well he's dead. We lose a good antigang resource today. Tookie spent a lot of time he never had to producing literature for kids (hardly just a single book) that conveyed various antigang and antiviolence messages. I can see why he didn't bother breaking up the Crips. If he pointed out leaders, they'd be replaced or the gang reformed from the same bad elements under a different name. Instead he attacked the social problems. For that alone he was a useful part of society (behind bars).

Revenge never accomplishes anything.



(btw if you're 'pro-life' and for the death penalty you're a flaming moron).

Do you really believe that innocent people have never been executed? I can tell you that of the last four people executed in this country, when we still carried out the barbaric practice half a century ago, two of them were innocent, and one would have been found guilty of a lesser charge had she been tried today.

This has nothing to do with revenge in my opinion. It has to do with JUSTICE.

And not that fictional crap about it, or four color comic variety. I mean pointing out to people that when you kill 4 people (or possibly only 3 people, if what his lawyers had any validity) there are going to be consiqences for your actions. Consiqences that writing a few children's books and speaking about how wrong he was will not avoid.

Let me look at it from your point of view: If I kill people, I can get out of my earned punishment by making myself useful after the fact. The fact that I can't undo the effects of the murders in any meaningful way is not the point, as long as I can serve the greater good.

Bugger that for bullshit.

Punishment should not be averted just because he's useful now. He killed a FAMILY for bloody sake! It could have been mine, or yours, or anyones. When you find someone like that, you put the rabid dog down and do it in a way that makes it seem as unappealing as possible.

Do I sound angry? Well, sorry to say you're wrong. I just think that you have to make sure that humanitarism does not get in the way of basic common sense. Punishment has to be consistant to be effective. On that note, I don't even believe in life sentences for truly brutal murders. You have evidence that a man premeditatidly killed a family that caught him burglerizing thier house? Remove him as a possible future problem. Permanently.

I won't even get into the number of 'reformed' criminals who go right back to the same tricks after release.

/clap

Oh oh someone pulled out the racism card. Typical.

He is useless. There are still gangs out there. There are still gang related deaths out there. Having him kept alive will make no difference. Where were his fellow gangbangers? They could probably careless if he lives or dies.

can't feel sorry, for him He did the crime, started the crypts and does not feel bad about the killings.

Gangs are NOT cool they are criminals and need to be dealt with as any other terrorist thret. (EOD)

SO what! he wrote some Books from prison, the son of sam is a born again Christian and he wrote stuff to, should he get out now and be forgiven I think not.

AMEN!!

Ahhh but it broke my heart to see Sean Penn so obviously in grief. And thank the diety that Joan Baez was there to sing his soul to damnation. Such a moving scene, I'm still wiping the tears o' the crocodile from my eye.

Some perspective...

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/pokie.html

Well..he was convictd of killing 4 unarmed people..but almost everyone agrees that he probably killed far more than that. He was the leader and founder of a very violent gang. And you don't get to be the leader of such by baking cookies.

No matter how he acts in prison, or what he's done since then, he is still responsible for those crimes. He wasn't mentally ill and was fully capable of discerning right from wrong.

He gave up his right to live on this earth when he pulled the trigger repeatedly.

The bad part is...they should never make someone sit around and wait 20+ years for the death sentence to be carried out. That is cruel.

I don't care how good or reformed he was, he deserved to be punished and despite his good deeds, however laudable, he should still pay a penalty for his crimes. However, I do not think that anyone should be executed for a crime. There are moral objections to the death penalty (killing is wrong), practical objections (sometimes innocent people are killed), monetary reasons (because of the expense of appeals etc. its usually cheaper to give someone life without parole), social reasons (many other countries do not have the death penalty and it makes us look barbaric), self-righteous reasons (by outlawing the death penalty we gain a moral upper hand over those countries that still do it), strategic reasons (having a death penalty encourages other countries with less stringent rules of proof to continue to execute).

On the other side there are reasons for the death penalty: deterrance (maybe, this is disputed, but often cited), closure for the family (I don't personally get this, but I think it's some sort of necromantic thing. Killing someone's killer some how makes the victim's afterlife better? probably because the killer took a part of the victim's soul and that gets released. Like I said, I dont understand it.), entertainment (many people get a thrill out of sanctioned violence, especially when revenge is involved. witness the popularity of violent sports and movies and the elated calls of "yeah, that was great!" on hearing of an execution).

Was "Tookie" innocent? Dunno, but there was enough evidence to convict him, and that weighs heavily against him. Did he deserve punishmen, most definitely. Was he reformed? Maybe, but I don't think it should factor into the decision on his punishment. Should we have government sanctioned executions? I don't think so.

Although I do not agree with the death penalty, this was not a good person. They should have let him rot in prison til he died a natural death. I was looking forward to the Tookie playset for children. What will I get the kids on my christmas list now?

Yes it is cruel, to the taxpayers who have to pay for a killer to be alive...

Personally, my thoughts are with Albert Owens, Yen-I Yang, Tsai-Shai Yang and Yee-Chen Lin. You know, the victims.

Interesting slant. Don't bother removing gang lords and criminals from the streets, because, hey, new ones would just pop up.

You and I see different things ... I saw that he wasn't 'reformed' enough to put his money where his mouth was. He wasn't going act against his gang. Sure he did lip service about antigang sentiments, but help the law put an end to the criminals and gangs already in action? Guess not.

You fell for the act. Gullibility. Hey, I got your nose! I got your nose! ooooOooOoOo