Time To Limit Free Accounts RE: Grid Attacks??

Damn it, sudently i feel so stupid. And i didnt understand half of what you said over there, but lets pretend i did.

Yes of course he can be tracked.
The ISP has a log of that person logging on that time, doing whatever on the internet, then logging off. Everything leaves a footprint, and not just on the ISP, also any websites/applications used.

It logs Time/date , amount of data downloaded/uploaded, what it was , where from.



no worries we all started learning somehow.

Oh. but heres the thing i dont understand. The ISP wouldnt just log the IP? if only the IP is recorded, and its no longer used when its traced, it wouldnt give the actual location. or would it?

Or it logs the location as well?

Shows how little you know about networking. The ISP OWNS each and every IP within that IP address's range. Their DHCP server assigns each user an IP address that the ISP owns. The only safety you have is behind your ISP and even then its shakey. Look how many ISP caved in to the RIAA/MPAA over downloading of copyrighted content.

Now a grid attack is a Denial of Service attack. This is a Computer Crime wich falls under FEDERAL juristiction. I'm pretty sure downing half a grid (we're looking at a grid made up of rought 1000 computers even after the consolidation of sims on Class3 & 4 machine) wich costs thousands of dollars in man hours and business downtime counts for something more then just "harassment."

I didn't ask you to judje my knowledge on networking. I was just commenting. as i said, im not an expert, and don't have time to learn. now if your a computer nerd, excuse me then.

You couldn't afford US$10 one time for a Basic account?

"Free Accounts" and "Basic Accounts" are not the same thing. "Free Accounts" have only been around for less than a year, and they've been a pain in the tuchus for so many reasons.

Does it make any difference? i mean.. god 10 bucks, its next to free.
And im in a Basic Account.

Yeh, but if you do that on a stolen credit card number that's wire fraud. You can get into a lot more trouble doing that than just using the number to "validate" an acccount that doesn't charge anything to the card.

Dood whos talking about stolen credit cards? ¬¬

Aodhan, the only way a object(s) would "disappear by themselves after a time" would be if you created a Temporary on Rez object(s). Otherwise, regardless of whether you log in or not, you items stay put. The only reasoning I can come up with for your items not staying where they are put is that, if you are a basic member then you dont own any land, and the land you are building on, either your items are being returned to you, or simply deleted by the owner of the land you are building on.

Consider this, plenty of items exist inworld. Their creators are not always logged in. How can you explain the appearance of items without their creator being online? You could argue that the owners of said objects are all premium account holders, and, to a certain extent, you might be right. However, like yourself, there are many accounts who continue with the basic plan and have no issues.

Food for thought. B/T/W, Welcome to Second Life, no matter how much whining you hear from others, I still have yet to see a rival application that I would pour as much of my time and effort into as SL. So Enjoy~

?????

I am on a free account and my objects never disapear.

Before you even connect...
Preferences/Network/Use Proxy...

Do away with this option and a lot of people could not get around a firewall and those who really wanted could use a local proxy server.

It is not difficult to find an open proxy in a country where there is no Internet law and the IT manager probably is not even aware that he has an open relay, much less logs its use.

Then again, a lot of phishing schemes and DoS attacks are coming from places like Iran where you would probably get a standing ovation for messing with an American business.

Griefers.

This doesn't actually work.

A great example of hackers doing as they please would be SEGA and Sonic Team's Phantasy Star Online. A game that has spanned several systems and has its own share of evil nitwits not only causing game servers to crash but actual irreperable damage to end user's savedata.

Phantasy Star Online V1 (Dreamcast) - US/EU Free to play JP Pay to play
First several months of playing there were few problems, aside from squabbling over SPECIAL WEAPON boxes. But soon GameShark and Code Breaker codes started to destroy the fun of the game, people would duplicate items, go from LV 1 to LV 100 in a second, be invincible, and soon malicious codes were designed. The nastier codes scrambling VMU data (Memory Card), crashing ships, and the infamous NOL code, turning your character into a LV 5 HUnewearl named NOL.

Phantasy Star Online V2 (Dreamcast) - US/EU/JP Pay to play ($9.95 US /month)
Within weeks of PSO Version 2 being released codes were circulating that bypassed the new version's enhanced protection features, while the GameShark could no longer be used the Code Breaker cheat codes could still be used. SEGA even went as far as banning accounts that were caught bringing down ships, duplicating, NOLing, and other disruptive deeds. But the hackers prevailed, creating codes that would unban their accounts on the servers.

Phantasy Star Online V2 PC - JP Pay to play ($9.95 US /month)
Even on the PC PSO was a hacker's dream, not only could they do the same things as the DC version, but record player information such as guild card data (Friend system ID) to zap your character the next time you entered a ship.

Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II GameCube ($9.95 US /month)
SEGA thought they had the upper hand when releasing PSO on the GameCube, current cheating devices relied on the serial port of the GC to operate, but as time went on new cheating applications appeared that did not need an external device, only a memory card like the DC's Code Breaker. And again hackers started to cause greif for dedicated players of the series.

Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II Xbox ($9.95 US /month + Xbox Live fees)
It took a while, several months after the release of PSO on the Xbox that players started to hack and cheat the game. Using their own PC and a proxy application they were able to edit their character data, duplicate items, and eventually crash ships and damage player data.

Phantasy Star Online Episode III C.A.R.D. Revolution GameCube ($9.95 US /month)
For the first time the infamous NOL corruption was stopped cold, the NPC NOL was no longer in the game, however only if you stayed on Episode III game lobbies... Episode I & II hackers could still corrupt your data as your character could interact with both GC versions of the game.

Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst PC US/EU/JP ($9.95 /month)
Cheating and hacking has been kept to a minimum due to SEGA's use of GameGuard, this little applet immediately kicking the player out of the game upon switching applications. And upon antivirus applications updating... Its been modified to allow background tasks to run, but disallow external manipulation of outgoing data. And for once player data is stored server side for extra protection. Yet hackers still duplicate items and cause general mischeif for the game servers and dedicated players.

A shame really, those who have stayed with SEGA and Sonic Team playing PSO as it was meant to be played, they're getting fustrated, as we are with these grid attacks. Even those who dedicate themselves to managing and maintaining the backend servers we use without a second thought in our Second Lives get frustrated at these events. Yet there are those who blame those souls who maintain the backend equipment for something one of us, an end user, has willfully done to disrupt our Second Lives.

Oh yes, until we can chop off the hands of those responsible for these incidents then such events will continue to plague MMO game developers everywhere. And I'm sure those troublemakers would like a slap on the wrist more than chopping off hands.

I've had objects disappear from under me while I'm sitting still. May be the land settings that makes it happen.

By object I refer to something detached like a piece of furniture or a vehicle. Attachments don't count, they never disappear.

"This doesn't actually work."

It is a bit difficult to test right now, but what about it does not work?

I thought s/he meant that free accounts can not create permanent objects. But upon reading a response to the post i see the resident just misunderstood.

Yes objects can disappear but the free accounts CAN create permanent objects, there is no limitation in that account besides land ownership as far as I know.

Exactly!

The items (vehicles) were rezzed in the sandbox and disappear even when I sit just hovering in the Welcome area.

And yes I do know it's because I don't own land and that is part of my point. Can someone who doesn't own land create a self-replicating item that can down the grid?

If someone who doesn't own land cannot create an object that can sustain its existence, can he make something like the self-replicating grid downers in the first place?

If he can't then that means the perpetrators are not basic account holders ... but are premium account holders.

The reason for so many "ifs" here is that I have not tested replication to that extent and I don't have the habit of deliberately leaving stuff in other's land. I hope to hear from someone who has (while on Basic account).

Yes, anyone can create an object that could bring down the grid. Yes, rezd objects to rot away for various reasons. The problem is the objects that bring the grid down multipy at a rate much faster than the decay. Like thousands of times faster.

Ok, as was one of my suspicions ... outrunning the "decay." Thanks.

I'm trying to see if there is some way of arresting such things in an automated fashion without affecting other users. So far all solutions (those I've seen and those I've thought about) create problems elsewhere.

So far the cleanest solution I see is to identify the offending object's template key, then freeze all the sims for a minute (not stop scripts but stop all updates) then delete all the objects that conform to the template using a broadcast command (like how they send announcements) that all sims will hear and execute in parallel.

To the end users it will just look like the game froze for a while.

i doubt that SL will take out free account.. or Restrict certain things.. i mean its obvious that these persons. know what they are doing.. about scripting... to kill the grid.. even if it is an Alt account... the person(s) can still... downgrade their main account and do the exact same thing just use your head a little bit people... i know its annoying... it annoys me as wel... but i dont know its hard to stop something like this... just wish people would grow up and play this game like it should be and not being cute... this is kinda like hacking/viruses i read something on these forums about lindens contacting the Authories about this. and seriously.. i'll feel sorry for the person if they do... =\ Prison time! all over a Game.. seriously my question is... Is It Worth it?!

One thing that occurs to me that COULD be done is limit NEW accounts from using SPECIFIC LSL functions. Just as your account has to be a certain age to use the preview grid, it would reguire the account to be a minimum age for those specific LSL commands which griefers use the most. (rez object and push come to mind)

A "Real" new player will be too busy just trying to figure out how to walk and talk and has no real need to create (or operate) self-replicating or pushing objects in his first 10 to 15 days or so. In therory, by that time Linden Labs would know if the credit card used to create the account was stolen.

True that this would not stop the griefers totally because they could create "grief" accounts in advance, but since it does require some effort in advance it might discourage quite a few of them since they cant just login create an account and launch an attack within an hour or two

Thats a great idea.... you should post it on the suggestions forums.

Eliminating free accounts would only reduce the number of people who have the opportunity to cause this problem. The problem would still exist, and could still be exploited by anyone with a credit card. This has to be solved by fixing whatever server vulnerabilities are allowing it to happen, not by restricting access. Otherwise it'll still happen, though maybe not as frequently.