STOP 'fixing' SL - please!

A quote from Torley in Answers...


'A constant challenge in Second Life is adapting with changes and new innovations while doing our best to retain backwards compatibility so that existing content isn't broken--or, in instances where more drastic changes might be needed, we want to inform the community at large of what's going on.'


My immediate thought?

Why not STOP with the 'changes and new innovations' that keep BREAKING things?
Surely it's obvious that the continual tinkering with something as badly broken as SL has become in recent months is making things WORSE?

There should come a time in the development of anything, software, a horse drawn buggy, any form of design or technology, when it becomes apparent that continued development of the current design is no longer a viable proposition and resources are better spent on a clean sheet of paper.

It's looking very much like that time is well past for SL. How about calling a halt, right now, to further 'development', and putting all the resources that go into such things as:

Breaking the object selection system

Making the edit selection lines so wide and fuzzy it's impossible to work with small objects

Messing up the camera in so many interesting ways

Adding unsighly arrows to the inventory

Making the move/resize handles so dark they can't be seen

Causing white to appear pale grey even at noon unless fullbright is selected

Breaking established LSL functionality

And so on, and so in, ad-bloody-infinitum...


into finishing the rumoured SL2 ground up rewrite?

Basically adopt the criteria that anything that hasn't yet been messed up in SL DOES NOT need 'fixing' or 'improving'!

I, and I think quite a few others, are now having such a miserable time coping with the fallout of the current 'update, followed by essential rolling update with optional client update, followed by mandatory client update' weekly routine that we are teetering on the edge.

I've had a couple of blissfull days break. Now I'm dreading the thought of what else I'm going to find if I return. SL has stopped being fun and become a grind. So just leave it be until it can be buried quietly and replaced with something better.

Some things in SL do need fixing.

What I'd say is "stop 'fixing' things without telling anyone first". Ideally, before the 'fix' is applied to the latest version.

Certainly with scripting, I'm afraid that LL programmers have to accept the fact that SL scripters actually know more about the effects that their changes will have than they do, and thus if they're going to make changes they need to at least inform people of what they are.

Doesn't anybody keep a bloody changelog these days? Or did I just miss something here?

Just think of it as mining for ore, or making pizzas, or killing rats and the drudgery becomes a MMPORG.

As my nanny always told me:just sing that to yourself after each upgrade.

A scripting grind! I knew there was something that was missing from SL. Now the experience is complete!

LL should never have a time where the next version is not available on the preview grid at least a day before it rolls in, except for critical "new bug" fixes. The preview grid shoudl never go offline.

It seems that they might not:which was posted at noon PST, two days after this vendor and e-commerce killing change was made. It was noticed and debugged by the customers which was quite an accomplishment as they had to have old results of the function to know that the new one was behaving differently. According to one report in that thread, the new implementation is now returning garbage under certain reasonable uses.

Changes to Integer <-> Base64 functions (not Xor) were disclosed to the public a week in advance.
integer and base64 conversion functions

Pardon me for missing a post that had one respondent and which 30-some people have read.

That's a far cry from an announcement or a release note, no?

Agreed! There are broken things in SL that do need fixing. But have you noticed it's generally the latest stupid 'oooooh, shiny!' add-on that manages to break even more things?

This ridiclous regiem of developers choosing 'fun' stuff to work on, rather than being assigned to work on serious problems that need fixing is dragging SL deeper and deeper into the mire.

'Development' of the current SL seems to be completely out of control, I wonder if those who so recently contributed $11 million to SL realise just what an undiscplined, disorganised shambles they have just entrusted their money to?

i have to stick up for SL here and say it's one of the most innovative platforms that i have found on the web. but i do have to say that every update i get seems to slow my system down a little bit more each time.

Exactly - a brilliant concept that is now being apallingly executed due to what appears to be a complete lack od disciplined management.

Were they available in a preview grid where purchases were effectively possible?

The last time I tested purchasing from a networked vendor in preview it didn't work because the vendor's home sim wasn't on the grid.

I too stand up for Second Life..

I play to have fun, I work in RL to make money..the only reason I can see not pushing ahead with new technology, or features.

So if I had to play SL like was 1-2 years ago and just making things 100% stable..I would of left here long ago to play something that give a little somthing, bugs are just that bug, I like to find a way around them, or work as they are..after all it is an online game, they are not 100%, and probally never will be (played many online games, Everyquest, DAoC, WWII online, the sims, etc....none were 100% stable, after update there was issues, no different here)

So just learn to play around them, can't build because of update, go and chat with friends, have a good time, building is a big part, so will be fixed quick. Try something new, and before you know it, things will be semi-normal again.

Maybe I am just too easy going, as RL is for stress, SL is for fun!

I am also going to stand up for LindenLabs here.. While SL may not be perfect, I will have to say that nothing is, and especially in an online community like SL (some call it a game, I call it a social platform), where on one side you have a loud crowd demanding all bugs fixed -now-, and on the other side you have an equally loud crowd demanding new features.

Now, I don't have an intricate knowledge of LL, and how they do things, but I do know that they have a team dedicated to fixing bugs, and other small teams working on new features, trying to satisfy as many as possible, but there will always be those who complain, and sadly enough they are often the loudest, so those of us who really enjoy our time on SL, aren't always heard, or maybe we just keep quiet far too often?

In any case, I would have to say that I fully support LL in their efforts to provide a wonderful place where we can all live out our secondary lives the way we want to, with only a few, basic rules we need to follow, and many of those are sim-specific, which makes it even easier to just choose where you like to hang out, and go there.

My beliefs are quite simple.. If you're unhappy with the way something works, make your own, better system.. Or at the very least, offer some -constructive- criticism, instead of just releasing hot gas.


Thank you, that was all.

The preview grid isn't really effective. Very few people go onto the preview grid and actually do anything other than look around at whatever feature has been added then they go back onto the main grid. Especially me.

I don't mind seeing LL releasing a buggy update providing they fix the bugs that show up. But until they've fixed all the old bugs. They shouldn't be adding a damn thing.

I've never seen anything like Second Life before. A program that is in continual development but has bugs that have been known about for over a year.

That's the - "You can do whatever you choose to do" approach for you. It doesn't work.

Ive noticed that too ksp - I have been in SL for almost a year now, and have noticed that with each update my fps and the way the game handles on my computer is screeching to a halt. I first started out with a 64 graphics card factory standard on my computer with 512 RAM - straight from the factory and onto SL. A friend told me to check out the game, I was blown away, loved it from the start, and been addicted ever since. While I had problems with "lag" I still was able to get around and have an overall great time in the game. After a couple updates, I noticed I could no longer hardly even play the game without random crashing, or lagged so bad my system was crawling, and if I opened any other windows, forget SL it was down for the count. I then decided "ok Ill bump up on the RAM", I went to 768 and while SL played a little better, I was then able to open other windows and programs while playing. YAYY I could have yahoo up! After a while, and hearing other people talk about how many fps they were getting and things, I decided to get a 128 GC - went out and bought one, nothing really special since im often strapped for cash, but it helped a tad. What happened? Oh about 2 weeks later another update....back to square one. I soon find out that my computer only supports PCI cards (which im told im doomed there already) ok no biggie, I wont get the wanted 40 fps, I'm stuck at 4 (im sure what I dont know wont hurt me) but that wasnt enough for me, after the latest update, Im at a crawl again and decide, well I have one more chance at this to try and do what I can - so I go out and get a 256 GC (last step I can take before buying a new computer) but do we see a pattern here? After every update, or every few months Im running to the store to purchase yet another thing for my computer, thinking that if I do that it will run a lot better. WRONG - my system now is running like it did, the day I joined SL, (maybe just a little better but not much) which makes me wonder, if I took everything out, and tried to log on with my 64 GC and my 512 RAM - could I even log in??!!!? Im all for making things better, but guys, I'm really frustrated with spending so much to try to make my computer run well for a game, just ONE game, everything else runs excellent on my computer. My only resort now, to build a new computer that will cost God knows how much, just to be able to play SL. I LOVE SL, but I cant keep up with spending so much just for SL to function. So now, as far as I know last I checked, the system requirements to play SL are, 512 RAM and I'm not sure on the Graphics card - but just out of curiosity, who is running SL on just 512 RAM, and a low end Graphics card and getting more than 2 fps? Anyone out there? I'm running 768 RAM and a 256 GC w/cable internet and getting MAYBE 8 fps on a good day (with object detail half up, avatar detail almost all the way down, trees down, draw 64, and shiny off). If anyone knows how to get more Fps and less lag and using the same or lower than me, please let me know

Yea, I went to the preview grid ONCE during 1.7's development (I think--or maybe it was 1.6's). I didn't like having to download yet another bloatware client and having to logon to a separate grid away from all my contacts. I didn't like that I didn't have my current inventory to test things I recently made, so I would've had to remake everything, which is annoying. I didn't even have my current avatar so I looked like shit and didn't feel like remaking that either.

The preview grid sucks and shouldn't exist. Active Worlds has a universe server and doesn't need to run a separate preview/beta one to test updates; AW simply releases a beta client/server and individual worlds run them. Why can't SL run the same way? Same grid but with preview/beta sims. Granted, SL is more server-oriented (unfortunately) than client-oriented but that shouldn't matter. If the overall grid software needs updated THAT often that it requires a separate grid, something's seriously screwed up with its design!

Exactly!:

1. 92415
   
2. 92350
   

Did you forget about Active Worlds already, Star? :/ It's had bugs for MANY years: http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/improve.html

Apparently:

1. Announcements Forum and Release Notes Forum (which should be moved to the root forum list) have release note posts.
2. Known Issues Forum
   
3. SL History Wiki's Release Notes Archive
   
4. releasenotes.txt in SL's directory
   

Nah. I never got to know AW intimately.

But still, it isn't being constantly developed like Second Life.

I looked on their messageboard the other day. It turns out that AW 4.1 really was planned to be released on the 1st of April afterall. Those dumbasses were giving me an hardtime over me suggesting that it might've been the plan.

Well, even when AW was developed regularly it continued to aquire more and more bugs, like SL has been. LL would be wise NOT to follow in AW's floundering footsteps and focus on fixing bugs BEFORE adding new features!

Those are all pretty sketchy and high level. The process seems to be that something breaks, everybody says "wtf?" and then eventually a Linden turns up and says "oh yeah, we changed that, whoops, sorry".

Don't get me wrong, I love SL and all, but with a system where users are actually doing things with the product that you are likely not even aware of, you need to tell them a lot more.

While I agree the release notes can be vague and not all-inclusive, you didn't seem like you even knew about them when you asked for a "changelog", which is what release notes are. Feel free to post in Second Life Answers and/or IM non-liasion Lindens in SL for more info. Torley Linden seems adept at getting info, too.

Release notes? Change Logs?

Would that really help? Has no one noticed that recent 'improvements' are even breaking Linden content? WHY do you think Help Island was down recently? A completely Linden built and controled sim, broken by changes to the estate tools?

Things are only going to get worse. Heres a list of things that worked perfectly for me before 1.9 but no longer!...
1. Ive lost the ability to send and recieve group IMs
2. Lost the ability to map my freinds
3. Lost the ability to receive new vote windows
4. I'm now unable to right click edit anything without a tree being in the way even though the tree isnt anywhere near it
5. Move locks send me into a simless void when i TP anywhere
6. I now have to detach everything manually on my avatar to make it save it in its current state
7. I get way more lag then i ever did
8. Script behavior is irratic! Not doing what they should, detecting as active when they arent, and having errors on things they used to not.
9. HUD attachments show up in screanshots and they shouldnt at all!
10. Offline IMs don't show up.

Only good things that came out of 1.9 are...
1. Ripple water don't hurt my FPS as much as it used to
2. Estate tools (only if you have a sim not on the mainland. Great way to promote better land tools for land owners! Good job... it's.. just.. great.. c.c)
3. Faster Teleporting for a while but then it went back to slow.

EDIT: Try to send them a email to support about any of it and all you get is this...