Packet Loss, Disconnection and Unplayability

Alright, after spending nearly $150 to $200 to upgrade my pc to more than meet SL requirements, I now find out that I am still unable to play because and I quote Michael from telephone tech support "A packet loss means a loss of informantion between San Francisco and my pc and we(Linden Labs) can do nothing about it." I've disabled my firewall, disesembled my home network so I am directly connected to my cable modem. Tested my connection with both my ISP and another online game without any of the same problems.
All in all I am s.o.l. when it comes to being able to play SL because the internet is dropping data.
Problems are as listed:
Packet loss up to 800% (seems odd but true)
Cannot move(only rotate cam) or teleport
Cannot either save changes to appearence or do not have permission to make changes(??)

System Specs:
1.8g processor
256mb 128bit AVI Radeon Vid card
768mb memory
5mb cable modem

If anyone has any clue as to how I can fix this.. I am more than willing to try

Hi... you don't say whether you are running Windows or Mac Platform. I assume you are running IBM compatible Desktop with at least XP Operating system. If so, your hardware resources are probably fine. If you are on a laptop, that is an additional potential problem.

You may need to check your internet connectivity, starting with a Speed Test. Given hardware and operating system resources, SL runs best on the very fastest cable modem connection you can afford. Today, cable modem speeds are in the 3 - 6 Mbit/sec range. But, the speed can vary. Run several speed tests during your SL online times. I have a 4Mbit/sec connection, but it typically delivers 3.4 - 3.6 Mbits/sec.... which is plenty for SL to perform well.

Also, contact your internet / cable provider and ask them to walk you through their online Diagnostics website. The should have one. If they don't, you may be dealing with a small or lessor quality cable provider. And, ask them to perform a 'line test / check'. That can pick up connectivity problems, too. Finally, ask them directly if they ever choke down users that are demanding high levels of bandwidth - SL loves bandwidth. Be firm, cable companies do not want users to know if they are choking down users at peak demand hours. If you suspect they are... go back and repeat the online speed test when your connection seems slow.

Hope this helps...

Yes I am running Windows XP SP2 on a desktop. I've contacted my isp, which is a major cable company here in the US and all is functioning as it should. During SL game play my bandwidth is fine running between 3.2 - 4.1mbs but for some reason there is data being lost during the information relay to SL. And my isp said they do not choke high bandwidth users. I'm not trying to be difficult.. lol I really would like this issue resolved before I chuck something out my window...

Have you run basic ping and traceroute tests to Linden Labs? Use "ping lindenlab.com -t" from a command line to see if packets really are getting lost of if there is something else wrong with your installation.

Also, post here a traceroute if you can.

Pinging lindenlabs.com[66.150.244.149] with 32bytes of data
Reply from 66.150.244.149: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=53
Reply from 66.150.244.149: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=53
Reply from 66.150.244.149: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=53
Reply from 66.150.244.149: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=53
Ping Statistics for 66.150.244.149:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Aproximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 27ms Maximum = 32ms Average = 29ms

Tried to use the trace route and packet loss utility SL Support reccomends.. but the url is no longer active.

Wow, now that is a weird one. I am running 3 PCs off my network, all connected to SL at the same time. One is a laptop and one is 1Ghz P3. The P3 is slow, of course, but functional. Have you checked your computer for viruses? I'd run Adaware, SpybotSD, and something like Norton or McAfee to ensure no background processes are draining your resources. I'd suggest looking at your video and system memory, but you should have enough. I think my P3 has a 64mb card and works okay. I'll think on this some more and see if anything else comes to mind, but definitely check for background processes sucking up your resources. You might also check the running processes and see if anything is hogging the CPU. Ideally, you would like at least 90 to 95% or more free CPU.

Have you tried some place like http://www.dslreports.com/stest to verify your bandwidth? Sites like this will give you a snapshot of rough upload and download bandwidth.

What do you get under Help > About Second Life? You can find cumulative packet loss stats there.

I've been round and round trying to fix this error. Packet loss wise, I am not losing the info.. nor is Linden Labs. My isp says they cannot give support for any game that requires their firewall to be disabled, and I quote my isp tech rep "Any online game that requires you to disable your internet security on a broadband isp isn't safe because they are asking you to put your pc at risk"

So... my isp is not going to be of any help.... and I am just about at my wits end. Too much trouble to play a game when I have no problems playing other online games.

Who are your ISP?

Wait, I'm confused. I thought the problem was that you were getting high packet loss?

and you may have already tried it, but didn't see it mentioned yet... have you tried reducing the 'max bandwidth' preference? try reducing in increments of 50 and see if you come to a better bandwidth setting. just 'cuz you have a fast line, you probably can't let the app run full-throttle... it can lead to the kind of loss you're getting.

What I meant was, that there is nothing I can do to prevent or fix the packet loss and there is nothing Linden Labs can do to prevent it or fix it because the loss is occuring somewhere between us not directly at our immediate locations.

And my isp is Cox Communications.

And I have tried altering the bandwidth, but thanks for the help. Maybe I'm just one of the few that cannot play. I've just about given up.

I think a lot of this is probably Cox Communication's firewall (which is part of its security suite). If you are using Windows XP you probably already have a firewall. The things you are describing can be caused by partial disconnection when SL can't connect properly because the firewall won't allow it to.

http://secondlife.com/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=TechLagDisconnect

A traceroute would still be really useful.

You can run tracert lindenlab.com from a command line.

I want to thank everyone for their well meaning and helpfull advice, but unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be a problem that will be able to be fixed. As I stated in my first post, no firewall was activated (in order to run Cox Security Suite, XP Firewall has to be disabled)and I had a direct connection to the cable modem, no other machine or programs were accessing my bandwidth, my isp wasn't clogging my bandwidth... etc... etc... One major deterent I have for even persuing a solution more actively is the fact I would have to turn off my firewall/internet security just to play this game, leaving my pc at some serious risk. A risk I'm not sure I'm willing to take when I don't have any of these issues with other online games. For informations sake however when I get home from work I will run the trace just to see the info I get and will post it here.


Thanks to everyone for their help,

bummah, that is too bad...

if you still can't ditch the itch to test further, though, any other pcs, macshops/macowners around you can test with? i'd try to get a different machine set up on sl and on coxcomm to see if the same thing happens.

(but when you're not really gettin' paid to do such testing, it's a real chore.)

C:\Documents and Settings\Celly>tracert lindenlab.com

Tracing route to lindenlab.com [66.150.244.149]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * 6 ms 10.204.32.1
2 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 24-234-1-209.ptp.lvcm.net [24.234.1.209]
3 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 24-234-5-149.ptp.lvcm.net [24.234.5.149]
4 6 ms 8 ms 15 ms 24-234-6-73.ptp.lvcm.net [24.234.6.73]
5 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms 24-234-6-6.ptp.lvcm.net [24.234.6.6]
6 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms nwstbbrc01-pos0101.rd.lv.cox.net [68.1.0.84]
7 30 ms 30 ms 31 ms paltbbrj01-so100.r2.pt.cox.net [68.1.0.95]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 41 ms 31 ms 32 ms p16-0-1-0.r20.plalca01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.3.78]
10 34 ms 42 ms 31 ms p64-0-0-0.r20.snjsca04.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.2.71]
11 30 ms 32 ms 31 ms xe-0-2-0.r21.snjsca04.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.2.73]
12 31 ms 49 ms 34 ms ge-1-2.a01.snjsca04.us.ra.verio.net [129.250.25.242]
13 32 ms 30 ms 31 ms ge-3-1.a01.snjsca04.us.ce.verio.net [128.241.219.18]
14 245 ms 201 ms 99 ms border1.ge1-1-bbnet1.sfo002.pnap.net [63.251.63.1]
15 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms web0.lindenlab.com [66.150.244.149]

Trace complete.

If anyone can make sense of this by all means.. please explain..

though you surely already found this yourself in the sl wiki:

"
Problem
How do I set up my firewall for Second Life access?


Potential Solutions
If your firewall requires specific port information (a hardware router for example), you can use the following settings:

UDP and TCP
Ports: 12020 to 13050
OR
Ports: 12020 to 12050 AND 13000 to 13050
(all ranges are inclusive)

If your software firewall allows specific programs to be excluded or "trusted" programs, add "secondlife.exe" from the Second Life program folder as a trusted program.
"

presume you've already covered this though. (or maybe not... is the issue that cox would not help step you through their 'security suite' to make these settings? 'or otherwise offer further support' to you? would be a double-bummah.)

Are you running wireless? What is your router config? Have your tried DMZ'ing your ports to your local machine's IP? Do you have a second PC and does it have the same problem? Is the Firmware for your Router official or 3rd party (HyperWRT or Sveasoft for Linksys for example)?

I had a lot of problems because of bad firmwares with bugs. I needed to try a few to get a stable connection. Have you tried removing your router from the equation to see if your router is the problem? You are getting good ping replies from what you listed and the only thing I can think that is causing this is a firewall or router issue.

What router are you running normally? You shouldn't need a software firewall if you have a decent router.

Ok... I tried to forward my routers ports for Sl.. no it's not a wireless, firmware is upto date... firewall on router is disabled as a default(Macfee, I dislike that company). Have tried just a straight connection to my modem... the 2nd pc in my home is not capable of running SL(only a cheap child's computer). Router firmware is official by Linksys... And there are no MacShops and I don't know anyone with a Mac on my ISP. Ping tests and Trace Routes have been run with the router in place and with my firewall disabled and I've posted the results here. The software firewall I am running is from my isp is an all inclusive Security Suite, I prefer my isp provided security software over any retail product. I logged in after I configured my router and yes I know I did it correctly... and I was able to interact and teleport for about 8mins then my avatar ran into a hill and wouldn't move after that and the entire mini-map went red and had a packet loss of 108%

What I seem to notice though is that no one is addressing the fact that this is the only online game I am having problems with. Hubby plays Everquest and UT, I play TSO and i didn't have to go through all this.

I have tried telephone support and basicly was told that the packet loss wasn't Linden Labs fault and they couldn't help me. My ISP tech support says that when they packet test there's no problem with my connection but if I have to turn off my firewall to play then the game isn't safe because I put my pc's security at risk.

What does your cumulative packet loss indictor say? (Help > About Second Life)
That's what leads me to believe it's a port-specific routing issue or a problem with your firewall.

Second Life 1.6.9 (4) Jul 25 2005 11:15:15

You are at 255328.0, 256524.0, 45.4 in Ahern located at sim709.agni.lindenlab.com (69.25.105.141:12035)

CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2200+ (1795 Mhz)
Memory: 768 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
OpenGL Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
OpenGL Renderer: RADEON 9200 Series DDR x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE
OpenGL Version: 1.3.4582 WinXP Release
Packets Lost: 564/1744 (32.3%)
Viewer Digest: c80fa197-7d45-778b-801a-136b4560eed5


Firewall wise again.. all my firewalls are disabled when logging into SL...
port forwarding set for 12020-13050 and DMZ is enabled

was finally able to find winmtr on my own(the link in tech support is no longer valid. Here is the correct and current link http://www.snapfiles.com/download/dlwinmtr.html )

Here are my results as you can see there are two places where I am losing packets one place cannot even grab a host name:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % lost | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------ |-------|-------|-------|-------|------|-------|
| 10.204.32.1 - 95 | 353 | 19 | 0 | 7 | 16 | 15 |
| 24-234-1-213.ptp.lvcm.net - 1 | 353 | 352 | 0 | 7 | 63 | 16 |
| 24-234-116-101.ptp.lvcm.net - 1 | 353 | 352 | 0 | 9 | 93 | 16 |
| 24-234-6-69.ptp.lvcm.net - 0 | 353 | 353 | 0 | 10 | 328 | 0 |
| 24-234-6-2.ptp.lvcm.net - 0 | 353 | 353 | 0 | 10 | 94 | 15 |
|nwstbbrc01-pos0103.rd.lv.cox.net - 0 | 353 | 353 | 0 | 25 | 219 | 0 |
| paltbbrj01-so100.r2.pt.cox.net - 0 | 353 | 353 | 15 | 32 | 79 | 16 |
| No response from host - 100 | 353 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
|p16-0-1-0.r20.plalca01.us.bb.verio.net -0 | 353 | 352 | 0 | 35 | 797 | 31 |
|p64-0-0-0.r20.snjsca04.us.bb.verio.net 0 | 352 | 352 | 0 | 34 | 703 | 31 |
| 129.250.2.73 - 3 | 352 | 344 | 0 | 34 | 453 | 31 |
|ge-1-2.a01.snjsca04.us.ra.verio.net -0 | 352 | 352 | 15 | 37 | 281 | 31 |
|ge-3-1.a01.snjsca04.us.ce.verio.net -0 | 352 | 352 | 0 | 32 | 140 | 31 |
|border1.ge2-1-bbnet2.sfo002.pnap.net -1 | 352 | 351 | 0 | 35 | 265 | 62 |
| data.agni.lindenlab.com - 0 | 352 | 352 | 16 | 33 | 266 | 31 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir ( [email]stanimir@cr.nivis.com[/email] )

I really don't think it's a firewall issue, as you would more likely have total packet loss and the client would simply not work. Packet loss tends to indicate that there are either collisions on the network, because ethernet is a collsion based protocol, which means when two packets hit the wire at exactly the same time they collide and need to be retransmitted, or it occurs when something cannot keep up, such as your graphics card or cpu or the client. Obviously, SL is highly graphics intensive, which is why something like TSO, which is not as graphics intensive, is not going to have the same types of issues.

Have you checked your resource usage, scanned for rogue processes and adware, and virus scanned, as I suggested before? Have you also checked your bandwidth using either DSL Reports or something similar? I tend to think this is a more likely source of trouble than your firewall. You might also check the router, if you are using one, for packet loss information. Compare what the router says to the game. If the router says little packet loss, then the router should not be the problem. You could also have a bad piece of CAT-5 cable. You are using CAT-5, right?? *smiles* If the wire is not certified at CAT-5, that right there could be the problem. Heck, you might just replace the wire to rule that out.

So, I would try to start at the router, then work my way back to the PC, then really interrogate what is running on your PC. To rule out your ISP you might ask a neighbor who uses the same ISP to try running SL, and see if they suffer from the same problems, but DSL Reports may be able to determine if you have an ISP problem if your numbers are really low.

It's not the router.. it's not my graphis card, cpu usage or bandwidth usage.... And I use CAT-6 Gold lines

It's my isp..... am on hold with them now.. I have a supervisor on the phone researching the hops and the curious drop offs