How to build a "dream system" for SL

Can any of the old timers lend me some advice on how to put together a system, that really gives me the best performance?

OK, I am sure, this question has been asked a hundred time (but i did not find the answers). If theres is already a thread which gives the answers, please give me a small hint.

My question is: Given a fixed bandwith (1 Mbit),
- will a faster graphics card give me smoother anims?
or only better pictures?
- will more RAM on the card always make SL faster or better?
or is there a limit?
- will a faster CPU make anything "better"?
where does it "max out" currently?
- what do i get, when I add more RAM?
where does this "max out"?

Will more bandwith help a lot?

In other words: i know that bigger is better. but there are a lot of limitations from the bandwidth side, and with the lagging on then Linden servers or? And it would not make much sense, to have the system idle all the time.

The system should be "stable" in addition. I have heard that a lot of graphics cards crash often. And thats no fun at all. What cards work smoothly under XP?

And i dont want a system which sounds like a harrier jet taking off in my living room ...

Any advice gladly and thankfully accepted!

okeeey

Bandwith - i run SL on a 1mbit , and sometimes 155mbit , i see no diffrence in loading even after clearing up my cache to force a new download of textures , under 1mbit i wouldnt go though.

Ram - oh yes, anything less then 1 gig is veery slow , i have run SL on 512-3 gig ram , 512 was swapping swapping and multitasking with window mode would be painfull slow.

Min 1 gig ram for SL is what i recommend.

Cpu - help offcourse
1300 duron (laugh now) slow slow choppy laggy (1 gig ram didnt help abit)
xp2400+ - also 1 gig ram - tried both r9800pro/6800gt - not to bad.
64 3800+ - 3 gig ram - 6800gt - is what im using now, very decent for SL.
(well im currently stuck at 1 gig since i fried my ram, but over 1 gig only helps with running alot of programs when SL is up)

I have both 9800pro and 6800gt , with SL the ati 9800 was decent, but it would be bad sometimes , but that kinda varies alot, i had no problem with my 6800gt.


oh yeah sound noise? - my 64bit is very quiet, silent/no fan psu (yes its hot hehe) 1550rpm's - on the vid card, only thing i hear.

Idle temp 39c - load 42c - i dont want to measure my psu , can that will be very high, but it doesnt matter, i use a server casing, so the psu isnt near my cpu. (its actually underneat the motherboard)

SL appears to use AGP texture loading which isn't surprising as unlike other game engines, they don't have much control over how many textures are used in a given area. Having to render textures from main memory slows rendering down even on good graphics cards, so I would recommend that you get all the graphics card memory you can for SL, that being more important than the raw speed of the card. Also, a PCI-Express x16 card should offer some advantage over AGP cards (as texture loading is quite a but faster) of the same speed. You know if you are planning on getting a whole new system that is, if you're just getting a new graphics card then don't worry about it, just make sure it's got 256MB onboard.

I am in the market for a new PC. I want SL to run at max performance. I went to Wiki and found the following system requirements:

PC Requirements:
(laptop users: see below)
• Graphics Card : nVidia Geforce 2 (32MB RAM) or higher, or ATI Radeon 8500 (32MB RAM) or higher
• Computer : 800MHZ or higher, 256MB RAM or more
• OS: Windows XP/2000
• Internet Connection: Broadband (DSL/Cable Modem/LAN)
• DirectX 8 or 9

First question, are these system requirements still valid? Second question, are these minimum requirements?

I would really like to have the best available for SL.

Would anyone mind taking the time to list out what I need (in layman's terms) or a list that I can bring with me when I go shopping. I am not knowledgable at all in this field and sure would appreciate the assistance.



Jenna Jacobs

I wouldn't mind seeing answers to the above questions for us Mac people too.

I think the minimum requirements are a bit of a joke really. Lets put it this way, I have an Athlon XP 2400+ (equivalent to maybe a 2.2GHz P4), 1Gb of RAM and a Radeon 8800 with 128Mb ram. And SL is not a fast experience for me. Frame rates drop as low as 4fps when there are lots of avatars on screen or you're near a complex build like the tower of primitives or whatever it's called. Interestingly lowering the screen resolution doesn't make much difference to the frame rate.

Obviously Linden Labs want to set low minimum specs so people aren't put off signing up, but I don't think you're going to go anywhere fast with an 800Mhz CPU and a GeForce 2.

As far as what you should get if you were buying a new machine, the low minimum specs don't help at all. Like with all things you want to buy the fastest machine you can afford but there maybe trade-offs in the spec of different components. Like I don't think there's much benefit to having more than 1Gb of RAM and there's certainly no benefit to having more than 2Gb as it's difficult for Windows to do anything with the excess. For graphics cards as I mentioned before, I think the amount of memory on the card is more important than speed of it although you should probably aim for a Geforce 6600 or Radeon X700 rather than anything lower end than that, not so much because SL is unusable on anything lower but because cards lower than that are already a long way behind the curve and will obsolete faster and thus don't offer good value for money in my opinion.

Oh I forgot to mention, I am a Windows user.

Jenna

to ideally run SL you need a few things...

1) a really fast cpu (intel side yer lookin 3.4ee's or 3.6's please, amd yer lookin 3500+ and above)
2) a good graphics card (ati is still ambiguously glitchy with newview, stick with nvidia 6800 GT or ultra)
3) a REALLY fast cpu (see above)
4) a gig of ram.. gettin low latency ram doesn't hurt either since its going to get alot of asynchronous accessing, look for cas2 3200 ram, or 2-2-2-5 labeled ram over raw bandwidth ram (pc 4000 etc made up 'standards' marked ram), in this case the latest intel systems with ddr2 may actually be less desirable given their high latency
5) a REALLY REALLY fast cpu
6) decently fast hard drive, look for either a big 7200 drive, or one of thewd raptor 10k rpm drives.. this will put and end to the cache hit stutters
7) did i mention a fast cpu?
low latency net connection, speed is less important than ping time here, hopefully your local cable or dsl is below 100ms ping, if its not you may want to try the other

You people are such nitpickers. I have a 4 year old computer and SL performance is great
My main problem is the atrocious ping times I incur due to having a crappy ISP in a crappy country, and also a lack of bandwidth.
OF COURSE it will lag in busy areas... SL is an open-ended, player-built world.
It allows you the freedom to throw anything you want at your computer.
No matter how good your computer is, we will always be able to create a scenario that will exhaust your processing power.
This is true now and will be true 10 years from now. LL's entire plan for SL is to increase our freedom as hardware allows. Expect to see prim limits increased in the long term, as well as new fancy graphical features, etc.

My PC is almost 2 years old and I have had excellent performance so far with it. Here's the specs:

ASUS P4P800 Motherboard supporting 800MHz Front Side Bus
Intel Pentium 4 2.4GHz socket 478 processor
1GB PC3200 RAM
GigaByte ATI Radeon 9600 pro 128MB AGP graphics card
Slot fan for extra cooling under the graphics card
19" ViewSonic E90f CRT monitor
40GB and 80GB Western Digital hard drives @7200rpm
Lite-on CD burner
crappy DVD drive
Logitech cordless trackball mouse (Cordless TrackMan® Wheel)
4mbit cable modem connection (w00t Comcast just upgraded from 3mbit!)

I run my SL windowed, maximized and at 1280x1024 resolution. My ping times are usually well below 100 w/ no packet loss.

when I first put the thing together, all the components plus a 450W power supply and case cost me $666.00... not including the monitor, 40gb drive, keyboard, mouse, and CD/DVD drives. I could probably put the same PC together for 1/2 that amount nowadays. Good luck!

Arti

Probablly say my picks recommended for accaptable game play:

2600+ AMD or 2.4 Pentium4 would be the minimum, 3200+ AMD or 3.2 P4
1 Gig ram
Nvidia 6600gt ( pci express is better but AGP works well if you are using an older mb)
128m video ram or better
19" monitor (preferably duel set up so you can do other things while playing SL)

Of course, everything is "or better"

I have tried many combinations and this seems to be the best for mid level performance without breaking the bank. Yes, duel CRT 19" monitors aren't that much of a luxury, you can buy a used 19" CRT for $100 or less at surplus computer places (everyone wants LCD now) If you have the room that is. I bought a 31" CRT used for $300 a couple of years ago and it is great its my livingroom multimedia set.

I recommend avoiding ATI cards if you can, simply because Nvidas seem to run with fewer problems. On the other hand, if you want the features of a 9800pro All-in-Wonder and don't mind the occasional crash in SL then by all means get the 9800pro since it is a great card for everything else.

Buying or building a new system, go with a PCI express motherboard and video setup and the fastest CPU and memory you can afford so you can get the most milage out of it that you can.

SL is very CPU and memory dependant, more so than video card capabilities (although video ram is important). The faster the CPU the better but an $800 CPU isn't going to be all that much better than a $400 one, looking at benchmarks is the best way to determine if you want to pay for the extra 5% in performance or not.

A lot of good answers to these questions already here - but just to add to the discussion:

The minimum requirements are, as mentioned, the bare minimums just to get the thing to run.

Realisticly, I'd put my current sytem close to the "minimum playable" specs:

AMD Athlon 1600+ (1.4Ghz CPU)
512MB RAM
GeForce3 Ti
----------

With the graphics settings tweaked slightly for performance, I can get around 30 FPS in empty sims - though things slow down a lot with other Avatars around.

Video Card, RAM, and CPU are the 3 most important factors in SL's performance. Ideally, you want the "best of both" combo that you can afford - but I'd prioritize them slightly in the order I have listed. For example, if you have a choice between an extra 0.1Ghz in CPU speed vs. a better graphics card, get the card.

You'll also want a solid Motherboard, a decent sound-card, and a good monitor / flat-screen display... But those things are all pretty standard these days.

These days (assuming money IS a factor - otherwise why not just buy the most expensive parts you can), I'd recommend:

Either an AMD Athlon 3200 or 3500 (the 3500's are the new Athlon64 - tasty!); or a P4 3.4Ghz CPU. Any of these CPU's should cost around $200 - $280; and going faster costs a lot, for a small performance-gain. If you have an extra $200 - $300 to go faster, then be my guest; but don't blow all of your money on 1 item, at the expense of others.

For RAM, I'd recommend some good brand-name RAM; and at least 1GB. 512MB is do-able, but 1GB is very much worth it for SL and other memory/graphics-intensive applications.

For Video Cards, again, you can spend until you're bankrupt. I personally like the $250 - $300 segment of the market, for price vs. performance. In that region, you're looking at some good offerings in both PCI-E and AGP from nVidia and ATI. I discuss them quite a bit here:
/111/c8/33477/1.html
(...and if the $250-range cards leave you under-budget, then get the next model # higher from either nVidia or ATI; and you won't be disappointed).

Hope this info helps! Take care,

--Noel "HB" Wade
(Tread Whiplash)

P.S. Although they can be expensive, there are several companies out there (Alienware, Falcon, etc) that specialize in 3d & Gaming PC's. They use solid, name-brand stuff and will be very knowledgeable and helpful. As I said, you pay a premium price - but you do usually get premium quality & service in return.

P.P.S. ...Took a peek at Dell.com - they're not premium, but their "Dimension XPS Gen 4" PC is a pretty good gaming PC for $1700. I would, of course, recommend upgrading the RAM to 1GB, getting WindowsXP Pro, and perhaps bump the Video card to a 256MB model if it isn't already (they're changing their website today and the specs are different on each page right now *sigh*). Don't forget that you can save some money by lowering the Warranty a little and opting out of some of the "extras". Enjoy!

(as an aside the system i mentioned as ideal (pretty much what i have now) is one that will get you pretty high sustained framerates (as long as dynamic lighting is turned off).. .basically with 4x anti ailasing, you will be able to guarantee about 25ish fps even in busy areas, and in the order of 40-60 fps in more isolated areas with lower build densities and fewer people

Thank you all so much for taking the time to advise me. Wish me luck!!!

Jenna Jacobs

The ideal SL computer is a top of the line model from about 5 years in the future. SL will still eat up all its available resources.

If you come up with a list of components, you can post them and ask for feedback. A lot of the time, stores may try to sell you crappier parts, particularly if you're a woman. (Needless to say, I'm not impressed by this in the least.)

The ideal price/performance ratio might be an Athlon 64, with at least 1GB of RAM, 2GB if you can afford it. I'd go with an NForce 4 motherboard and a 256MB GeForce 6600GT PCIe graphics card. If money is absolutely no object, you could even get a dual CPU, dual video card system, though the performance bonus with that would be negligable at best.

does the client support dual processors? i think this is only useful for multitasking.

I would not call this a dream machine...

But here's what I"ve got:

2.4ghz intel chip

800mhz fsb on the motherboard

512mb or ram (or it might be a gb.. would have to look harder to be sure)

big-ass harddrive... one of those new fast jobs. 250gb! (woot, I haven't even had to THINK about disk space since I got this thing. Had 11gb total before... how am I EVER gonna fill it? (I need to say that after every hard drive purchase))

OEM ATI 9200 w/ 256 on the card.

Except for the hard drive, I'd say you need better than this. People can say what they want about their old machine's performance, but if you start turning up the graphics options, it's gonna take you down. With local lighting turned on, I can about 7.5 fps under ideal circumstances... that is, if the light is done correctly. I notice about .2 fps change per light source... with a low number of lights tested only. The thing is, unless I'm starin' at the horizon, it's hard for me to get above 15 fps no matter what I do. So for that reason, I'd say that the above spec is not high enough for optimal performance.

One factor to consider when purchasing a computer especially for Second Life is location. Positioning the computer so that it is in the same room with the asset server may improve performance a great deal.

No shit sue... building with the kind of lag I have to experience is much like taming a wild horse.
You approach the prim gently, try to move it some, watch it pop back, and only after a couple of seconds of holding it in the desired position to you let go, so as to make sure that the server 'got the picture'.

I am overwhelmed. Never expected so many so detailed answers ... whow. I really like SL and its residents more every day.

So, if I may try to condense a little what was told by the various experts:

o Bandwidth above 1 Mbit does not help so much
Short ping times ARE important
o Speed of the Graphics Card is not that important
o Hard Disc is not THAT important (only of you have not enough RAM)

o CPU Speed IS very important. Speeds above 2 GHz are to be preferred
o RAM should be above 1 Gig, 2 Gigs are better.
Anything above that isn't that decisive
o GRAM is very important. Get as much as you can! 128 Megs is OK, 256 Megs better.
o nVidea Cards seem to deliver the best performance while running stable under XP

So, now lets go shopping! ... *grins*

At present, no, a dual-CPU system will not help at all. However, as the SL client is redesigned over the next few months to seperate networking and rendering tasks into individual threads, it... well, still won't make a lot of difference. Still, it'll make MORE of a difference than it would today!

how can i tell which room my asset server is in?

Kim -

I'm sorry, but I disagree completely with this point. The Video Card is responsible for a lot of your performance in SL.

Bottom line: You want the fastest combination of CPU & Graphics you can afford. Don't buy an uber-fast CPU and sacrifice your graphics card. Also don't buy an amazing graphics card and sacrifice CPU speed. Get the best combo - so one isn't holding the other back.

Now, top-end graphics cards can cost $500+; and so can top-end CPUs. Beyond a certain price range, you start to get very little "extra" for al that money. I would say the price-performance "break" is around $300 for each; although this fluctuates.

Some people on here keep saying that "graphics are not as critical" in SL - that may be true compared to some top-end games like DOOM3 or Half-Life 2... But for your casual user, the graphics card is still far more critical than in a "normal" home/business PC environment.

Do not make the mistake of getting an Intel graphics chip, or any nVidia "MX" or "LE" model - or any ATI "SE" model.

Take care,

--Noel "HB" Wade
(Tread Whiplash)

Oh no Tread. Please do not tell me I have made a serious mistake.

Video Card: Area-51m 7700 NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Go with 256MB of DDR3 memory
Motherboard: Intel® 915P Chipset Supporting PCI-Express

?????????????????????

I know nothing about PCs.

Mac People:

I run Second Life on this rig:

1.8 GHz DP G5
GeForce FX 5200 (64 MB SDRAM)
1.25 GB DDR RAM
Cable (w/ max downstream at 5mbit)

Is this good? It's okay. I certainly can't max my settings like I can in Quake 3. I can run with shiny objects enabled with a draw distance of 128m and get around 15fps under average circumstances. Local lighting I can get away with sometimes. Certainly not in Chinatown, but I believe you'd need a top 5 supercomputer cluster to run local lighting in Chinatown.

Had I more free RAM, I'm sure it would get a bit of a boost. Had I more video RAM, another boost. But I'm okay. The missus' iBook doesn't perform quite as well, I'm afraid, and it's pretty new. She got pretty frustrated fiddling with the appearance controls because rendering all those meshes at once choked her little card, whatever its specs are.