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Photoshop Vs Paintshop pro

Scarlett Southard
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 28
09-21-2008 10:49
Ok, i have paint shop pro photo X2, i work well with it but i somewhat find it really hard, like trying to make a halo for a shirt opening, there is no cuts and basically have to paint it away and it isnt working well.
Im thinking of just going to get photoshop, any advice? is photoshop better then paint shop? money isnt really a problem for me, i just want the better program :), so any advice? is it worth me going to get photoshop when i have psp? is there much difference between the two..?

Thanks :)
Rolig Loon
Not as dumb as I look
Join date: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2,482
09-21-2008 11:53
A halo? :confused:

I'm not a PSP user, so I can't give you advice about it. From everything that I hear, though, you should be able to do the same basic tasks with either PSP or Photoshop. If you already have an investment in PSP, why not stick with it and learn to fly it well?
Scarlett Southard
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 28
09-21-2008 11:59
ive had paint shop for a loong time, from the jasc 5, 8 etc to the newest one i no paint shop of the bak of my hand, but it doesnt seem to work with making clothes =[

a halo i mean like you no how you make a top? but you dont want it upto your neck, say you want it to show some breast or something, you have to paint that and if you dont have a steady hand then ack you got problems
Virrginia Tombola
Equestrienne
Join date: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 938
Make a Path
09-21-2008 12:15
I admit that it's been about a year since I used PSP regularly (I switched to Photoshop). But I recall it has a pen tool just like Photoshop does. To make a neck cutout, I'd use that to draw a nice curve (no steady hand required!), then convert it to a selection and create an alpha channel transparency from that selection.

If you don't know how to make an alpha channel to make a transparent cutout, there are some stickies at the top of this forum. Page through a bit to find the instructions for PaintShopPro.
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Rolig Loon
Not as dumb as I look
Join date: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2,482
09-21-2008 12:17
Oh, my! I wouldn't do that myself either. Whenever I have to draw a curve for a neckline or whatever, I use the Pen function to create a path in Photoshop. It easier and faster and, most importantly, it creates a nice smooth line -- much smoother than the wiggly line I would make freehand. I assume that PSP has a similar function.
Osgeld Barmy
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
09-21-2008 12:18
they both have pretty much the same tool set

but its a question of will you be a better artist just because you have a perceived to be better tool, when you dont really know how to use the one you have now
Scarlett Southard
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 28
09-21-2008 13:00
I no how to use psp lol
Scarlett Southard
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 28
09-21-2008 13:01
Rolig, Ive used psp fro a while now, kinda know it pretty well, nd from what ive seen on there i cant do that function which is a pain in the but, maybe its somewere that i havent seen or skipped, but i do no psp pretty well
Walker Moore
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Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
09-21-2008 13:04
From: Osgeld Barmy
they both have pretty much the same tool set


Is that true? It's caught up that much?

I agree that it should be able to do the stated task. I'm also under the impression that alpha is easier for beginners in PSP (based on what I've read over the past couple of years - but I could be wrong).

To the OP, I'd be surprised if PSP has caught up with the PS CS editions... but hopefully somebody who has tried both can enlighten us. If you're gonna get Photoshop, you will need to do some learning, that's for sure. ;)
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Rolig Loon
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Join date: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2,482
09-21-2008 13:09
From: Walker Moore
I agree that it should be able to do the stated task. I'm also under the impression that alpha is easier for beginners in PSP (based on what I've read over the past couple of years - but I could be wrong).


Again, I am not a PSP user, so I don't know what it's capable of doing, except through what I hear from people in this forum. Making an alpha channel image in Photoshop, though, is a VERY simple task ... just a couple of mouse clicks. If it's easier in PSP, I'm impressed.
Scarlett Southard
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 28
09-21-2008 13:09
Yes alpha's are real easy in paint shop, ive plaayed on ps for a hour or so before on a friends pc, it looks complicated, i think psp is maybe easier to use, but looking at all the options and things to do on ps it did look cool, although i had no idea how to use it, the thing with paint shop it is a really good program but theres somethings that are hard to do, and i just wanted to no which program was better, cos' im thinking of getting cs3


basically creating alpha on paint shop, well what i do, is open up mask layer, and basically paint all the bits i want transparent in black, then save to alpha and then i got my alpha :) i got no idea what ps alpha's do or how to do them


ooo i just realised it does have the pen tool function ps has! duhh, all of that steady handing for nothing =\ lol
Walker Moore
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Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
09-21-2008 13:17
From: Rolig Loon
Again, I am not a PSP user, so I don't know what it's capable of doing, except through what I hear from people in this forum. Making an alpha channel image in Photoshop, though, is a VERY simple task ... just a couple of mouse clicks. If it's easier in PSP, I'm impressed.


Oh it is most definitely easy. I think the problem is that the whole concept of alpha channels confuses people unfamiliar with graphics software. I was under the impression that PSP created an alpha channel automatically from transparent areas... without the user even having to think about it.

Again, I could be wrong.
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Walker Moore
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Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
09-21-2008 13:20
From: Scarlett Southard
cos' im thinking of getting cs3


If you're prepared to learn, you won't regret it at all. I've been using PS & Illustrator since the early 1990s, and they're first class graphics tools.
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Scarlett Southard
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 28
09-21-2008 13:23
Yeah in PSP Alpha's are made basically invisable, PSP has made it easy i think for people unaware with that kinda stuff

Yeah im defo prepared to learn, im very patient :D

Ive read up on Robins alpha channels and had a look through all that so i can get the basics of it, i think ill pick cs3 up and get reading and doing the tutorials! =]
Virrginia Tombola
Equestrienne
Join date: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 938
09-21-2008 13:56
From: Rolig Loon
Oh, my! I wouldn't do that myself either. Whenever I have to draw a curve for a neckline or whatever, I use the Pen function to create a path in Photoshop.


From: Scarlett Southard
Rolig, Ive used psp fro a while now, kinda know it pretty well, nd from what ive seen on there i cant do that function which is a pain in the but, maybe its somewere that i havent seen or skipped, but i do no psp pretty well


Aha, I knew I remembered a pen tool in Paint Shop. To be honest, I didn't use it much back when I had only PSP, but that was my fault, not Corel's. Here's a tutorial on creating a selection via the pen tool and loading it to an alpha channel:

http://www.pinoy7.com/psptutorials/9/selection-using-pentool/p1.shtml
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Horses, Carriages, Modern and Historical Riding apparel. Ride a demo horse, play whist, or just loiter. I'm fair used to loiterers.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Caledon%20Eyre/48%20/183/23/
Lightwave Valkyrie
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 666
09-21-2008 14:18
apples and oranges...
i use both and i find im using psp more than photoshop
they are different and the same its all in what you like to use
but if money is no problem then get it and throw some at me too :P
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Osgeld Barmy
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
09-21-2008 16:45
From: Scarlett Southard
I no how to use psp lol


apparently not if you cant find the cutting utility's
Osgeld Barmy
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
09-21-2008 16:46
From: Walker Moore
Is that true? It's caught up that much?

I agree that it should be able to do the stated task. I'm also under the impression that alpha is easier for beginners in PSP (based on what I've read over the past couple of years - but I could be wrong).

To the OP, I'd be surprised if PSP has caught up with the PS CS editions... but hopefully somebody who has tried both can enlighten us. If you're gonna get Photoshop, you will need to do some learning, that's for sure. ;)


tool set not features, hell ms paint has pretty much the same set of TOOLS
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
09-21-2008 19:47
From: Osgeld Barmy
tool set not features, hell ms paint has pretty much the same set of TOOLS

How are you defining the difference between a "feature" and a "tool", Osgeld? And how are you defining each term itself, for that matter? I wouldn't say MS Paint has anywhere near the same amount of either features or tools that PSP and PS have. I also wouldn't say PSP has as many features or tools as PS. All paint programs do have a few basic things in common, sure, but that doesn't mean they all have the same set of tools, as I would define the word.



From: Walker Moore
I'm also under the impression that alpha is easier for beginners in PSP (based on what I've read over the past couple of years - but I could be wrong).

I think you're misinformed. One of PSP's most serious shortcomings is the fact that it does not have a channels palette. It provides no way to edit channels directly, which makes it challenging for beginners to grasp the concept of what channels even are, let alone learn how to work with them. The only viable way to make alphas with it is to use masks as proxies, and then copy the mask data to a channel when you're done. You can't just create a channel at will or paint directly on a channel like you can in PS.


From: Scarlett Southard
Ok, i have paint shop pro photo X2, i work well with it but i somewhat find it really hard, like trying to make a halo for a shirt opening, there is no cuts and basically have to paint it away and it isnt working well.
Im thinking of just going to get photoshop, any advice? is photoshop better then paint shop? money isnt really a problem for me, i just want the better program , so any advice? is it worth me going to get photoshop when i have psp? is there much difference between the two..?

Thanks


If money is truly no object, then Photoshop is hands down the better choice. PSP's only real strength is its features per dollar ratio. Of any commercial image editing software, PSP gives you the most power for the lowest price, which makes it an ideal choice for hobbyists, or for anyone on a budget. But it's no Photoshop. If you want the best, most powerful, and most well documented image editing software on the planet, Photoshop is your man. There's plenty of good reason why it costs 6-10 times what PSP costs. You do get what you pay for with it. PS runs circles around PSP.

That said, PSP is certainly adequate for making SL clothing. It's well equipped to get the job done. So don't feel like you absolutely need to switch. PSP is a fine program. The fact that PS is better doesn't mean PSP is bad.

But again, if you've got the money to spend on PS, it's well worth it. Just be prepared for some initial discomfort in the beginning, since it will be a bit different from what you're used to. You'll find that some of your PSP knowledge will help you learn PS, of course, but some of it will also get in the way. Generally speaking, it's a lot easier to start with Photoshop and then branch out to other applications than it is to start with something else, and then try to pick up Photoshop afterward. But once you get used to it, you'll find you can do a lot of things much faster and with much greater precision in PS than you ever could in PSP.

If you want to give it a whirl, download the free trial from the Adobe website. You'll have 30 days to run it through the mill. If you have questions during the transition, this forum is a good place to ask. Several of us regulars here are fluent with both programs, and can help you translate your knowledge from one to the other relatively painlessly.
Thunderclap Morgridge
The sound heard by all
Join date: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 517
09-22-2008 00:39
From: Scarlett Southard
ive had paint shop for a loong time, from the jasc 5, 8 etc to the newest one i no paint shop of the bak of my hand, but it doesnt seem to work with making clothes =[

a halo i mean like you no how you make a top? but you dont want it upto your neck, say you want it to show some breast or something, you have to paint that and if you dont have a steady hand then ack you got problems


I make all my clothes with it. You simply use masks and raster deform some. You need to relax, use chips template and study the manual.
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Thunderclap Morgridge
The sound heard by all
Join date: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 517
09-22-2008 00:44
From: Chosen Few
How are you defining the difference between a "feature" and a "tool", Osgeld? And how are you defining each term itself, for that matter? I wouldn't say MS Paint has anywhere near the same amount of either features or tools that PSP and PS have. I also wouldn't say PSP has as many features or tools as PS. All paint programs do have a few basic things in common, sure, but that doesn't mean they all have the same set of tools, as I would define the word.




I think you're misinformed. One of PSP's most serious shortcomings is the fact that it does not have a channels palette. It provides no way to edit channels directly, which makes it challenging for beginners to grasp the concept of what channels even are, let alone learn how to work with them. The only viable way to make alphas with it is to use masks as proxies, and then copy the mask data to a channel when you're done. You can't just create a channel at will or paint directly on a channel like you can in PS.




If money is truly no object, then Photoshop is hands down the better choice. PSP's only real strength is its features per dollar ratio. Of any commercial image editing software, PSP gives you the most power for the lowest price, which makes it an ideal choice for hobbyists, or for anyone on a budget. But it's no Photoshop. If you want the best, most powerful, and most well documented image editing software on the planet, Photoshop is your man. There's plenty of good reason why it costs 6-10 times what PSP costs. You do get what you pay for with it. PS runs circles around PSP.

That said, PSP is certainly adequate for making SL clothing. It's well equipped to get the job done. So don't feel like you absolutely need to switch. PSP is a fine program. The fact that PS is better doesn't mean PSP is bad.

But again, if you've got the money to spend on PS, it's well worth it. Just be prepared for some initial discomfort in the beginning, since it will be a bit different from what you're used to. You'll find that some of your PSP knowledge will help you learn PS, of course, but some of it will also get in the way. Generally speaking, it's a lot easier to start with Photoshop and then branch out to other applications than it is to start with something else, and then try to pick up Photoshop afterward. But once you get used to it, you'll find you can do a lot of things much faster and with much greater precision in PS than you ever could in PSP.

If you want to give it a whirl, download the free trial from the Adobe website. You'll have 30 days to run it through the mill. If you have questions during the transition, this forum is a good place to ask. Several of us regulars here are fluent with both programs, and can help you translate your knowledge from one to the other relatively painlessly.


Actually Chosen, 12 allows you to edit the alpha channel. they don't call it that but it is directly editable. So are the other channels if you can access them. That is still extremely hard to do. You view overlay, and select absolute black or white. Other than that I agree.
However, I believe that Corel wants it to directly compete with Photoshop because Painter doesn't.
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kipper Zapata
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 10
09-22-2008 01:17
To the OP


I have PS CS3 Extended.
I tried a trial of PSP but I am not a fast learner due to M.E so I find once I am comfortable with a software program trying to swap to another is a nightmare.
But then some ppl ( who I envy ) can use multiple prorgams with ease..can pick up and learn a program within a few weeks.
Took me 12 months to be confident with PS and its that big theres no-one on the planet that knows all of PS... its just too big..most ppl will learn and use the parts they need the most and along the way follow a few tuts that teaches them a few more tricks they later go on to wonder how they ever managed without them.

Sounds to me like your "stuck" with a problem as I saw you left a different post somewhere else asking about this specific problem.
Your tool is not the problem your understanding of it seems to be.

There is no short cuts no magic wand I understand your frustration , been there myself and still get there from time to time..

The only way around it is to search for tuts and keep trying, once you have it mastered
you will look back and think " oh geez! its so easy now I know!!"

Bit like learning to drive a car... its daunting at first but once your driving after 6 months it all comes as second nature.

Buying a totally new piece of software would only add to your frustration.

I dont make clothes so I can't advise specifically but I work on my alphas in the alpha layers not in the standard layers.

Just google " Second Life T Shirt Tutorial" and i am sure you will learn some tricks you have not been aware of previous that may help you overcome your current problem.
As I say no short cuts...I know when I was stuck I would scream at the software " stupid thing! how is ANYONE meant to learn all this!!!"

We each learn at different paces..and I am a slooooooww learner :)
LillyBeth Filth
Texture Artist
Join date: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 489
09-22-2008 01:21
To the OP


I have PS CS3 Extended.
I tried a trial of PSP but I am not a fast learner due to M.E so I find once I am comfortable with a software program trying to swap to another is a nightmare.
But then some ppl ( who I envy ) can use multiple prorgams with ease..can pick up and learn a program within a few weeks.
Took me 12 months to be confident with PS and its that big theres no-one on the planet that knows all of PS... its just too big..most ppl will learn and use the parts they need the most and along the way follow a few tuts that teaches them a few more tricks they later go on to wonder how they ever managed without them.

Sounds to me like your "stuck" with a problem as I saw you left a different post somewhere else asking about this specific problem.
Your tool is not the problem your understanding of it seems to be.

There is no short cuts no magic wand I understand your frustration , been there myself and still get there from time to time..

The only way around it is to search for tuts and keep trying, once you have it mastered
you will look back and think " oh geez! its so easy now I know!!"

Bit like learning to drive a car... its daunting at first but once your driving after 6 months it all comes as second nature.

Buying a totally new piece of software would only add to your frustration.

I dont make clothes so I can't advise specifically but I work on my alphas in the alpha layers not in the standard layers.

Just google " Second Life T Shirt Tutorial" and i am sure you will learn some tricks you have not been aware of previous that may help you overcome your current problem.
As I say no short cuts...I know when I was stuck I would scream at the software " stupid thing! how is ANYONE meant to learn all this!!!"

We each learn at different paces..and I am a slooooooww learner :)
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Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
09-22-2008 02:56
From: Chosen Few
I think you're misinformed. One of PSP's most serious shortcomings is the fact that it does not have a channels palette. It provides no way to edit channels directly, which makes it challenging for beginners to grasp the concept of what channels even are, let alone learn how to work with them.


That's what I thought, but I expressed myself badly... hence the follow-up post.

I was under the impression PSP automatically created an alpha channel when saving to certain file types, provided some transparency is present in the image.

So yeah, it's a major issue that you can't edit channels directly (it would certainly make PSP useless to me), but useful for newbies who want to create t-shirts and don't want to bother with such things... I suppose.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
09-22-2008 08:51
From: Thunderclap Morgridge
Actually Chosen, 12 allows you to edit the alpha channel. they don't call it that but it is directly editable. So are the other channels if you can access them. That is still extremely hard to do. You view overlay, and select absolute black or white. Other than that I agree.
However, I believe that Corel wants it to directly compete with Photoshop because Painter doesn't.

Interesting. Thanks, Thunderclap. I'll have to take another look at 12.

I really have to wonder why they don't just add a channels palette and get it over with. In terms of really basic stuff, that's the only thing PSP lacks that prevents it from being a serious competitor with Photoshop. I doubt it will ever be on par in terms of advanced features, which is fine at its price point, but as far as basic features, the lack of a channels palette has always been pretty absurd.
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