"profesional Skin Ripper For Hire !"

Well isn't the skin ripper working for peanuts doing the hard work the maker won't do, if they wanted to make reall money they wouldn't bother with tatoo's they'd just be reselling skins fulltime.
Someone else does the custom work that skinmakers refuse to do and they go off their nut, if makers don't want people adding tatoos to their skins then they could stop selling them, but theymight as well try to stop people wearing red hair with the skins too.
And I supect there's a lot of skinmakers and texture artists out there whining about their copyright & DCMA rights and yet using pirated software to make that content.
So if you don't record shows off tv, don't burn your own music CD's and don't have any illegal software on your computer, by all means keep throwing stones at EVERYBODY who does so.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - you might be surprised just how many designers in SL have their tools perfectly legally, too, so I wish this would stop getting thrown in to debates about this subject. It's nothing but a red herring, and a bad one that that.

It wouldn't suprise me if all the serious creators have the proper right legal tools, but they only make up some of the content creators out there.

I provide this sort of thing with some of my products as a service, provided the person paid for both items and i have the actual benediction of the skin maker.

Funny how these tools can be useful to get back some of your own work when you recovered from a hard disk failure and your SL inventory silently ate some of your work.

I forget who originally said it so no quote but giving out a TOS on a notecard like TRU has done for years is essentially pointless unless your going against someone large enough to make it worthwhile to sue them in RL court, day to day people like this guy seems to be will just either ignore it or laugh at it because they know that it will never be enforced unless like that sexbed copycat guy they become large enough to get on someone with the money to sue's radar.

Wow. *Sadly shakes his head and walks off*

So... by this logic, if you've ever jaywalked or run a red light, no one should ever come to your aid should some crime befall you? Not wishing it to be so, but just sayin'...

And it's true - a lot of us DO have legitimate licenses for this software, or are making do with less expensive (or free) programs. Should their rights be overlooked just because, by your logic, some people use pirated software? Just because they just might not have the time to give each and every customer exactly what they want in the colour, opacity and shape they 'must have'?

No, I'm just pointing out many seem to think it's ok to pirate other peoples software, but not their own.
Really they should be chasing the big fish who resell skins, not the guy making $200L adding a tatoo to someones skin that they legitemately purchased.

as a clarification of my earlier post

assuming PatTheRipper does the following, I have no problem...
1) checks to see if the skin/tatto artist do mods work, some still do and it's stealing from them for Pat to do it
2) ensures that the client owns all works to be modded
3) makess sure the finals are delivered no-trans (if theclient trans the originals the client is doing something illegal, not Pat)
3) deletes the originals

that's it

I know people will cry copyright infringement, but it's still fair use for me to hire a third party to modify a work I own, even if it risks it being available to others. let me give a for instance

several friends come to me to make backups of their DVD's, I make them copies, I even ask if they want me to keep a backup, or would like to store the originals in 'the case'( a large case where I keep all the backups). I don't own them, I don't watch them more than I need to trim the ends( trailers and such), and I only charge them the cost of 2 discs (the extra is for time/effort to rip/copy). it's not illegal, unless I use them myself, or distribute them.

could I watch them? sure, but why when I can go to said friends house and watch it w/ company. could I sell them? again, sure I could, but it's not in my ethics. heck, I still go to movie theatres because it's cheaper than buying a disc I'll only watch once anyways, once seen, it bores me

ASIDE:
I could even see a whole new market for people making +copy/no-mod/no-trans textures out of no-copy/no-mod/+trans textures, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax that deserves a new thread =)

Technically you only have a right to "use" the said piece of data it's not like owning a car.

I disagree. The 'big fish' who resells skins should definitely never be allowed to become a big fish, and arguing that it's ok for someone to use the *same* means to make less money only opens the door to major grey areas about the legitimacy of said tattoo artist who *says* they will delete whatever skin they rip after they are done.

True, but that being said, "use" has very broad terms in digital media, and ironically even in software. as long as person does not redestribute they are effectively safe from legal entanglement, I can cut ads from my own dvds, use third party apps to modify the behavior and even the code of a program I own, or chop up pictures...

SL becomes grey because certain exploits(my name for it) make it possible that personal use becomes redistribution, but it can just as effectively be argued, that those exploits are not the intention of the viewer design, and thus it is not the fault of the party displaying the item

legally there is no difference between me modifying digital media for my own use, me having someone get on my computer and do it for me, and me sending the data to a third party to edit for me. all are legal.... as long as I don't inpinge on the services offered by the provider

morailty... is a different question =/

as a for instance, there is no legal issue with a person recreating or even modding no copy textures like skin / clothes for the purpose of archiving / personal use... and they could choose to use any copy, legally, but oddly not more than one at a time... but they cannot transfer those copies legally, unless they transfer the original AND all copys to the next party, or at the very least delete all extra copies...

but who patrols this? no one, how could they, given the sheer numbers? I can't say I'm happy with the system, but I didn't make it I only live with it.

Jessee, your argument seems to assume that someone will be redistributing the skin.

If we assume that is NOT happening, do you still find this offensive?

I find it sad that you feel you need to protect the art you sell against any kind of modification for sole use by the purchaser. I'm a fan of your work, btw. If you were a real tattoo artist, you couldn't prevent the tattooed person from getting another artist to change an existing tattoo. Sadly, in the digital domain, you can protect yourself this way.

Wrong. There is, in fact, quite a bit of difference between you doing a thing and you redistributing copyrighted content to someone else to do a thing.

Again: Fair use rights are _your_ rights. They do not extend to a third party in any way, shape, or form.

Totally beside the point. First, many do NOT. Second, even if many do, that has no impact on the legality or morality of the practice of applying tattoos.

Are you sure you understand all laws regarding "agency", the ability to allow a person to act as yourself for a specific purpose? I sure don't.

In any case, the practice we're talking about violates DCMA and is therefore illegal and against SL TOS. I'm more interested in the ethical issues.

No, I make no pretense of being a lawyer. But the fact that are specific laws regarding such situations validates my point, they is clearly not "no difference" between them.

No such rule on SLU. So please go to SL universe and reveal the name of said individual there or send me the notecard unedited and I will. This person is not protected. Its just that this forum is now only for technical work as the rest is effectively dead.

ive done this for myself. it was unbearably inconvenient to 'wear' tattoos like clothes, never be able to wear a bra with tattoos, etc.
offering this as a service may seem a bit dodgy, but not everyone has the know-how to do it themselves.

Yep, this is like having someone repaint your car, not offer stripes as an option, but then slap you with a legal writ prohibiting you from adding stripes to your own car for fear of someone copying his paintjob in the process.

So without any due investigation we have already judged this person as a theif even if they aren't reselling the skins.......................
Got your pitchfork presharpened too and don't forget the torches, and do theives bodies float or sink?

Except in all those pesky, realistic ways in which it isn't.

True or false: They have a full-permission copy of a skin they didn't even pay a dime for.

Not to mention that the reassembled skins now list someone other than the actual creator as the creator.

I don't know, you tell me, people labeling them as a theif have obviously checked the person in questions inventory I guess?