Word from a vendor to the public.
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Bo Jimador
Registered User
Join date: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 4
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01-26-2006 18:56
I love SL, I love running a business in SL and I love seeing my creations being used. With that said, people have to understand that vendors do have real lives. For MOST of us, SL is still just a hobby. Example 1- Person suposedly was IMing me while I was not in world for a few days. Customer failed to ever read my profile where I explain I dont get most my off line IMs and to please send an email. Custom goes on to bitch at me when she finally catches up to me in world about poor customer service.  Example 2- I rarely ever refuse a refund. I can only remember doing so once, and tis was very recently. I advertise something I sell as 16 reversable animations making a total of 30 interactions (one is not reversable). They IM me telling me I am scamming people. I told this dip shit to pass it back and Ill refund them, but they continued talking crap, so finally I say "F%^$ you, keep it." People please remember. SL content creators are people. We have bad days just like you, and asking for a reason to refund is not saying "no". All it is saying is please explain why so maybe we can improve the product. Also, If you have a question, do not send an offline IM saying "Hey" or "Are you here" and expect us to respond, or even see it. SL does have a max offline IM delivery and between vendor notifications, IMs and other messages, I get about 2% of my IMs. You may want to look at the person you are IMing profile to see if they give better methods of contacting them. Not to sound like a little bitch, but al this does is sometimes make me feel unappreciated and tired of SL. I speak to many other content creators who go through the same thing. I get tp a point where part of me just wants top rip down my shop and rediscover my passion for this place. Just one of my rare rants, sorry to make you read this nonsense.
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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01-26-2006 19:04
From: Bo Jimador Just one of my rare rants, sorry to make you read this nonsense. I will never get that moment back! Please send me a refund. I bill at $350/hr and that took about 1.5 minutes. By my calculation, you owe me $9, or approximately $L22,680 at a $L280/$1 exchange rate. I expect remittance immediately. Thank you.
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go to Nocturnal Threads 
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Elvawin Rainbow
Registered User
Join date: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 172
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01-26-2006 19:15
Bo I know how you feel thats why I have a big axe and my motto is off with their heads!
Gabe in the interest of the public good and to make sure you arent padding your books I double checked your math, however my calculator battery was dead so I sub cintracted it out to Anderson & Co. Enclosed is my bill for $11,000,000 L I'll be happy to forward the documentation to you as soon as I can figure out how to unlock this Anderson shredder
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"Off with their Heads"
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-26-2006 19:37
I... never know how to respond to these threads. My job is to make my customers happy. That's your job, too. Sometimes they aren't happy. You work until that changes. I derive significant benefits from the existence of my customers. As a result of those benefits, I owe each and every one of them my time, patience and prompt communication. I mean... I can understand being occasionally frustrated, but I don't expect anything from my customers, except for them to demand the best from me. I'm certainly not going to lecture them on how to interact with me. I'm going to quote something here for you. I hope you'll take this example to heart. It's how business owners should treat their customers. This guy is the CEO of a restaurant company, who took the time to write to a customer who was sad that roasted veggies had been taken off the menu. Yeah. Roasted veggies. (Thanks, consumerist.com) From: someone Ben,
First of all, thanks for your note. We always appreciate hearing from customers… even if we’ve done something that doesn’t make them happy, it helps us a great deal.
We worried a lot about Roasted Veggies and what the reaction would be. The reason they disappeared in the first place is because so few people actually ordered them, and the amount of prep time and waste (because they’d sit too long and we’d have to throw them out) stopped justifying keeping them on the menu years ago… but because of the few, and outspoken, customers who lived on them, we kept them in place. You are now the 7th person that has written about this loss since we took them off three months ago (not including a handful of our employees who are also quite upset).
From a purely business standpoint, it didn’t make any sense to keep the Roasted Veggies. From a customer loyalty standpoint, however, your note (and the others like it) makes me want to get them back on the menu tomorrow! The challenge we always have is balancing the two… you would be amazed at the number of requests we get on a weekly basis from our customers - obviously, we can’t accommodate everyone, but we do listen to everyone, and consider what they say carefully.
I don’t know how this will turn out in the months to come. I know I can’t promise they will return unless we start hearing overwhelming feedback that they must. We’ve taken items off in the past and had no choice but to bring them back (ie. Buffalo chicken is best example where it felt like a riot was about to take place)… so far, this hasn’t been one of those items.
I hate to even suggest trying the tofu, if you are in fact a vegetarian. My wife is, and that’s what she gets religiously. It’s not your standard tofu, it has spice, flavor, and people love it!
Other vegetarians will get the fajitas, though I agree with you are far different than the Roasted Veggies.
And finally, others will just get any of the items we sell “as is”, which is to say without chicken or steak. Most of our menu items start vegetarian, and only when you add chicken or steak do they become otherwise.
I am sorry I don’t have the answer you are looking for. To try and make up for this, and to give you a few visits on us to possibly find something else that gets you excited, send me the 16 digit code on the back of your Boloco card (you can pick one up if you don’t have one, and send it to me then) and I’ll add some Burrito Bucks on there for you to use. It’s the least we can do, and maybe you’ll find something that works. If not, we will hope that something we do in the future brings you back to our restaurants - we have sincerely appreciated your business and hope we’ll find a way to earn it back soon.
Cheers,
John
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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01-26-2006 19:45
oops I outed my own alt here. hehe
Enabran, I agree with you 100 %
But, what I am saying is more along the lines, where if the person sending the letter to the restraunt got mad that he couldnt reach someone after hour and refused to leave a message in voice mail. Yet the next day got mad he was not contacted.
Also, like I said, I only refused a refund once. And that was because I told them to pass it back to me and they kept talking nasty without ever giviing the object back.
I hope I am not coming across as saying I am larger than the customer, all I am saying is try to keep it a friendly place.
Also, does that website offer the letter that was sent to the restraunt? If so was it insulting and childish? Because it sounds to me like this owner recieved a civil letter.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-26-2006 19:56
I agree with you Bo, and with Enebran too. I've been pretty lucky and have had very few rude customers, but every now and then it happens. I wish everyone was patient, polite, and understanding. Having said that, I've found that me being polite, accomodating, and doing what I can to make the person happy regardless of their demeanor is always the best and most effective way to handle it. I think sometimes people get preemptively upset based on an assumption that they won't receive good service, and then when I miss an IM or I'm gone for a couple of days they get doubly mad because it's like a confirmation of that original assumption. Those people are usually the ones who are most surprised (and appreciative) when I do what I can to make things right.
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 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-26-2006 19:57
From: Beau Perkins Also, does that website offer the letter that was sent to the restraunt? If so was it insulting and childish? Because it sounds to me like this owner recieved a civil letter. He did, dude, but that's not the point. Customers are like startship captains. They want what they want yesterday, and it had better be good. It's just the way it is. And that's okay. Don't let it get to you and don't let it affect your quality of service. I dunno how productive it is to try and address customers at large via this venue.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-26-2006 19:58
From: Chip Midnight I agree with you Bo, and with Enebran too. I've been pretty lucky and have had very few rude customers, but every now and then it happens. I wish everyone was patient, polite, and understanding. Having said that, I've found that me being polite, accomodating, and doing what I can to make the person happy regardless of their demeanor is always the best and most effective way to handle it. I think sometimes people get preemptively upset based on an assumption that they won't receive good service, and then when I miss an IM or I'm gone for a couple of days they get doubly mad because it's like a confirmation of that original assumption. Those people are usually the ones who are most surprised (and appreciative) when I do what I can to make things right. You've hit it on the nose, Chip. Carbon copy for me.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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01-26-2006 19:59
There's a line between offering good customer service and being a doormat for the sake of a dollar. Offer the former, pity the latter.
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Little Rebel Designs Gallinas
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-26-2006 20:00
From: Enabran Templar You've hit it on the nose, Chip. Carbon copy for me. Yep, after I go out of my way to fix things and they're still rude and unhappy, then I hit them on the nose 
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 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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01-26-2006 20:13
My problem always arises (arose? I haven't really been "in the game" for some time) from people who wouldn't accept something I had written as clear policy.
No transfer means no refund, being the biggest of these.
I always stated this very clearly beforehand. I would work with an upset customer to try to get them a product they could live with. But in the end, the policy had been stated ahead of time - No refunds on no-transfer objects. It's just me giving the product away for free.
But oh did they not like to hear that.
Of course, sometimes the interaction was a lot more simple. I got an IM once from someone that said, and I quote exactly because I remember it to this day, "u product suks refund plz".
Yeaaaaaah.
I make it a policy to never *ignore* a customer. I might not be able to answer them, but I do try to pay attention to them.
I broke it for that one.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Jora Welesa
Dark Lady of the Sith
Join date: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 153
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01-26-2006 20:17
I have lots of experience in the customer service department that is Opal Enterprises. Mostly with Tech Support. I try to be polite and understanding, even when things go well beyond my control. For instance, I had someone purchase one of my sabers and it simply would not work for him no matter how we went about it. I even involved one of the scripting Lindens who wasn't able to determine why it was failing even after pouring through my script for four hours. I gave the fellow a refund well before that point and allowed him to keep the saber. I didn't have to give a refund because it's copyable and therefore I'm unable to verify that it's been returned.
I've had a few irate customers because they didn't read the directions with the saber kit, but I try to be polite and helpful to them and most often it ends up all good and everyone's happy. Still, though, I have a lot of projects in the works that I've not been able to get to because of customer service calling my attention. It's frustrating as can be and very counter-productive. I've had more than one instance where I've had my business partner have to talk me out of deleting the whole thing. Mostly, though, this is because of drama that people try to get me involved in because of my product. I guess I agree with both sentiments here and sometimes it's hard to strike a balance between 10 hour RL work days and my Secondlife job.
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Jakkal Dingo
Equal Opp. Offender
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 283
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01-26-2006 20:23
I hear you man, definitely. I do my best to return contact to all my customers, but sometimes I just don't have the free time to get back with them quickly. And weekends are especially bad for me.
But I have gotten A LOT of rude PMs from people, and sometimes I think it's generally the nature of the people that buy my stuff (No, furries, it's not a hit on you guys).
I'm not the most patient person in the world, but I will help someone that's having trouble. But for problems that are EASILY solved with a little cognitive thought, I get annoyed when people are rude to me about it. Such as, when they buy one of my prim avs with the various functions (like dragons fire, or manticore stinging). Everything the avatar can do is in the notecard, yet they refuse to read them.
One of the BIGGEST problems I've had is people buying one of my prim avs, and getting the wrong gender (Since male and female are sold seperately). ALL my avs are copiable, because of this I CANNOT give refunds. I've put up signs EVERYWHERE, I have a HUGE disclaimer sign, I have warnings in my shops. Yet it happens CONSTANTLY and I haven't been able to find a way to stop it.
And because the prim avs are fairly L-expensive, I get bitched at when I can't help people who buy the wrong gender. Please people, take the time to make sure what you're getting is the right avatar BEFORE you buy!
And then I get this one prick, who isn't even a customer who threatens to "recreate" my work if I don't help him with a modification to my werewolf. He then goes off on another tirade about how he's going to ruin my avatar business because he has "Friends" and he'll tell everyone about how I (refused to be cheated by a diaper wearing furry schmuck) er I mean, wouldn't help him after he was rude, arrogant, and demeaning towards me. Guess I Should thank him for the extra advertising as I sold more avs that weekend than any other.
I really wish people would understand the sheer amount of bullshit we have to go through as content creators. Yes, we're making Linden, but generally most of us don't make enough to pay for the stress we get from rude users. I mean, c'mon, a $1500 avatar is what, $5?
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Jora Welesa
Dark Lady of the Sith
Join date: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 153
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01-26-2006 20:37
You've hit the nail on the head for me, Jakkal. I've had this very same thing happen to me, but for a different reason. I have a couple re-sellers of my stuff. It helps to spread the word around. My sabers are designed without a hilt so that the person buying it can attach a hilt they created to personalize their lightsaber. Anyway This one person is mad at one of my resellers and tells me they are going to try to ruin me for the actions of this individual, and claimed they had a full perms copy of my script. I see this as trying to sue Little Debbie because the supermarket you bought the Little Debbies at cheated you. Don't get me wrong. I love my customers. 99% of them are decent and good people willing to listen to me when they need some help, and patient while I get the fix in place. It's just that 1% that makes life hell.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-26-2006 20:41
From: Jakkal Dingo And then I get this one prick, who isn't even a customer who threatens to "recreate" my work if I don't help him with a modification to my werewolf. He then goes off on another tirade about how he's going to ruin my avatar business because he has "Friends" and he'll tell everyone about how I (refused to be cheated by a diaper wearing furry schmuck) er I mean, wouldn't help him after he was rude, arrogant, and demeaning towards me. Guess I Should thank him for the extra advertising as I sold more avs that weekend than any other. Someone like that I'd refuse to help and promptly ban from my stores. Patience has its limits and no one should have to put up with that kind of crap.
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 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
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Ironraptor Albion
Shiny metal raptor
Join date: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
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01-26-2006 21:38
I notice that to many, if a person is working in customer service, or any sales job, they're automatically designated as 'inferior' individuals. Therefore it seems to be that particular type of customer mindset that drives them to try to piss off the person working there or the seller by any means possible because of that lack of humanity. It seems to me that there lies a psychological divider that automatically comes up. In our modern "have it now" society, that mentality has been re-inforced.
So yeah, that's my conclusion. :/ Luckily for me my objects aren't scripted, they're basically for those who want something cool, but don't want to script it. You have your stock model, and you modify it as you see fit. Therefore if the customer has a problem with my product, it's not my fault, it's theirs because they have complete control over modification of it, and my product is copyable as well, so if there's a problem, pull out another one from your inventory and have at you.
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"History is like an endless waltz, it constantly dances to the three beats of war, peace, and revolution." - Gundam Wing, Endless Waltz
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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01-27-2006 00:51
I've been very fortunate with my customers. Yes, I'm crazy expensive, and most items are no mod / no copy - maybe that helps somehow? I've had nothing but good experiences. I get a lot of mid-size land barons, and sim owner traffic - people who have deep roots in the community. The scammers that come by (usually a few a week) are easily identifiable and NOT customers, though they pretend to be. Usually they are after my $L, pretending to have 'not got a refund' when they paid my vendor incorrectly (blatantly false and easily checked), or want to 'help' me with West Trade Imports in some financial manner that involves giving them money first. Sometimes the scammers pester Garnet for 'refunds' due to 'purchase mistakes', as she is an officer of West Trade but can't see my transaction history. Luckily Garnet is too sharp to fall for it.
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 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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It's people! Second Life is People!
01-27-2006 05:55
From: Bo Jimador People please remember. SL content creators are people. Online environments often have a problem with people forgetting that they're not talking to computers just because they're talking ON a computer. This isn't limited to Second Life, alas, and it's not a problem that will go away. 
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-27-2006 06:05
From: Reitsuki Kojima I always stated this very clearly beforehand. I would work with an upset customer to try to get them a product they could live with. But in the end, the policy had been stated ahead of time - No refunds on no-transfer objects. It's just me giving the product away for free. Mind if I present you with a situation? Let's say there was a problem with the vendor, and someone who thought they were buying product "A" and ended up buying product "B" because they both (inadvertently) had the same description. We're talking a real problem, one that you actually had to fix in the vendor. Would you give them a refund, even though you couldn't verify that they actually deleted the no-transfer object?
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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01-27-2006 06:10
From: Argent Stonecutter Mind if I present you with a situation?
Let's say there was a problem with the vendor, and someone who thought they were buying product "A" and ended up buying product "B" because they both (inadvertently) had the same description. We're talking a real problem, one that you actually had to fix in the vendor. Would you give them a refund, even though you couldn't verify that they actually deleted the no-transfer object? It's never happened, I'm pretty carefull about how I set up my vendors. That said, yes. If the situation was actually an *error* on my part, of course I would work to make things right. My first choice would be to simply give them the product they originaly wanted free, but if push came to shove, yes, I would give a refund. If it's just that they don't like what they got for whatever reason, no.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-27-2006 06:28
From: Jakkal Dingo One of the BIGGEST problems I've had is people buying one of my prim avs, and getting the wrong gender (Since male and female are sold seperately). In all honesty, the way your vendors are set up, they're pretty hard to figure out sometimes. I've seen people pick the no-mod version instead of the mod version, and I've helped people find the right av in your vendors a couple of times when they just couldn't navigate them. As far as people who end up a male in a female avatar, or vice versa... maybe you could simply sell the AVs unisex, with both male and female copies of whichever components aren't shared? Or offer to sell them a "gender change kit" with the extra objects in it? I don't know exactly what the difference is... I have your hyena and it doesn't have anything obviously gender-specific. Of course it is a hyena, so maybe that's not one of the ones you'd notice.  Another vendor I bought an AV from, a zebra (hyena and zebra, sometimes I wonder how I live with myself), I wanted one of the components from the female version (the mane/hair looked more zebra-like to me), and asked if I could buy it separately rather than forking out the Lindens for another avatar ... which I was prepared to do. She just dropped the object on me, no charge.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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01-27-2006 06:31
From: Argent Stonecutter In all honesty, the way your vendors are set up, they're pretty hard to figure out sometimes. I've seen people pick the no-mod version instead of the mod version, and I've helped people find the right av in your vendors a couple of times when they just couldn't navigate them. I have to agree, though I wasn't originaly going to say anything this was more or less my initial response too, no offense meant.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-27-2006 06:33
From: Reitsuki Kojima It's never happened, I'm pretty carefull about how I set up my vendors. Oh, this definitely wasn't about you! I hope I didn't give that impression.
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Tanaquil Karuna
Aoi aoi kono hoshi ni
Join date: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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01-27-2006 06:44
Hear, hear. I've had to deal with a couple of people like this in SL, but way more than that in RL when it comes to computer problems (gotta love being bitched at by a guy because we didn't reinstall his crapload of illegal copies of Windows and the likes... sorry, pal, we're a *legit* business, you know ).
To go back on what Enabran posted: agree on it, and I try to do my best when customers have problems with my products, but I'll also admit that it's really hard to push myself to go over my leg for someone who, basically, has been treating me like crap from the start (a.k.a "your product sucks, I demand a refund NOW or I'll file an AR" vs "I have a problem with one of your outfits, could you please help me with that?" . A smile and a kind word have always helped the world better, I think. Sure, by bitching at the vendor, one can get their way, but by pointing at the problem politely and by being calm, they'll get more than just the bare minimum service.
I know that "the customer is king" (at least it's the expression we use in my country). It's just that, well, if the king is a benevolent one, don't things work better for everybody?
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Bertha Horton
Fat w/ Ice Cream
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 835
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01-27-2006 11:47
I scripted my vendors so they don't rant. 
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Trapped in a world she never made!
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