A posed questions

THe owner of a piece of land sells it and purchases a new larger plot which he builds a house on. A club moves in next door. clubs in general can cause lagging and spaming..for instance at the "grand opening" of the club the house owner, while trying to work on his house was bothered by the consant use of the "shout" command issuing forth from the club. the house owner wishes the club moved to a deffernt place...he however could not buy the club out even if it was willing to sell. what should I who am trying to buy land in this little area do? I cannot leave this area as i got a good price on the land i wish to buy...also part of the land i wish to buy would place me touching both the house owner's land and the club ower's. I would therefore in the middle of this dispute..what actions could be taken to repress the club? what could be done about the the house owner?
i welcom your thoughts and suggestions

You can mute the club owners, then you wont hear them shouting, and the lag.... maybe turn down your draw distance, but i doubt that would help too much.

The shouting spam announcements violate the TOS and the CS as follows:

From the TOS:

5. USER CONDUCT,5.1 Participant Conduct:
In addition to abiding at all times by the Community Standards, you agree that you shall not...vii)...otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;

From the CS:

The CS provides in section 6, Disturbing the Peace, "Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace."

Abuse report this offense and site the above 2 sections of the TOS and CS. Be sure to include the name of the offending member and the location in world where the spamming is happening. Good luck!

Personally I dont think those apply in this case. From the initial description the shouting occured during the running of the club by people, not by objects or items intentionally spamming. The shouts were used (based on what I've read) to conduct business not with the intent to solely spam neighbors. And the shouts were not soliciting or advertising, at least thats not stated in initial post. They were shouts to communicate to people ALREADY at the club. If the shouts were non-business related and not directed at club members already present, its not described that way by the initial post here. But given the lack of more details you have to give people the benefit of the doubt and not always assume the worst.

Agreed. Unless specifically told otherwise, I will assume this is typical club shouting between clubbers and not solicitation.

Hi joachim First of all welcome to SL and the forums. This is very common in SL when buying land on the mainland. You cannot predict who your neighbors will be. There are only a few solutions but sadly unless they are violating TOS then its something you will have to put up with.

1. Try talking to the owners and find out if you can work out something mutual that will be comfortable for both. Maybe see if they be willing to buy you out.

2. Consider renting land from an island owner. At least its not permanance and if you get a laggy neighbor then you can move easily without all the expense. Some island rentals have zoning laws where the whole sim is residential only. IM me IW for a recommendation if your interested.

3. Sell and find and established sim that you know what is there already. (However, keep in mind that alot of residents don't stay in one place very long)

4. Buy an island sim. This way you have control over the whole sim and who lives there. This is a very costly move, but it is the best solution to never having to worry about future neighbors.

That's all the help I can give. Good luck

MJ

Well it depends on the details (which are not provided) but I disagree.

Any club I have been in the actual patrons are more likely to be on IM than even chatting, let alone "shouting." I cant think of once when i saw a patron shouting in a club.

100% of the shouting that I have seen in clubs is in the form of:

- "ten seconds left for the raffle!"
- "sexiest in nothing contest tonight folks!"

etc. etc.

All done by the proprietors and all "solicitation and advertising" as per the quoted sections.

I'm not clear if you already have land in the sim and are looking to buy more or if you have no vested interest but are looking to buy land there because it is a good deal. I would consider that the reason it is priced low is because of the conditions you've described. If a good deal is what you're after, buy now and ignore/mute the neighbors. If the club build itself does not present a problem (i.e. lag) and it only drags down the sim performance during an event (due to additional avies), then this may be a good deal for you. The dynamics in a developing sim usually change with time and you may find that the club does not make a go of it and folds. The atmosphere may improve, and your land value could increase (since you're getting a good deal on it).

On the other hand, if you have little patience with drama, look to a more established sim. The higher cost you pay is the price of peace of mind but keep in mind that there are no guarantees.

If this is the case then IMO this interpretation is 100% wrong. If I am ALREADY in a club and someone says "hey the raffle is in 10 seconds", thats NOT advertising or soliciting. Thats attending to the customers and running a business. Most things considered advertising are done OUTSIDE of a club to bring people to the club. Sure a neighbor might over hear some of this, but these conversations/comments are directed at people ALREADY visiting the club.

Now I will concede that if there's someone/something spamming "ten seconds left for the raffle" and there isnt a raffle going on nor anyone at the club then yes thats spamming. But if people are there and there is a raffle, then thats just business between the club and its customers already present.

A shout is a shout if it extends beyond your land limitations and it harasses your neighbor. IF the shout extends that far then perhaps normal chat levels are sufficient.

Motivation for use of the shout doesnt change its nature, so it doesnt matter if the shout was part of normal business as usual.

Just so we are clear on this, how far does a shout travel and how much land do you need to own to "contain a shout"?

Also you may or may not have a valid point on the motivation, however my comments about the motivation behind such "shouting" were to help clear up what I felt was someone elses misconception of the nature of said "shouting". It was not to say "shouting is good" or to even make a judgement.

Of course it changes its nature. You're using a ridiculously broad definition of harassment. Good grief. Where is this going to end? Now we've got people claiming harassment if chat from a neighboring parcel leaks onto their land and if "photons" from something people consider unattractive cross a property line. It's absurd.

Chip, ive seen people whove been banned from other peoples land claiming the ban was harrasment.
Its getting to the stage we'll all have to live in identical housing association approved suburban houses, and have to whisper to each other as we mow our prim lawns.

These people need their own continent, lets call it stepford.

Here's a question!

It seems to me that lately, regular talking just doesn't go as far!

For example, if I am on the roof of the second floor of my build in Orion, someone on the ground below can't hear me.

And in my Andromeda lot, seems like I was always able to hear everyone on that lot anywhere. But lately, you might have to walk over to them!

Has something changed?

coco

to each his own...its really up to LL to decide. He asked what to do and thats really all he can do unless you have another suggestion for him, Chip. Any ideas?

Well this is all so academic without any info so I could be wrong also, but I would argue if the club is of "regular" size (whatever that is ), then maybe shouting isn't necessary.

My point was that if your next door to a club and they shout out stuff that is essentially "advertising" that it's covered under the original clauses mentioned in the way that was described.

It's "spam" because of the commercial content, as opposed to a shout like "I'M HAVING FUN AT LAGGY CLUB!!!" made by a customer which is non-commercial content.

This whole thing seems stupid though as a simple mute would solve it wouldn't it?

No. Someone shouting out "hey people, the raffle drawing is in 10 secs" is NOT advertising. That is totally different than the tradional advertising and soliciting that LL is referring to.

It would probably take a dozen or more mutes in the initial weeks and 1 or 2 here and there afterwards. But yes, it would.

Disagree.

This shouting we are talking about is commercial content. It's not so much informational as it is the "pump up the crowd at my event" kind of stuff. It's repetitive declarative statements as opposed to conversation.

I would maintain that "commercial shouting" of any kind is spam if it comes to you on your property. It's covered under the repetitive transmission of unwanted content clause anyway.

yes okay I see ya'lls point you need more information...what information are you looking for and ill try to supply it...I after all posetd to hear yall's opinion on this problem.....

I do own land near this club...next door infact

The only thing you really can do is try to find like minded ppl to start a type of residential sim. Or find a residential sim to live on. Perhaps buy an island. But for the average player moving around buying and selling or buying an island is not practical.

There is no recourse against the club owner. I hear you loud and clear though that is one of my pet peeves and I have moved numerous times due to clubs and games. They lag sims where I like to just quietly build. When I can't build where I own property I too get frustrated. I hope you find a nice quiet spot somewhere

Cat

Not really Chip after all everyone is paying for that land each month, they just expect to enjoy it is all. That's the way I read it anyways.

If I rent in a mall I'm certainly not going to put a house in the space lol. It works both ways I think.

Cat

This is greifing. he has a right to his view. LL should show some leadership and take down the club, since it id boradcasting its ugliness into the neighboors sim. It had to be said.

Thats very assuming on your part. If a group of people had just arrived to the club and a raffle was taking place, a host would probably say something to give them an opportunity to enter. Whether its to inform them or even to "pump up the crowd", I dont see where it violates any TOS.

But you state that ANY statements relating to a business is improper, therefore the quantity of said statements are irrelevent to you, even if just once.

By the same token, couldnt the same be applied to private residents? Spam does NOT have to be commercial. Lets say Im running a business and there's a house next door and I hear someone there say "Hey Daizy, Im in the hot tub", couldnt I make the same claim against them?? "Hey they are promoting their private residence to their friends/guests and its interfering with my right to run a business! I dont want my customers to hear their private conversations." But seriously, I think neither are valid.

If the club and the drama doesn't bother you now, then buy the land. It's probably priced low because of these issues.

My advice is to politely talk to the club owner and ask if they could possibly cut down on the shouts. Maybe they can use repeaters instead. If he's still unhappy with the outcome he can offer his land for sale to the club to give them additional buffer room so they won't annoy the next person as much. The most important thing is to be polite. If you create an adversarial situation with the club your chances of a favorable outcome becomes nil.