from what I have read in these forums it would appear that there are consenting adults in this world (RW) that can have high speed Internet have a good enough computer to run SL but have absolutely no way to get there account verified ?
can this be true?
is it possible that in the year 2006 that some one can have all that is needed to enter this world (SL) but not have a means of paying for it.
how do people pay for other things on line.
Believe me I am trying to wrap my tiny brain around this but really can't understand how this can even be possible.
I am sincerely trying to understand this I really am but having a hard time believing that a consenting adult cant get verified in this day in age.
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question about unverified accounts |
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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07-13-2006 19:57
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Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
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07-13-2006 20:00
Consider that LL only allows two accounts per CC.
Also consider that they have not changed this to allow people to make multiple alts despite their opening of the floodgates. And lastly, not everyone can afford or desires more than one CC; I know many people who have none. _____________________
everyone loves phedre (excluding chickens), its in the TOS  |
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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07-13-2006 20:02
Consider that LL only allows two accounts per CC. Also consider that they have not changed this to allow people to make multiple alts despite their opening of the floodgates. And lastly, not everyone can afford or desires more than one CC; I know many people who have none. this does not answer my question. I can certainly see why they would limit how many accounts you can verified. I am asking about folks that only want one or two accounts that can't get verified _____________________
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Infiniview Merit
The 100 Trillionth Cell
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 845
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Agreed!
07-13-2006 20:07
Totally valid question.
I consider SL a priveledge rather than a right. _____________________
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Allana Dion
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,230
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07-13-2006 20:09
I have an issue with this too. I want to accept it when people say that being in the country theyre in it just isn't as easy. But then I speak to my friends who are in thailand and germany, england, canada, australia... and none of them have any issues and say it isnt difficult. So as far as that argument goes I only admit that I'm not knowledgeable enough to say either way.
As far as in the US though, people saying they can't get verified. I don't accept that argument. At the check cashing place around the corner from my own house you can buy a prepaid credit card for 40$. This is not money you're throwing away, this is still real money. You buy the card, you use it to get verified on SL then you take it to the grocery store and spend the 40 bucks if you want.... use it to fill up the gas tank on your car.. whatever. And even that measure is only necessary if you cant get a plain old bank account. LL accepts debit cards for checking accounts too. Im sorry if you cant get a checking account or buy a gift card you have bigger problems than not geting in SL. _____________________
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Allana Dion
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,230
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07-13-2006 20:14
And lastly, not everyone can afford or desires more than one CC; I know many people who have none. But they can afford high speed internet? See this is where people lose me. _____________________
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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07-13-2006 20:15
But they can afford high speed internet? See this is where people lose me. Particularly when broadband is MUCH more expensive in some of those nations than it is in America. P2 _____________________
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
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07-13-2006 20:28
from what I have read in these forums it would appear that there are consenting adults in this world (RW) that can have high speed Internet have a good enough computer to run SL but have absolutely no way to get there account verified ? can this be true? is it possible that in the year 2006 that some one can have all that is needed to enter this world (SL) but not have a means of paying for it. how do people pay for other things on line. Believe me I am trying to wrap my tiny brain around this but really can't understand how this can even be possible. I am sincerely trying to understand this I really am but having a hard time believing that a consenting adult cant get verified in this day in age. Its quite simple really...in the vast majority of cases, an average citizen of any country really only does economic business in their own country...yes...even today. Take as an example, Amazon.com. Amazon.com is used by Americans, Canadians, and much of the Americas...but not by Europe, Asia, etc. Amazon.com operates totally seperate websites, infrastructures and economic systems and billing in France, Great Britian, Japan, etc for other parts of the world to buy. Someone in Great Britian simply is not allowed to buy from Amazon.com US...unless they happen to own an American Credit card...which is rare. Likewise, Americans are not allowed to buy or do business with Amazon.jp in Japan. Much of this has to do with payment infrastructures that are limited to agreements made between countries and business to allow for what is called "Regionalization". Basically it is an agreement to let European companies in on the action when it comes to handling European transaction, and the Japanese in on Asian transactions, etc. It's a lot more complex than this, but I am simplifying for the sake of expediancy. A CC in Germany or Japan or Great Britian may not be accepted by say Egypt or Argentina, or the US. Mainly because the various finiancial institution and corporate bodies and governments have agreements that way. It is the same reason why a company like say World of warcraft has a seperate distributor and paymnent and billing company and system in Europe or Asian from the US. The European WoW companies will not accept a US CC to play WoW Euro. Why? Because they have an agreement with the US distributors of WoW not to. Simple as that. Its all about regional groups maintaining their spheres of influence. I worked for years in this business and I know it far more complex even than I am making it seem...but this should hopefully give you an idea why this sort of thing happens. A German can buy online just fine. From a German or Euro website. But if someone from a another country wants to do business with a company that does not for one reason or agreement or another do business with that country. That person is then out of luck...unless they can find some other country that does business with their country that also does business with the US, etc. There are often ways around these things, but they are VERY difficult. Sure...as one person pointed out, some US CC are acceptied fine in forgein countries...especially and usually only by American owned businesses or businesses that cater to Americans though. And its less often that forgein CCs are accepted in the US. _____________________
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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07-13-2006 20:39
Its quite simple really...in the vast majority of cases, an average citizen of any country really only does economic business in their own country...yes...even today. Take as an example, Amazon.com. Amazon.com is used by Americans, Canadians, and much of the Americas...but not by Europe, Asia, etc. Amazon.com operates totally seperate websites, infrastructures and economic systems and billing in France, Great Britian, Japan, etc for other parts of the world to buy. Someone in Great Britian simply is not allowed to buy from Amazon.com US...unless they happen to own an American Credit card...which is rare. Likewise, Americans are not allowed to buy or do business with Amazon.jp in Japan. Much of this has to do with payment infrastructures that are limited to agreements made between countries and business to allow for what is called "Regionalization". Basically it is an agreement to let European companies in on the action when it comes to handling European transaction, and the Japanese in on Asian transactions, etc. It's a lot more complex than this, but I am simplifying for the sake of expediancy. A CC in Germany or Japan or Great Britian may not be accepted by say Egypt or Argentina, or the US. Mainly because the various finiancial institution and corporate bodies and governments have agreements that way. It is the same reason why a company like say World of warcraft has a seperate distributor and paymnent and billing company and system in Europe or Asian from the US. The European WoW companies will not accept a US CC to play WoW Euro. Why? Because they have an agreement with the US distributors of WoW not to. Simple as that. Its all about regional groups maintaining their spheres of influence. I worked for years in this business and I know it far more complex even than I am making it seem...but this should hopefully give you an idea why this sort of thing happens. A German can buy online just fine. From a German or Euro website. But if someone from a another country wants to do business with a company that does not for one reason or agreement or another do business with that country. That person is then out of luck...unless they can find some other country that does business with their country that also does business with the US, etc. There are often ways around these things, but they are VERY difficult. Sure...as one person pointed out, some US CC are acceptied fine in forgein countries...especially and usually only by American owned businesses or businesses that cater to Americans though. And its less often that forgein CCs are accepted in the US. so how did all the euros and others from other countries from around the world get in to second life when you had to have a CC to sign up with SL. _____________________
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
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07-13-2006 20:51
As I already stated there are ways to bypass this, and some people in other countries DO have access to American CCs. Just as I managed to do a work around and play WoW on the Euro servers. But, this is not something everyone...or even most in other countries can do.
Even here in the US, LL refused to accept one of my CC after almost 2 years of using it. When I contacted the CC company they said they were no longer allowed to do business with the payment company LL uses for billing. I had to switch to my second card for SL. Its like phone service, or a utility. I can get cable Tv where I amm...as can most people in MOST places. But that doesn't mean I can use any cable company i choose. By agreements between businesses and governments, I am restricted to doing business with only the cable or phone companies that are "allowed" to operate in my area. International finiacial and business agreements likewise limit compettition and trade between countries in a similar manner. Trade is not cut off by any means...but it must flow in allowed channels. If you happen to live in a region or country that simply does not have access to the company you want to do business with due to local agreements...you either find a work around or you are out of luck. Americans are largely oblivious to all this, but trust me, most Europeans and other countries about the world are well aquainted with the frustrations of these limitations. As any European gamer who has to wait 6 months to play a game that is already running and released in the US can tell you. I worked for 4 years designing systems for Amazon.com. I had to handle this sort of thing every day. _____________________
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Merlyn Bailly
owner, AVALON GALLERIA
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 576
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07-13-2006 21:01
But they can afford high speed internet? See this is where people lose me. My point exactly -- I don't have a "real" CC - I use my debit card. I don't know of any online provider -- in the US or ANY OTHER COUNTRY -- which does not take a credit card as a requirement of setting up a broadband account. So this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is absolute b*llsh*t. _____________________
SL used to be a game -- now it's a corporate advertising/marketing platform.
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
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07-13-2006 21:05
My point exactly -- I don't have a "real" CC - I use my debit card. I don't know of any online provider -- in the US or ANY OTHER COUNTRY -- which does not take a credit card as a requirement of setting up a broadband account. So this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is absolute b*llsh*t. Try to use your American CC right now to set up an account on the European World of Warcraft website. Trust me. You can't. The bullshite is from people who have no clue what they are talking about or how these things work and yet are so bloody convinced they have all the answers anyway. To be fully honest...I am utterly tired now of even trying to explain a relatively simple concept to those that have made a concious choice they will not understand. It's pointless, and I don't have the energy for it anymore. _____________________
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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07-13-2006 21:15
well then if all this is true then LL needs to do something that gives more options to people to become verified. because being completely anonymous is completely unacceptable if you plan on doing any business in SL buying or selling. complete anonymity can even make the best of us think we can do what ever we want regardless of any moral values we have.
this is how I look at some one who is unverified I see them as being completely anonymous and I am not sure I want to do business with some one who is anonymous even to LL. I know baning some one based solely on there verified status may hurt some legitimate residents but as the population grows so will the number of unverified accounts and the trouble we see now with only a relatively few unverified trouble makers will grow right along side with the population. So banning unverified accounts may become a necessity rather then an option or choice. _____________________
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
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07-13-2006 21:30
I agree completely that it would be a wonderful thing for everyone who wants to be verified to be able to do so. And, based on Philip's anniversary speech and recent comments on the decentralized vision of SL he has and is working towards, this may someday happen. It will require more than one means, method and distribution of SL however by companies other than just LL. And, that is his goal, as he has stated. Open sourcing SL and allowing other companies around the world to run SL sims and services will allow regionalized SL availablity to most anyone at that point. But...that is a ways off.
In the meantime, the change in registration...while not doing anything to help more people get verified (as that is outside LL own control...they do not control the agreements between finiancial groups and countries that currently limit this and likely do not currently have interest by distribution companies in other countries to host SL there. or perhaps Philip's plans aimply aren't ready for regionalization stage yet)...has now, for the first time allowed many who couldn't play SL AT ALL to finally get in. Its a small step, but a good one. LL stated when they did this change that a big part of the reason was to open access of SL to those in regions of the world that could not then access it. This was a good step. Yes...it also had bad consequences of allowing easier access to griefers and those underage. Everyone acknowledges that, even LL. Perhaps they should have waited a few months to have better anti-griefing tools in place before the change. That can be debated forever. But, while we all gree we need better ways to deal with griefers and teens, I do feel that opening SL to those that have wanted in but couldn't access it was a good thing overall. Some people are just so determined to see conspiracy theories and the worst in everything the will overlook anything positive that was intentded to shout at the top of their virual lungs about the negative side effects. I prefer seeing the entire picture myself. _____________________
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-13-2006 22:12
Try to use your American CC right now to set up an account on the European World of Warcraft website. Trust me. You can't. The bullshite is from people who have no clue what they are talking about or how these things work and yet are so bloody convinced they have all the answers anyway.
>>> pft this argument is moot , the blocking is made because they zone WoW by world region, US zone, european zones, nothing to do with credit cards _____________________
 tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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07-13-2006 22:13
But why do they NEED to be verified?
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Allana Dion
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,230
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07-13-2006 22:22
My point exactly -- I don't have a "real" CC - I use my debit card. I don't know of any online provider -- in the US or ANY OTHER COUNTRY -- which does not take a credit card as a requirement of setting up a broadband account. So this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is absolute b*llsh*t. Thats a bit harsh Merlyn. I wasn't saying the argument was bullshit. I was saying that with the knowledge I have coming from the place I live, that it's an argument I don't understand and have a hard time with. And in fact, my own cable connection was not set up using a credit card. I gave them my name and address and they send me a bill every month. A credit card is not a "requirement" to set up broadband. I do not have enough knowledge of worldwide banking to judge whether Zoe and others arguments are valid so I wont judge. I do however have knowledge of US banking. It is the argument that one can't or won't get a US CC coming from a US citizen that I say is a false argument given how many different ways there are to get around it. _____________________
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Ryan00 Odets
just a stupid redneck!
Join date: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 289
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07-13-2006 22:24
My point exactly -- I don't have a "real" CC - I use my debit card. I don't know of any online provider -- in the US or ANY OTHER COUNTRY -- which does not take a credit card as a requirement of setting up a broadband account. So this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is absolute b*llsh*t. Now once again you thinking you have the most knowledge proves you to be unintelligent. My internet provider DOESNT require me to have credit card !! If you must know it is Centurytel.net. _____________________
~~~~~~~ryan00~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Jon Hunt
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2006
Posts: 47
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07-13-2006 23:36
Well, there are many factors in MY mind that make their verification process a hassle.
Although the internet is so wide spread at the moment, and fairly secure, many people still have the fear of releasing information (ie credit card information) on the internet. I know for a fact my father and mother will never do so, saying they don't know how safe it is (Actually 6 years ago when I was applying for universities I had to directly speak with the university to work out payment since my parents refused to pay by credit card on the internet). I think that may be a logical reason for not becoming verified. Also, after verification, their SL account is basically OPEN to being charged to the cc at anytime. If they get hacked, someone can buy a LOT of $L, etc etc... So who knows. That's just my two sense. I am verified, however, I am not premium. I do not think premium is worth going until I have the building skills, designing skills, and basic idea of what I want long term in SL down. |
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Chie Salome
~( * w * )~
Join date: 19 May 2005
Posts: 221
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07-13-2006 23:45
Take as an example, Amazon.com. Amazon.com is used by Americans, Canadians, and much of the Americas...but not by Europe, Asia, etc. Amazon.com operates totally seperate websites, infrastructures and economic systems and billing in France, Great Britian, Japan, etc for other parts of the world to buy. Someone in Great Britian simply is not allowed to buy from Amazon.com US...unless they happen to own an American Credit card...which is rare. Likewise, Americans are not allowed to buy or do business with Amazon.jp in Japan. Just FYI this is completely untrue. I live in Japan and I only have Japanese credit cards but I have no problem buying from Amazon.com, except for some items like computer software that are explicitly stated otherwise. I don't do it often just because I can find most of what I want at Amazon.co.jp. Likewise, my friend over in the U.S. with American credit cards has no problem ordering at Amazon.co.jp. It's just the shipping cost sucks. Most of the credit card companies here are affiliated with VISA, MasterCard and American Express. It's usually a phone call away to get a VISA or MC compatible one if you already have a credit card. I dunno, you seem to like complicating things from "professional" point of view, but I thought companies like VISA are not so much of "American CC" but international payment systems nowadays? |
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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07-14-2006 00:47
My point exactly -- I don't have a "real" CC - I use my debit card. I don't know of any online provider -- in the US or ANY OTHER COUNTRY -- which does not take a credit card as a requirement of setting up a broadband account. So this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is absolute b*llsh*t. Our Broadband provider here (it is US) will also take a cash deposit instead of a cc. So it is possible. _____________________
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Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
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07-14-2006 00:59
Most of the credit card companies here are affiliated with VISA, MasterCard and American Express. It's usually a phone call away to get a VISA or MC compatible one if you already have a credit card. The only reason I now have a MasterCard is that US companies constantly refused to accept my Visa Card. I know of many companies who Refuse AmEx too... Now, it's a different arguement than Zoe's but really to do business globally, you have to either have 2 or 3 CCs or be extremely lucky. _____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
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CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
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07-14-2006 01:55
I'm in the UK & have only a VISA card. It wasn't chosen specially and seems to be one of the most commonly available.
Linden Lab accepts it and I've used it to buy things off the web from all over the world including amazon.com (as opposed to amazon.co.uk) apart from instances where there is specifically a regionalisation policy restricting sales of certain products. If my experience is anything to go by, globalisation has come a long way since the restrictive scenario some are depicting here. |
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Wendel Gascoigne
Registered User
Join date: 19 May 2005
Posts: 226
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07-14-2006 02:05
Just to confirm a few things said in this thread.
- I live in UK and happily order goods from Amazon.co.uk, .com, .fr and .jp A credit card is a credit card is a credit card. You can use it to buy all over the world. Restrictions on software might be imposed by the distributor (I can't order games from Amazon.com but can from Gamestop.com). - The only reason you can't subscribe to WoW in a different region than yours is because Blizzard prevents you based on your billing address. Not the CC's fault at all. Just a decision from the developer. As a counter example, I've subscribed to US only MMORPG's and played on the US servers of others (like AC, EQ, EQ2, DAOC, ...) rather than go for their European counterparts. There are a few ISP's which don't require a CC. But the vast majority of users who have the machine and connection to play SL will have the means to verify their account with a CC. For those who can't, LL definitely should put in place alternative modes of verification. But if you are over 18 and do not have a CC, you know that you don't fulfill one of the current requirements (Paypal aside) to be verified. It's maybe not a choice exactly but more a personal circumstance that you can decide whether to change (just like you could decide to get broadband to play the game if you were still on dial-up). Wendel |
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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07-14-2006 02:27
I didn't have a credit card for about a year and a half after i got my high speed broadband connection..... see, I paid for my PC with cash, paid my braoadband bills with cash.
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