I'm wondering why there seems to be so many designers out there that set their clothing to no transfer. I understand copy/mod/no trans, cuz if you can copy and mod it, then you could take their original design, change it up a bit and resell - causing much uproar and forum drama.
I also understand why you wouldn't want copy/trans. (many copies made and sold for cheaper than original design)
I guess I just don't get the whole copy/no trans issue with clothing. I would prefer not to gunk up my inventory with multiple copies of the same item. Although I get the "folder" drag and drop ease of dressing thing...seems like no one I've met uses it much, if at all.
I'm a fan of being able to either give away my old stuff to newbies or resell it at my own yardsale. (I don't have them often...just had one with over 1000 items.!!!)
Copy/no trans fans, let's hear from you...
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Why so many "no transfer" items? |
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 07:11
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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03-02-2006 07:13
Because they want you to BUY MORE.
Much to my annoyance, since I my inventory seems to have hole in it somewhere. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-02-2006 07:13
I like no copy/trans as it lets you buy something and then give it away.
I like copy/no trans so you can have the saame shirt in a different folder for each of the three outfits you wear it with. When my clothes hit both options will be available. Seperate boxes.. |
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Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
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03-02-2006 07:14
Short answer is if you make something Copy/Transfer, then people can take it and resell it, give it away, ect. If you make it JUST copy, then you can make multiple copies of the item in your inventory, and put it in different folders and easily switch outfits by dragging the folder onto your AV. So if you make it transfer, then customers can only have one copy in their inventory and can't make different outfit folders as easily.
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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03-02-2006 07:22
I get complaints with both copy/no trans and no copy/trans. However I found I got fewer complaints when my items are copy/no trans, so that's how I leave most of my items.
It would be nice if the Lindens would implement some kind of "All copies go to transfer" option. That way you could copy an item as much as you like (so it can be used in different outfits) but if you would like to transfer the item, you can, and ALL copies of that item will be removed from your inventory. This way people could have their cake and eat it too. _____________________
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Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
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03-02-2006 07:25
The real answer is that people were ripping off creators in the past.
Something sells cheap (or even free)... someone comes along, grabs it and hawks it to newbies for L$500 a time. Creators complained and now things are sold either no copy or no transfer. It's a shame it's needed, because it can be awkward, but something had to be done to stop the freeloaders. ... er, as Aimee said... _____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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03-02-2006 07:33
I get complaints with both copy/no trans and no copy/trans. However I found I got fewer complaints when my items are copy/no trans, so that's how I leave most of my items. It would be nice if the Lindens would implement some kind of "All copies go to transfer" option. That way you could copy an item as much as you like (so it can be used in different outfits) but if you would like to transfer the item, you can, and ALL copies of that item will be removed from your inventory. This way people could have their cake and eat it too. OHHH! I like that idea, Aimee! "All copies go to transfer" sounds like a great idea as a sales control option. Personally, I prefer being able to copy my clothes and hair, so I can set up folders for various complete looks. I keep my no-copy stuff in a seperate folder, for special users. I sell most of my clothes 'copy/no trans'. However, I will gladly sell the same thing as 'no copy/trans OK', if someone wants to give an item away, or to have the chance to do so later. I do just the opposite for my housewares items, like kneeling cushions. You can buy one as 'no copy/trans OK'. If you want 'copy/no trans', so you can scatter them around your home, I'll sell it to you, but at a higher price. That is because copies of furnishings are likely to be used at the same time, where you can only wear one copy of that dress at a time. _____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
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03-02-2006 07:33
If the inventory had an alias feature, then clothes could all be no-copy/transfer-ok without impinging on the ability to put the same item in several quick-change folders. You could then use the same underwear in several outfits, but still give/sell it to someone else. You'd just be warned that you are about to break X aliases, and given a list of the pathnames to each before competing the transfer, so you can abort.
Another option would be to make a quick-change menu where full and partial sets can be defined and changed with a click or two. A full set would remove all clothing and attachments, and wear/attach everything in the set. (That is what we have now when you drag a folder to your avatar.) A partial set would only replace/add to what was already worn. (Which is more like dragging each piece one at a time to your avatar.) Gestures might even tie into this so you can quick-change with a single keypress. (I'd suggest this interface also support "null" items, so I can define one partial set with an attachment on my hand, and another with a "null" hand attachment that will remove it.) A small feature change that I'd like to suggest: Two new menu items added to the right-click pop-up menu for folders. One to "Wear Outfit" (full set change) and one to "Wear Items" (partial set change). This doesn't solve the copy/trans issue, but it would lessen the chance of dragging a folder of your clothes onto some random avatar that came between you and your camera. (And maybe we can have the same "null" items here too.) _____________________
~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity) |
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
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03-02-2006 07:43
...Of course, aliases or remove-all-on-transfer-of-one don't cover the issue of the modifiable flag. If a moddable pair of pants is in one folder, and a second copy in another folder has ben modified into shorts, then technically they are now two separate items, one a derivative of the other. They would both have to vanish if one was given/sold to make that work.
Items would have to be linked together with some additional data-trail so derivations could be traced. This would have to be unique to clothing and body parts, I think. Creating derivatives of modifiable objects would be too complicated to make transfering all copies together a viable option. The complexities of linking comes into play. If "modifiable" had a "linkable" permission split from it, this would make things more clear. Then a pair of shoes might be modifiable to scale and color them to taste, but they couldn't be incorporated into another object if set no-link. The removal of all with the transfer of one could then be clearly defined. _____________________
~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity) |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-02-2006 07:52
Items are set no transfer because a year and a half ago content providers were told by the masses to "shut up, stop bitching, use the permissions given or you have no right to complain about people ripping you off".
Frankly I find any complaints about us doing just that to be deeeeeeeeply hillarious. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Torrid Midnight
Work in progress
Join date: 13 May 2003
Posts: 814
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03-02-2006 08:24
I sell most of my items no copy/trans because I had the opposite problem Aimee did, people complaining about no transfer. It's just not possible for me to sell both versions in my store, doubling the number of prims. I'm thinking of perhaps having my store in Midnight City contain all copy/no trans and my store in Chartreuse the opposite. I do that with the few hairstyles I have and it seems to work out well. Other than that I'm not sure what else I can do, it's hard to please everyone.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-02-2006 08:29
I sell most of my items no copy/trans because I had the opposite problem Aimee did, people complaining about no transfer. It's just not possible for me to sell both versions in my store, doubling the number of prims. I'm thinking of perhaps having my store in Midnight City contain all copy/no trans and my store in Chartreuse the opposite. I do that with the few hairstyles I have and it seems to work out well. Other than that I'm not sure what else I can do, it's hard to please everyone. Set up a very simple vendor. Each vendor is one prim. In one state, it sells the copy/no trans, in one it sells the no copy/trans. A click toggles between them. Almost no impact on the sim for a script that simple, if well coded, and no increase in prim count. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
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03-02-2006 08:30
I like Tiger's idea. This would also be beneficial to vehicles, which almost have to be copy incase they get lost/eaten by a sim border issue, and are very seldom transfer as a result.
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foehn Breed
More random than random
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,142
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03-02-2006 08:34
I don't mind the No copy/trans, it's understandable, it's the No mod that irks me.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-02-2006 08:40
foehn you'll be glad to here I feel the same way
 Everything of mine is (and will be) 'yes' to modify. If you want to change textures, feel free, make sleeves, remove them, have fun! Its your second life, and you paid for the item. Craft it to your specifics. Make it your own shirt, jacket, couch, rose.. |
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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03-02-2006 08:48
Sinced we have started selling clothes just this week, my GF and I had this exact discussion last night and came to the same conclusion as everyone that items have to be *either* copy *or* transferable* but not both. That much is obvious.
I favoured copy/no trans and she the reverse, but I think I have changed my mind from reading this thread. I am thinking now that I just don't know that many women who make entire "outfits" in folders and drag them onto themselves. Most seem to organise their closets in sections of seperates like I do. Making conceptual folders of "pants" "tops" "shoes" etc. or maybe "shiny stuff!" or "formal wear." Then you get dressed just as you normally would in RL trying on one top and then another etc. until you get the look you want. I am thinking now that the only reason for allowing "copy" is because sometimes when you buy a full "outfit" you mostly only wear one or two seperates items from the outfit, but still don't want to "break up" the outfit. Like I buy a lot of pixel dolls stuff just for the underwear or the top and dont wear the rest of it. I still like to keep the outfit together in it's folder for the times I do want to wear it though, so to have the items copyable solves that dilema. On the other hand, if you are buying seperates in the first place, like a top or a skirt, you would be putting it in your "tops" or "skirts" folder anyway, so there is no need to have a copy function unless you are actually constructing pre-assembled outfits out of seperates and I just dont think that happens very much. This also replicates the real life situation in that if a girl has a designer dress ensemble in her closet, she generally wont give it away even if never worn, but if you get tired of that green top or whatever you can give it to your friend in exchange for the brown pants. I think it should be copy/no trans for "outfits" and no copy/trans for "seperates." _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 08:52
You didn't read my post, did you?
I know all that. Short answer is if you make something Copy/Transfer, then people can take it and resell it, give it away, ect. If you make it JUST copy, then you can make multiple copies of the item in your inventory, and put it in different folders and easily switch outfits by dragging the folder onto your AV. So if you make it transfer, then customers can only have one copy in their inventory and can't make different outfit folders as easily. |
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 08:53
NICE AIMEE! I like the way you think.
I get complaints with both copy/no trans and no copy/trans. However I found I got fewer complaints when my items are copy/no trans, so that's how I leave most of my items. It would be nice if the Lindens would implement some kind of "All copies go to transfer" option. That way you could copy an item as much as you like (so it can be used in different outfits) but if you would like to transfer the item, you can, and ALL copies of that item will be removed from your inventory. This way people could have their cake and eat it too. |
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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03-02-2006 08:57
I sell most of my items Copy/Mod but no Trans because most people would like to make multiple copies of a plant and they would like to re-size it to fit their area. However, lots of people like to buy flowers for their honey too, so what I have done recently was to have created a "No Copy/Transfer" section and I have flowers there that are set up just for people who want to buy flowers and give them to someone else.
It's a tough call. If you set all the permissions, copy/mod/transfer then the next thing you know, someone is screaming at you that they paid 500 linden for one of your trees and it's messed up and your really confused because you don't sell a single item for 500 linden. So now you are in a position of having to support something that a) you did not sell and b)was sold for WAY more than you sell your items and c) was stolen from you. Sort of sucks. Like Amy says - Lindens need to fix the permissions. . _____________________
I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 09:00
Sarcasm Noted...
Items are set no transfer because a year and a half ago content providers were told by the masses to "shut up, stop bitching, use the permissions given or you have no right to complain about people ripping you off". Frankly I find any complaints about us doing just that to be deeeeeeeeply hillarious. |
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 09:00
Your ideas are great, gets me thinking. Thanks!
If the inventory had an alias feature, then clothes could all be no-copy/transfer-ok without impinging on the ability to put the same item in several quick-change folders. You could then use the same underwear in several outfits, but still give/sell it to someone else. You'd just be warned that you are about to break X aliases, and given a list of the pathnames to each before competing the transfer, so you can abort. Another option would be to make a quick-change menu where full and partial sets can be defined and changed with a click or two. A full set would remove all clothing and attachments, and wear/attach everything in the set. (That is what we have now when you drag a folder to your avatar.) A partial set would only replace/add to what was already worn. (Which is more like dragging each piece one at a time to your avatar.) Gestures might even tie into this so you can quick-change with a single keypress. (I'd suggest this interface also support "null" items, so I can define one partial set with an attachment on my hand, and another with a "null" hand attachment that will remove it.) A small feature change that I'd like to suggest: Two new menu items added to the right-click pop-up menu for folders. One to "Wear Outfit" (full set change) and one to "Wear Items" (partial set change). This doesn't solve the copy/trans issue, but it would lessen the chance of dragging a folder of your clothes onto some random avatar that came between you and your camera. (And maybe we can have the same "null" items here too.) |
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 09:01
Torrid, I think you have found the best solution to the current problem of differing customers preferences. Awesome!
I sell most of my items no copy/trans because I had the opposite problem Aimee did, people complaining about no transfer. It's just not possible for me to sell both versions in my store, doubling the number of prims. I'm thinking of perhaps having my store in Midnight City contain all copy/no trans and my store in Chartreuse the opposite. I do that with the few hairstyles I have and it seems to work out well. Other than that I'm not sure what else I can do, it's hard to please everyone. |
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Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
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03-02-2006 09:02
If the inventory had an alias feature,*BigSnip* Like, a shortcut? Copy Shortcut?  _____________________
I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
--------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50) ---------------  |
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George Flan
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 268
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No Transfer
03-02-2006 09:03
Then I have a question? I have bought a lot of things since I have been in sl. A few examples are: My fault that I did not read the notice on the vendor when I first got in the game and ended up buying three skins for over 1500 each only to find out I can't use them or like them, yeah I should have tried the demo first but didn't, I have bought several houses varying from 100 to 3000 dollars, and really only need a couple. The same goes with a few vehicles which I no longer want. I would love to be able to sale them in a yard sale, to a friend, or as a last resort give them to someone new. But NOOOO I can because of this no transfer. Now I have the choice of keeping them in my already LARGE inventory or deleting them which is throwing a lot of good money away. If I could sell them I could then go back to the vendor and buy more things from him or her.
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Lizbeth Marlowe
The ORIGINAL "Demo Girl"
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 544
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03-02-2006 09:09
Some interesting thoughts here, but I like Torrid's solution best. And the idea of changing states in the vendor would really make it rock.
Then LL need change nothing, at least for now, and your sales go up, because many folks won't buy and item because the perms are a certain way. I know I think long before I make a purchase that is no trans. (I'm sure I'm not the only one, and it probably goes similar for the other side of the fence) I don't make copies, and I don't necessarily need to mod, if I mod it, why'd I buy it? Sinced we have started selling clothes just this week, my GF and I had this exact discussion last night and came to the same conclusion as everyone that items have to be *either* copy *or* transferable* but not both. That much is obvious. I favoured copy/no trans and she the reverse, but I think I have changed my mind from reading this thread. I am thinking now that I just don't know that many women who make entire "outfits" in folders and drag them onto themselves. Most seem to organise their closets in sections of seperates like I do. Making conceptual folders of "pants" "tops" "shoes" etc. or maybe "shiny stuff!" or "formal wear." Then you get dressed just as you normally would in RL trying on one top and then another etc. until you get the look you want. I am thinking now that the only reason for allowing "copy" is because sometimes when you buy a full "outfit" you mostly only wear one or two seperates items from the outfit, but still don't want to "break up" the outfit. Like I buy a lot of pixel dolls stuff just for the underwear or the top and dont wear the rest of it. I still like to keep the outfit together in it's folder for the times I do want to wear it though, so to have the items copyable solves that dilema. On the other hand, if you are buying seperates in the first place, like a top or a skirt, you would be putting it in your "tops" or "skirts" folder anyway, so there is no need to have a copy function unless you are actually constructing pre-assembled outfits out of seperates and I just dont think that happens very much. This also replicates the real life situation in that if a girl has a designer dress ensemble in her closet, she generally wont give it away even if never worn, but if you get tired of that green top or whatever you can give it to your friend in exchange for the brown pants. I think it should be copy/no trans for "outfits" and no copy/trans for "seperates." |