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Is this just WRONG or is it me? |
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Versu Richelieu
Problem Child
Join date: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 134
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01-09-2006 11:22
On a recent browse thru SLexhange, i saw many gadgets made explicitly to spy on others. Listening gadgets, invisibilty gadgets etc.
Why are things like this permitted in SL at all? It is creepy and wrong, imho. I am all for free expression of creativity, but this infringes on the rights of others, for no reason other than being a nosey little f*cker. Is privacy just something we cannot expect and all personal or private discussions must take place in IM, regardless of the impression that no one else is around? Am I the only one that feels this way? What do you think, SLers? LL?  _____________________
"Excuse me, but am I wearing a shirt?"
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-09-2006 11:26
Because you can't stop it without disabling a whole bunch of other things or having Inventory Police - either that, or LL aren't particularly bothered.
Yes, if you think people might be planting spies around your property. Don't know; it doesn't bother me. This is the internet, I've long been used to the idea that if I want real privacy I have to encrypt what I say. And IMs are easy. |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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01-09-2006 11:29
Totally agree, listeners particularly bother me. Privacy in SL is pretty much an impossibility but items like these only encourage spying and stalking.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-09-2006 11:37
Dunno about the other things, but hiding a listener on someone else's land is against the TOS.
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 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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01-09-2006 11:39
Dunno about the other things, but hiding a listener on someone else's land is against the TOS. Setting auto-return on your land keeps people from leaving you surprises. _____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43) |
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Maxwolf Goodliffe
Registered User
Join date: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 137
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01-09-2006 11:44
Need I mention that useless devices like this only contribute to the lag problem?
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Versu Richelieu
Problem Child
Join date: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 134
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01-09-2006 11:44
what about the spy doojobbies that follow you? Can they be detected or returned by autoreturn?
I don't claim to know how this crap works- 'cause i don't. My brain is not wired that way. But a day or two ago, someone had almost verbatim quotes that took place in a private meeting. Did someone blab? Maybe, probably- but it made me wonder- and get a raging case of the willies. _____________________
"Excuse me, but am I wearing a shirt?"
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Sera Cela
A little bit of crazy
Join date: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 197
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01-09-2006 11:44
Auto return is the way to go. Also remember, the only private communication is Instant message.
It's extremely easy to make a listener/bug. |
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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01-09-2006 11:55
Obviously LL couldnt patrol/police inventories, but it is odd to see stores openly selling it. Its like "hey if you use this its against TOS, wanna buy it?". So could I go around and buy up a bunch of 16m plots and put a sim nuker on it with a shiny red button that says "press here to nuke this sim"? Since owning a script to spy or nuke isnt something thats enforced, I guess its ok to leave one laying around on my land?
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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01-09-2006 12:39
And since on of you just left me an offline regarding this...
No. I do not make spy gear. The STLKR suit is easily detectable if you're... like... able to see. Also, the ProxEye is merely an avatar distance reader. The PixelNode (which did something LIKE what you are talking about) is not for sale, and is only used in areas that are deemed 'private' with permission from the landowners, who receive the feedback also. |
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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01-09-2006 12:40
I've seen some nasty cases of listening devices being planted, found 'em, and returned 'em. I've got some devices that are very handy in tracking these things down and killing them; if anyone wants a copy and a quick lesson, let me know!
Regards, -Flip _____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars! |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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01-09-2006 12:52
I've seen some nasty cases of listening devices being planted, found 'em, and returned 'em. I've got some devices that are very handy in tracking these things down and killing them; if anyone wants a copy and a quick lesson, let me know! Regards, -Flip I wouldn't mind one or two. I usually end up getting called into look for stuff like that. If only we could beacon llListen |
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Zoe Quatro
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 14
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01-13-2006 05:55
And you know, since ANYONE could make say... an alt... and come right up to you and you would NEVER know that it was maybe the person stalking you, and then they could engage you in conversation, maybe even pretend to be your best friend, or something like that...
You know, the things people do in this game that someone else might consider WRONG... well, its all a matter of your own point of view, isnt it? The ways some one could 'spy' on you in this game are truly endless... so dont sweat the little spy doojobbies, at least they are detectable. _____________________
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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01-13-2006 07:05
You know, the things people do in this game that someone else might consider WRONG... well, its all a matter of your own point of view, isnt it?. Not really. Placing a listener on someone elses land is against the TOS I think, and wrong. _____________________
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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01-13-2006 07:12
Not really. Placing a listener on someone elses land is against the TOS I think, and wrong. Kinda ironic when LL allows people to sell listeners that follow others. _____________________
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Max Case
Registered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 353
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01-13-2006 07:17
Setting auto-return on your land keeps people from leaving you surprises. not really. using temp on rez & an autorezzer would get around that i think. in theory at least. _____________________
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Max Case
Registered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 353
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01-13-2006 07:18
Kinda ironic when LL allows people to sell listeners that follow others. how so? And listeners can have a use for people who roleplay. _____________________
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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01-13-2006 07:30
I do, in fact, have something like that. It doesn't follow people. I drop it and usually set it for subchannel. It's handy to see what's issuing commands to weapons, or if some device of mine or a freinds throws a rod and needs to be fixed.
I don't like to sit on my horse doing nothing all day. But when it's time to herd cats, I got my catnip rope and velcro chaps ready. |
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Jacqueline Trudeau
Nogoodnik
Join date: 9 Jul 2005
Posts: 171
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01-13-2006 07:49
Am I the only one that feels this way? What do you think, SLers? LL? 5.1 Participant Conduct. In addition to abiding at all times by the Community Standards, you agree that you shall not: (i) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content that infringes or violates any third party rights; (ii) impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Linden employee, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity; (iii) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content that violates any law or regulation; (iv) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; _____________________
http://trudeauyachts.wordpress.com
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Newfie Pendragon
Crusty and proud of it
Join date: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,025
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01-13-2006 08:09
Obviously LL couldnt patrol/police inventories, but it is odd to see stores openly selling it. Its like "hey if you use this its against TOS, wanna buy it?". So could I go around and buy up a bunch of 16m plots and put a sim nuker on it with a shiny red button that says "press here to nuke this sim"? Since owning a script to spy or nuke isnt something thats enforced, I guess its ok to leave one laying around on my land? To play devil's advocate here for a moment... There's a difference between making an object of this type, selling it, and actually using it. The TOS doesn't forbid the making or selling of these objects, just their specific use. A store or website isn't violating the TOS by selling it; the person who buys it and clears a sim with it is violating the TOS. Personally I feel that if the object itself can only be used in a form that will violate the TOS, then its very existence should be a TOS violation. But that's not how it's currently written. - Newfie _____________________
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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01-13-2006 08:21
To play devil's advocate here for a moment... There's a difference between making an object of this type, selling it, and actually using it. The TOS doesn't forbid the making or selling of these objects, just their specific use. A store or website isn't violating the TOS by selling it; the person who buys it and clears a sim with it is violating the TOS. Personally I feel that if the object itself can only be used in a form that will violate the TOS, then its very existence should be a TOS violation. But that's not how it's currently written. - Newfie What if I bought a 16m plot in a sim, put up a vendor that had a sign that said "Press this button to nuke the sim", and when you pressed it gave/attached a bomb to you that exploded and crashed the sim? I agree with you on your points, but given them, wouldnt I be able to do what I just mentioned and not be held accountable too? _____________________
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Sable Sunset
Prim Herder
Join date: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 223
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01-13-2006 08:24
I don't own any of these devices and have never used them... but reading this thread a thought struck me - you've all spoken about how bad these are when someone else drops them onto your land without your knowledge (this may or may not be true - I'm not trying to argue the point) - but what about people using them themselves on their own land? Surely this perceived opportunity for abuse becomes someone exercising the right to monitor and defend their own property? Isn't that a legitimate use and reason to sell these items - and to allow them to be sold?
Just a thought...  _____________________
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Max Case
Registered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 353
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01-13-2006 08:24
dunno, since you advertise it as a sim crasher.
The thing with those sort of spy devices is that some groups may like to roleplay spy v. spy type games, where the players are not to use IMs. So you have to employ Counter Measures, so make sure your HQ isn't bugged. _____________________
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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01-13-2006 08:30
but what about people using them themselves on their own land? Surely this perceived opportunity for abuse becomes someone exercising the right to monitor and defend their own property? Isn't that a legitimate use and reason to sell these items - and to allow them to be sold? Just a thought... Fair point. But if its on your land why would it need to a) follow a person and b) be indetectable? If its your land you could them in specific places to cover your entire land. No need to follow people nor use super-super secret hiding techniques. _____________________
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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01-13-2006 08:32
dunno, since you advertise it as a sim crasher. The thing with those sort of spy devices is that some groups may like to roleplay spy v. spy type games, where the players are not to use IMs. So you have to employ Counter Measures, so make sure your HQ isn't bugged. Good point about calling it a sim crasher. I could just change the sign to say "Become a human bomb!" and if it just so happens to crash the sim the reports would have the customers name on it not the creators/sellers. Also a valid point about spy vs spy games, but if you use these device over land you dont own, then you are violating the TOS. Like I said before, if its over your own land why not use stagnate hidden listening devices? No need to follow someone. _____________________
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