Is changing Robin Linden the change that is needed...?

I am fairly sure he's talking about those of us that are adults, and if so, he's right.

Robin is great. Perhaps she just needs some assistance. We need a Batman Linden!.

The Second Life client is a 'product' delivered to us by Linden Lab. Lots of us are content creators who first invest in this client by paying Tier and then work to get some of that investment back.

Linden Lab has advertised Second Life as a platform like that for a long time.

At this time i pay for a product that isn't even worthy being named beta, let's just say it as an american: It SUCKS!

If you buy a car tomorow and it doesn't even start, or stops every 20 meter, would you like it if the one who sold it to you said: oh, bad luck! ??

I don't think so. For me Robin shouldn't have post at all if that was all she could come up with.
I know how 'games' work, i know all about customer service, i run a rl business too and what Linden Lab is brewing last few weeks is totaly out of controll.
I'm very sorry i'm not gonna pet them on the back because they were able to fix their stupidity in a few hours. It shouldn't happen in the first place!

They roll out updates that endanger the objects and textures i make, they roll out updates that erase hours and hours of work, they roll out updates that make it impossible to log in...
Bad luck? Where i live they call that: unprofessional!

I hope their investors have a sense of humour, i think this could be the last financial injection they had.
Boo, Linden Lab, boo!

*wipes screen* hahahahaha

Lewis

While I agree that this recent update has been a big flop, I don't think firing people is the answer.
What is needed is better organisation, planning and deployment (ie testing). The Lindens are all very talented, but talented people don't necessarily mean for good releases, organisation and planning are needed.
What we need is for most of the Lindens to concentrate on bug fixes and improvements to what we have, THEN we go back to new features. But making sure testing is kept all the way through.

This is how beta works. If LL are guilty of any wrong doing, it's advertising the project as anything more than an open (public) beta environment. But that's been true for years. People have been laughed right off these forums for saying so. Why are so many old timers all of a sudden up in arms over this fact?

In my few interactions with Robin Linden, I've found her to be a dedicated and extremely gracious LL employee. Robin is *not* the problem, and the OP is way out of line.

In fact, I've yet to have a Linden be rude to me, nor have any failed to try to help when I have asked for it. Thinking also here of Cyn, Jack, Torley, and Data... to name 4 who have helped me in the past.

I do agree with Lewis *gasp*, in that I'd love to see more Lindens in-world and interacting more with the population.

Because betas generally improve with each successive update?

That's not to say that SL hasn't. It has, in the big picture. However, there have been a few patches that were just bad, through and through. These make for acute irritation. I didn't know there was something wrong with being irritated when things go wrong and pleased when they don't.

Also, some "old timers", don't tow a line of either abject, undying optimism or <ahem> perpetual cynicism, and give credit or criticism when and where it's warranted.

To echo what Cristiano said - let's not kill the messenger, eh?

Robin was speaking for the company. This doesn't mean she or any one person is responsible for anything.

I also want to point how cowardly it is for someone to call for someone's job and post anonymously on some freebie alt as their first post.

...

I was frustrated with this weekend because Philip has stated on multiple occaisions that the absolute biggest thing that Linden Lab wants to avoid is content loss, and Linden's own actions to try and fix matters actually resulted in that very thing they were wishing to avoid.

I was also frustrated that the company, as a whole - and not any one individual - has still not seemed to fully embraced two ideas:

1. Unless it's an emergency patch, we need at least a week in Preview for every single change, however minor or trivial Linden Lab considers it.

2. When Linden Lab has big high profile events, patches should be put off until afterward.

I emphasize "fully", because Linden Lab has gotten much better. I also can only imagine the pressure put on developers and QA staff to put out features in a timely manner, especially considering Linden Lab is essentially in a race with Google Earth and other engines that are evolving.

With the kind of aggressive patching and upgrading Linden Lab does, I have long said that it needs a substantial increasing in the number of QA testers. There's something like 4 or 5 now. A year ago, it was 3. They're extremely qualified and talented people, but like all of Linden Lab, they are far overworked. My personal belief, and from experience helping Linden Lab on 1.6's open QA, is that with the volume of scenarios that really ought to be tested, Linden Lab should triple to quadruple its full time QA staff.

I also think Linden Lab needs to mandate that all employees spend X number of hours a week in world, exploring and playing, on non-Linden alts, as paid time.

Some more thoughts about the crashing and Relay for Life on my blog:
http://secondtense.blogspot.com/2006/07/relay-for-life-and-exploits.html

Well said.

Bingo. I <3 Robin and Torley, they are merely the messengers here and should not be shot.

As a matter of fact, I've had two occasions lately when Lindens responded to our problems personally, and resolved the issues very efficiently. Deanna was the one who chased down the griefer bounce script someone dropped on the sim, and Steve was the programmer who used our club as an example to figure out what the bug was with ban lists (and never said a word about my FlipTitle "I farkin HATE the update!". HUGE high fives to both of these Lindens.

I work in a large company, I know that sometimes corporate policy gets in the way of personalized service and true efficiency. But forgodsakes let's leave Robin and Torley out of this, they're only doing their job and doing it as best they can.

From what I can tell, there's no way for Robin or the other Lindens to win. No matter *what* they say or do, they're attacked by someone for it. No matter *how* they say or do anything, they're attacked by someone for it.

I thought Robin's post was a very sincere apology for and acknowledgement of the problems lately.

I say, "Thanks for all you do, Lindens." I enjoy SL and it is well worth the money I spend on it, warts and all.

True
It is said, when you do things correctly, noone knows you've done anything at all.
Well I think LL are doing a fabulous job! This patch hasn't affected my fun factor, business sales, or photo publication schedule in the least. I can still name loads more things that are wonderful about SL than I can things that are dodgy. Keep up the good work Lindens woohoo and assorted other cheers!

We also have to remember that the sheer amount of IMs that go out to Lindens regarding what is going on in world ("G's pushing me!", "W's shooting up the sandbox!", "P needs a Linden Tree removed that's overhanging his land!", "N built a giant penis on PG land!", "B is naked in the WA and shouting racial slurs" often keeps them so swamped that they can't be around all the time. And even when they are around, they are often so busy with IMs that they may appear to be ignoring the goings-on around them.

It surely takes an incredible amount of patience to be an in-world Linden as much as it does in the developer side of LL... I know it's patience I could never have. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with what I bet you folks go through... but I'm proud to volunteer and help out in the Mentor Program (well, pay /would/ be nice, but in general the people you meet are worth the work you do for them)

So next time you see one, put on your multitool and hug them. They're here to help the world, but they're also here for us. They show their support for us, let's show our support for them too.

just add my 2 cents the OP is out of line here and I don't think I could say anything any better then those that have posed here in Robins defence.

Robin and team are truly dedicated to second life and don't believe we would have a second life now if it were not for Robin and the rest of the team she comands.

Damn. This topic borders on treasonous. Don't know if I'd go around crapping in my food like that.

Mao Zedong? Is that you? The Cultural Revolution?

Yes, lets get rid of half the Linden population and send the other half to prim farms. We must get back to our cultural roots!

Forward, into the past!

Exactly. I will requote for the vision impaired:

We could use MORE Robins, not less.

If you all want more lindens to be visible, we the players will have a pretty big role in that. Just take a look at the forums.

When a Linden posts something here, more often than not LL is accused of having a hidden agenda to screw us. When nothing is posted, they are accused of not being visible enough. It doenst take a genius to see that that when a LL posts, they walk a razor's edge between being up front and having their words twisted out of context.

That being said, LL is collecting a nice sum of money from a lot of players each month, and many people are over the cusp of paying a small monthly fee to be part of a community/game or whatever SL is, to a payment level where a certain level of service is expected.

I think there is a problem with the LL management philosophy and general management model, and its fair to say a change is needed. I don't know how involved Robin or any other Linden is with setting up the parameters of management style.

Robin asks us to be the change, well let's look at the change we request.

We ask for careful testing of new features with thought to how isolated new features added to SL will interact with other features. That is not a change we "can be." This is a purely internal matter.

We wonder whether the developers who introduce new bells and whistle features to SL are actually meaningful users of these features. Testing for theoretical use is not a true test whether the feature will actually be of use to the SL community. This, too, is not a change we "can be." It is a purely internal matter.

We ask that past bugs and problems be resolved before new features are introduced. Is that a change we can be? Again, no.

We ask that new features not "break" prior features, once again, an internal matter.

What change can we be then. Lets look at tolerance and equal rights to just "be" in SL. Does LL practice that, is LL the change that is advocated to accomplish that ideal....I say no.

What purpose is served by selecting a small group of members for special benefits and treatment while at the same time advocating the position of being the change. The inverse of preferential treatment for some is lesser treatment for others, leading to a preferred group or class. This is not the change I want to "be."

The example set by LL actual management of the community, one that practices preferential treatment and unequal application of the rules, sets an example that I sure do not advocate. I argue consistently for evenhanded treatment, and have taken crap from some who seem to think preferential treatment for a select few is a good thing. I disagree.

I think the question in the original post is more directed at do we need to change the management philosophy and model used by LL rather than Robin individually.

My answer to that is yes, change is needed.

Write the bad things that are done to you in the sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble.

Isn't this thread breaking the naming names rule?

Granted, that rule seems to be enforced sometimes and ignored others, but ...

I personally don't care who's in charge as long as the job is getting done. I don't think the Lindens are personally involved with more than communications...or minor fixes. I think it's more like shooting the messenger if you are blaming a Linden...just a thought...I can be wrong...it's happened before...LOL!

BUT...on the other hand...the thing that ticks me off the most, is the fact that our inventory abilities keep changing. I WISH they would STOP messing with our inventory! It's just like some stranger coming to my house and trying to organize my closet for me...stay out of it please! LOL!

Wellllll, i been to all the beta test grids that have come about since ive been in SL, not sure im the one they want there looking for bugs...first of all i wouldnt be able to tell a beetle from a system bug. One of em had games, and tube rides, and archery, i was having soooo much fun, i forgot why i was there. The last flexi prim one i was so blown away by the fun of making them and seeing what everyone else was making, and Torley was there cheerleading us on, i forgot that time too i was there to do pest controll. Really lets be frank, the test grids are a marketing tool, they really dont want us to find bugs or there would be points and prizes for them!! Rite ?? am i rite ??