Ethical/Unethical

My history in this game has hopefully shown the type of person I am. Today I have been called a scammer and unethical by one home builder. So, I want to state my piece, and hopefully others who feel the same or other way will reply.

I own an island, Risa, strictly residential island. We have no games, vendors, etc. Anyway...I contacted a builder of a home that fit in the specs of what we can use on the island. I told him i was renting houses out on my island, that I wanted to make sure the house was mod/copy/no trans, gave him the island name as well as landmark. With that information he should know i intended to rez more than one copy. He said giving discounts for mulitiple homes. To myunderstanding that meant if I bought more than one of his houses I would receive a discount (i only bought one). So that didn't apply to me. I paid 2000L for the house. I put out 2 (I double counted and there are 2 for rent) for 300 a week. there are 4 other copies out that my staff live in for free (no income).

Anyway...in my experience with other homes i've purchased the builders usually charge a higher price for the homes if they are copy/mod/trans because multiple copies can be put out. I've spoken with one tonite and she affirmed that once you pay for her houses you can put out as many houses as you want. She sells a lot of houses as well.

In my thoughts...if you dont' people rezzing multiple copies, you need to include a notecard in the box stating so, or stating that if you do you will be charged, as well as being clear in speaking with people. Also, to prevent multiple rezzings, make the item non copy with a notecard stating if you screw up yours contact me and I will swap for another copy (as I have seen with some builders).

You had to double count?

MJ

Your piece of what?

~Ulrika~

I had just gotten home less than half an hour before this started...he left me several IMS while offline. Not that it matters, but I'm tired and my memory might not be accurate, so to make sure I spoke the truth I double counted the houses.

Piece of the situation...

I am an officer on Risa and deal with lots of houses and builders and I agree with Jenny that if its copyable and non trans then you can make as many of them as you wish and not have to pay the builder for each copy. If you want paid for each copy then make it No COPY

lol, i seriously lmao reading this. Probably cause I've been there done that, but seriously I've never been so tired that I had to double count two houses. That's funny.

I think some info was left out of your rant, like was the house he/she gave you copyable/no trans? Also, if it wasn't copyable then how did you end up with two? Did you buy two? I just don't get it.

MJ

The house is copy/mod/no trans. All of his houses are that way (per what he said in our initial conversation.

Most people probably have not...as it takes lots of meds to be that way

Making multiple copies of a copy-enabled object seems ok to me.

I'm struggling to understand the architect's concern. Why is it copy-enabled? Something to do in the case of a mod error perhaps?

I issue no-transfer textures for mod errors myself, because nobody wants to re-rez a house and start over 'from scratch'. Not too many people de-link them - I've not had one case of that in 3 months.

Anyway, at the risk of making a shameless plug - you can rez as many as you want of mine.

I was Scorpio's very first customer and he is not dishonest in any way. His houses are copy but it's so you will have one good copy in case you mess it up somehow. You can also rezz 1 additional one for use. He will gladly and willingly come out and set up any home for free and usually will add things as you need them and come out and fix any screw up you might make. I have never had to pay for much of anything else and he will work with you always.

If you buy additional homes, yes you get them at a discount price. Not sure that you understood his answer just like he didn't understand the question.

He's not dishonest in any way and his rules are his rules, maybe he's never needed to make them clearer or even though about it. But now I hope he will in the future. I think you can also pay him a one time payment and rezz as many as you want to also. Did he tell you that? I'm sure he must have.

Maybe it was miscommunication but Scorpio is a very good friend of mine and one of the best builders in the game. I don't think he would intentionally try to cheat you at all, he is a very honest person and works with you and for you any way he can.

I have read what the poster has to say and feel that I don't feel i need to hide in the woods over this. There are some facts missing in the post that need to be brought out in the open and put the disagreement that I had with her in context. I am now forced to put myself here as it has come to my attention that the actual conversation that occured between myself and the poster has been sent in a notecard to others. That is a direct violation of TOS. At this point, I am more concerned about the actual facts and what was said.

When I was I'M'd she told me that she was looking for houses for a rental island. I informed her of what I had and that if she was looking for a multiple houses that I would give her a discount. She said only one of my homes would fit in the prim count she was looking for. At that point I said that if she wanted to use more than one copy I would be pleased to offer a discount. I also offered to work out a 'one off' charge if she preferred then I would be happy if she put out as many as she wished. She never replied to that offer and no more was said untill i noticed later that evening she bought a single home.

The point is, I made this offer and condition before Jenny bought the house. She then had a clear choice in the full knowledge of my wishes. She had a choice to go elsewhere and not to buy if she didnt want to deal with me under those circumstances.

I also sell to other renters and thse conditions have been accepted. I really dont mind if the renter has a couple of homes for themselves out. The fact that 5 ot 6 had been put out went directly against what I told her when she asked me about the homes. Even if at that point only one or two were up for rent.

I feel that if a renter wants to gain income from a product that I have made then its only fair and equitable that I receive the payment for those homes also. This is not the same as applying a copy permission to a property for a 'normal' sale to a homeowner. That is for the odd occasion that the person need to rezz a new part because they messed it up while modifying or perhaps retexturing it.

I have read the forum posts about the permissions and have seen the various arguments in the forums about why copy/mod is the option most prefer. I went with the wishes of the majority.

If renters want to have income from all the homes that they rent, then is it not somewhat reasonable to expect payment for a house that helps them achieve that!

Over the past 6 months of selling homes to many people, this is the first time I have had to take issue with anyone and those that know my service levels will hopefully agree that they often receive more for their money than just the house.

Please debate this by all means, but please bear in mind, that I told Jenny of the terms I was prepared to see my houses used.

My mistake was in thinking that these conditions would be accepted when the purchase was made.

At that point I said that if she wanted to use more than one copy I would be pleased to offer a discount. I also offered to work out a 'one off' charge if she preferred then I would be happy if she put out as many as she wished

This was not in the conversation.....at least not in those words. Cause had they been, I would have told him to jump in a lake. That's just stupid and bad business sense to demand people to pay for each house they rezz or pay extra for a house like that, and even worse to agree to that. If you want more money, charge more for the house. I knwo for a fact you spoke with someone else and told them no problem creating a few of your houses, and they didn't pay you extra at all....as a matter of fact you HELPED them to rezz and set them up with no extra payment other than the house they purchased initially....

Well from what I understand in SL and in the real world doesnt it mean that if you buy a house in paying in full that it is your house and not the creators anymore and are free to do with it as you wish or am I wrong?

And if this is not what the creator wanted then he should have made it no mod/no copy

[QUOTE=This was not in the conversation.....at least not in those words. Cause had they been, I would have told him to jump in a lake. That's just stupid and bad business sense to demand people to pay for each house they rezz or pay extra for a house like that, and even worse to agree to that. If you want more money, charge more for the house. I knwo for a fact you spoke with someone else and told them no problem creating a few of your houses, and they didn't pay you extra at all....as a matter of fact you HELPED them to rezz and set them up with no extra payment other than the house they purchased initially....[/QUOTE

I have already said that I have no problem someone rezzing a couple of homes and didnt argue with you when you said you might do two. It seems to me that you misunderstood what i offered but never questioned me further. I would have explained and then you could have told me to 'jump in the 'lake' I feel you heard what you wanted to hear.

Maybe the thing to do would be to sell a 'pack of three', all no copy.

That way, if a single home owner has mod errors, there are 3 chances to get it right.

It would also limit the # of homes that could be rezzed to 3.



I operate the same way Juro does, apparently, and for the same reasons - just trying to make a positive suggestion for all concerned.

'Tis rare we get to see both sides. To my Solomonic eye, it seems as if the purchaser misunderstood the verbal agreement and rather than try to come to reasonable terms with the other party decided to air it publically.

Unfortunately for both parties, the wretched permission system and inventory failures have put them in a situation where the seller - like most prefab makers - has to sell his product copyable and that caused the buyer to misunderstand the terms of the deal as the seller was saying one thing and the object was "saying" the opposite.

As this was put to the court of public opinion I render judgement thusly: work this out between yourselves and cease sniping at each other.

And what Juro said.

I was kidding about that Solomon bit

I have no idea wtf is going on in this thread.

Trump vs. Helmsley...

Copy homes are meant for teh purchaser esp ones like me that delete pieces or just muss it up, I can rez a section at a sandbox and experiment using dif textures
It is fair that a builder receive some credit and Lindens if some LANDLORD wants to rent out his creation

If alot of people Rz MANY of teh homes and rent them out builders will start selling houses that are NO COPY

no one wants that
reach an agreement, Scorp is beyond fair
Hell he worked on my home until 3 am his time and for only 500
i had to force a tip on him

just my 2 cents

Sara
COme see teh awesome work he fif on my home and my neighbors
Im me if u like

I can understand that someone might be upset that she can't rez multiples of one of Scorpio's fabulous homes.. but it DOES make good business sense to me...that if someone wants to rent out, then the builder should get *something* more for his efforts.

I have bought a couple of Scropio's homes, and find his service unmatched by any home vendor with whom I have dealt.

Look, i'm as big a consumer advocate as they come, which is why i support Scorp in this situation. He has supplied copy's and mods as permissions to AID the consumer, so that they might customize their home, and, as many will do, have a backup if they send the whole thing south. I think that's more than fair, and if it was stated clearly that those permissions are not intended for multiple rezzings, then that should be respected.

Rezzing multiple houses is taking advantage of what the builder intended.

Take any computer software, such as Photoshop. If you buy photoshop, you can install it on your computer, and if your computer crashes, you can reinstall it. You aren't however, allowed to install the same copy on every machine in your office complex. What you are suggesting by saying make it "no copy" is like saying, once you install Photoshop on your computer the CD should self destruct. Sure there are people who copy it onto multiple machines, but it's illegal and unethical.

I would say seller's beware...include a notecard with explicit rules governing the copy permissions so that you don't find yourself the victim of this same situation!

the point of this thread is that she TOLD him she was a renter and asked if they were copyable so she bought it then he comes to the island and saw copyes put out and now wants her to pay for each copy she rezzed and also she paid for the house and is now her property do with as she pleases. He never said that if she rezzes more than one house to rent he would charge her for them

Scorpio recently built me a beautiful house. Anytime I need something fixed, or added on, he comes over to help. My neighbor Sara also has had his work done, among several others. He has always been very clear on all of his agreements we had. I wouldn't hesitate to use him again, cause he has always been very fair and reasonable.

no.. its rezz or not to rezz.. that is the question . whether tis nobler to....

The point is not his service its him trying to dictate what is done with his homes after they r purchased and nolonger his trying to get more money from some one that already payed.
If he doesnt want ppl to make muliple copys of the house then he should make it no copy and use his services when needed