Second Life Forums Archive - Best security/privacy tools in SL?

eltee Statosky

Luskie

Join date: 23 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,258

08-03-2006 14:37

These terms are essentially absolute as well, there really is no ambiguity in their use... It is immediately testable by anyone, what type of security is in use...

lets use two avatars you have never heard of before, john doe and jane doe (and yes the fact you have never heard of either of them is important here)

you have an 'active' security system if the following happens:

the security reacts to john doe when he is in your area. He then goes home and talks to his friend jane doe, who comes to look, and the security also reacts to jane doe.

you have a 'reactive' security system if the following happens:

the security reacts to john doe when he is in your area. He then goes home and talks to his friend jane doe, who comes to look, and the security does not react to jane doe.

i.e. in 'active' security, *all* avatars you have never heard of will be affected, in 'reactive' security, only a single person will be affected, (presumably based on their actions that got them entered into it by someone belonging to the area in question)... thats why the differences in the acceptable responses... there are things that are not acceptable to do to every single person who will be on your land, blindly, that are however ok, when trying to remove a trouble maker (such as llTeleportAgentHome()) which should *NEVER* ever be in an 'active' model security script..

(not that yo couldn't also have and use a reactive script, manually, to help deal with people who are messing with you specifically)

_____________________

wash, rinse, repeat

OuiOui Noland

Registered User

Join date: 6 May 2006

Posts: 17

08-03-2006 17:14

From: eltee Statosky

'I want to be able to stop someone from harassing me/my guests'

this is an *ENTIRELY* different security model. In a system like this, chances are you are not going to be bumping random people, you are going to be trying to enjoy yourself, and someone is specifically going to attempt to mess with you or your area for their own gratification...

What is and is not acceptable in this model is *VERY* different. Since you won't be 'triggering' your security on every person, only on someone very specifically named, and for a very specific reason, it is more acceptable to have a faster timer. If you can scan for NAMES specifically you can get an instant hit back if that name is in the area, and you can use that hit to do what you need to do to protect your area.

Whoa ! Thanks for the responces but I certainly didnt mean to stir up some outstanding opinions on security matters - but I did learn alot. But the one thing above summarizes this well for me.
However I feel it has one problem - the creation of ALTS. Now every jackball has 10 jackball brothers in the form of ALTS. If we set up security to hold him out, he considers it part of the game, creates an ALT and starts his game again.
So we are left with the idea of just keeping EVERYBODY out. But I agree COMPLETELY with those on this list. I do not want a script to kick people immediately. The one I saw gave like a 20 second warning. The other thing is I would not want to have land people could not fly over, would just want to have some distance between them and me. Finally I am not interested in a script that has a wide birth, basically one that just frames the house to stop jackballs from trying to get in. If they want to "creep around" the land fine, just dont need them in the house as they are good at bypassing locks apparently.

Is this a canned security script and is it one of the ones I see listed above? One SL store sells these?

Thanks

Oui

Avil Creeggan

Crazy Stalker.

Join date: 16 Jul 2006

Posts: 39

08-03-2006 18:25

From: someone

If you do feel you need additional security, please make sure that you warn people first (10 seconds would be nice) to give them time to leave, and then if they don't you can remove them.

Be careful though, that your script doesn't

cause them to crash (which often happens with the teleport home command) or
throw them a long distance across the sim.
It should also not create a no-fly zone, where someone just flying by gets tossed out.

Any of these situations can be considered abuse and will be cause for discipline with repeated incidents.

-Jack Linden, emphasis and formatting mine.

Jonas Pierterson

Dark Harlequin

Join date: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 3,660

08-03-2006 19:29

From: Avil Creeggan

-Jack Linden, emphasis and formatting mine.

You could get by my skybox at speeds of 3 m/s. I tested it with an alt. There was no no fly zone, only a no loitering zone.

_____________________

Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy

Jesse Malthus

OMG HAX!

Join date: 21 Apr 2006

Posts: 649

08-03-2006 19:32

From: Jonas Pierterson

You could get by my skybox at speeds of 3 m/s. I tested it with an alt. There was no no fly zone, only a no loitering zone.

What if I go AFK somewhere near your skybox? That's still creating an air hazzard

_____________________

Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus.
Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower.
Japanese Jesus, where are you?
Pragmatic!

Jonas Pierterson

Dark Harlequin

Join date: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 3,660

08-03-2006 20:10

From: Jesse Malthus

What if I go AFK somewhere near your skybox? That's still creating an air hazzard

Unless you were on my land, it wouldn't eject you as eject only works on my property. No loitering!

_____________________

Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy

Jon Rolland

Registered User

Join date: 3 Oct 2005

Posts: 705

08-03-2006 21:45

My security script immediately bans however ban has a built in 10 second delay and even better than Lee's suggestion(granted that LSL call didn't exist when Lee posted) it returns to owner anything they were sitting on. To avoid filling the ban list it bans for 2 hrs and remembers who is banned. It checks against a list of authorized(white list avatars) and unauthorized(black list(permabanned)) then assumes everyone else is grey list and temp bans them.

And Jesse if your AFK your not "passing".

Belial Ixtab

Registered User

Join date: 13 Aug 2004

Posts: 15

08-04-2006 14:02

From: Avil Creeggan

-Jack Linden, emphasis and formatting mine.

You should have formatted the whole thing Avil

If someone's script causes my client to crash, they get AR'd. If they do more than push me off the parcel, they get AR'd. And of course, if I get no warning or an insufficient one, they get AR'd. The Lindens have been very good about getting these ARs resolved too, based on subsequent observations.

Jon Rolland

Registered User

Join date: 3 Oct 2005

Posts: 705

08-04-2006 14:14

From: Belial Ixtab

You should have formatted the whole thing Avil

If someone's script causes my client to crash, they get AR'd. If they do more than push me off the parcel, they get AR'd. And of course, if I get no warning or an insufficient one, they get AR'd. The Lindens have been very good about getting these ARs resolved too, based on subsequent observations.

Which is a pity given your clear lack of respect for other people. Don't see where you get the balls to demand respect from others.

Cindy Claveau

Gignowanasanafonicon

Join date: 16 May 2005

Posts: 2,008

08-04-2006 14:19

From: Jon Rolland

My security script immediately bans however ban has a built in 10 second delay and even better than Lee's suggestion(granted that LSL call didn't exist when Lee posted) it returns to owner anything they were sitting on. To avoid filling the ban list it bans for 2 hrs and remembers who is banned. It checks against a list of authorized(white list avatars) and unauthorized(black list(permabanned)) then assumes everyone else is grey list and temp bans them.

Interesting, Jon. I asked in the Scripting forum about doing that after Black June (6/6) and was told that a script could not identify prims owned by others and return them. Do you mean you have auto-return set on in your land tools?

_____________________

Jon Rolland

Registered User

Join date: 3 Oct 2005

Posts: 705

08-04-2006 15:33

From: Cindy Claveau

Interesting, Jon. I asked in the Scripting forum about doing that after Black June (6/6) and was told that a script could not identify prims owned by others and return them. Do you mean you have auto-return set on in your land tools?

The forum is correct. A script can't do that. My script uses llAddToLandBanList(key agent, float hours). When an avatar is banned from land if they are alrdy on the parcel they are given a 10 second warning then ejected. If that avatar was sitting on something(might require their ownership) when ejected that object will be returned to their inventory. Both the 10 second warning and the return of the object are integrated into the ban function itself not seperately scripted. I learned about the object return while designing the script I tested it on Berri. It ejected her and returned to her the hammock she was laying on, even though the hammock was set to group and auto return wouldn't touch it.

Best security/privacy tools in SL?
eltee Statosky Luskie Join date: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,258	08-03-2006 14:37 These terms are essentially absolute as well, there really is no ambiguity in their use... It is immediately testable by anyone, what type of security is in use... lets use two avatars you have never heard of before, john doe and jane doe (and yes the fact you have never heard of either of them is important here) you have an 'active' security system if the following happens: the security reacts to john doe when he is in your area. He then goes home and talks to his friend jane doe, who comes to look, and the security also reacts to jane doe. you have a 'reactive' security system if the following happens: the security reacts to john doe when he is in your area. He then goes home and talks to his friend jane doe, who comes to look, and the security does not react to jane doe. i.e. in 'active' security, all avatars you have never heard of will be affected, in 'reactive' security, only a single person will be affected, (presumably based on their actions that got them entered into it by someone belonging to the area in question)... thats why the differences in the acceptable responses... there are things that are not acceptable to do to every single person who will be on your land, blindly, that are however ok, when trying to remove a trouble maker (such as llTeleportAgentHome()) which should NEVER ever be in an 'active' model security script.. (not that yo couldn't also have and use a reactive script, manually, to help deal with people who are messing with you specifically) _____________________ wash, rinse, repeat
OuiOui Noland Registered User Join date: 6 May 2006 Posts: 17	08-03-2006 17:14 From: eltee Statosky 'I want to be able to stop someone from harassing me/my guests' this is an ENTIRELY different security model. In a system like this, chances are you are not going to be bumping random people, you are going to be trying to enjoy yourself, and someone is specifically going to attempt to mess with you or your area for their own gratification... What is and is not acceptable in this model is VERY different. Since you won't be 'triggering' your security on every person, only on someone very specifically named, and for a very specific reason, it is more acceptable to have a faster timer. If you can scan for NAMES specifically you can get an instant hit back if that name is in the area, and you can use that hit to do what you need to do to protect your area. Whoa ! Thanks for the responces but I certainly didnt mean to stir up some outstanding opinions on security matters - but I did learn alot. But the one thing above summarizes this well for me. However I feel it has one problem - the creation of ALTS. Now every jackball has 10 jackball brothers in the form of ALTS. If we set up security to hold him out, he considers it part of the game, creates an ALT and starts his game again. So we are left with the idea of just keeping EVERYBODY out. But I agree COMPLETELY with those on this list. I do not want a script to kick people immediately. The one I saw gave like a 20 second warning. The other thing is I would not want to have land people could not fly over, would just want to have some distance between them and me. Finally I am not interested in a script that has a wide birth, basically one that just frames the house to stop jackballs from trying to get in. If they want to "creep around" the land fine, just dont need them in the house as they are good at bypassing locks apparently. Is this a canned security script and is it one of the ones I see listed above? One SL store sells these? Thanks Oui
Avil Creeggan Crazy Stalker. Join date: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 39	08-03-2006 18:25 From: someone If you do feel you need additional security, please make sure that you warn people first (10 seconds would be nice) to give them time to leave, and then if they don't you can remove them. Be careful though, that your script doesn't cause them to crash (which often happens with the teleport home command) or throw them a long distance across the sim. It should also not create a no-fly zone, where someone just flying by gets tossed out. Any of these situations can be considered abuse and will be cause for discipline with repeated incidents. -Jack Linden, emphasis and formatting mine.
Jonas Pierterson Dark Harlequin Join date: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 3,660	08-03-2006 19:29 From: Avil Creeggan -Jack Linden, emphasis and formatting mine. You could get by my skybox at speeds of 3 m/s. I tested it with an alt. There was no no fly zone, only a no loitering zone. _____________________ Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Jesse Malthus OMG HAX! Join date: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 649	08-03-2006 19:32 From: Jonas Pierterson You could get by my skybox at speeds of 3 m/s. I tested it with an alt. There was no no fly zone, only a no loitering zone. What if I go AFK somewhere near your skybox? That's still creating an air hazzard _____________________ Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus. Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower. Japanese Jesus, where are you? Pragmatic!
Jonas Pierterson Dark Harlequin Join date: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 3,660	08-03-2006 20:10 From: Jesse Malthus What if I go AFK somewhere near your skybox? That's still creating an air hazzard Unless you were on my land, it wouldn't eject you as eject only works on my property. No loitering! _____________________ Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Jon Rolland Registered User Join date: 3 Oct 2005 Posts: 705	08-03-2006 21:45 My security script immediately bans however ban has a built in 10 second delay and even better than Lee's suggestion(granted that LSL call didn't exist when Lee posted) it returns to owner anything they were sitting on. To avoid filling the ban list it bans for 2 hrs and remembers who is banned. It checks against a list of authorized(white list avatars) and unauthorized(black list(permabanned)) then assumes everyone else is grey list and temp bans them. And Jesse if your AFK your not "passing".
Belial Ixtab Registered User Join date: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 15	08-04-2006 14:02 From: Avil Creeggan -Jack Linden, emphasis and formatting mine. You should have formatted the whole thing Avil If someone's script causes my client to crash, they get AR'd. If they do more than push me off the parcel, they get AR'd. And of course, if I get no warning or an insufficient one, they get AR'd. The Lindens have been very good about getting these ARs resolved too, based on subsequent observations.
Jon Rolland Registered User Join date: 3 Oct 2005 Posts: 705	08-04-2006 14:14 From: Belial Ixtab You should have formatted the whole thing Avil If someone's script causes my client to crash, they get AR'd. If they do more than push me off the parcel, they get AR'd. And of course, if I get no warning or an insufficient one, they get AR'd. The Lindens have been very good about getting these ARs resolved too, based on subsequent observations. Which is a pity given your clear lack of respect for other people. Don't see where you get the balls to demand respect from others.
Cindy Claveau Gignowanasanafonicon Join date: 16 May 2005 Posts: 2,008	08-04-2006 14:19 From: Jon Rolland My security script immediately bans however ban has a built in 10 second delay and even better than Lee's suggestion(granted that LSL call didn't exist when Lee posted) it returns to owner anything they were sitting on. To avoid filling the ban list it bans for 2 hrs and remembers who is banned. It checks against a list of authorized(white list avatars) and unauthorized(black list(permabanned)) then assumes everyone else is grey list and temp bans them. Interesting, Jon. I asked in the Scripting forum about doing that after Black June (6/6) and was told that a script could not identify prims owned by others and return them. Do you mean you have auto-return set on in your land tools? _____________________
Jon Rolland Registered User Join date: 3 Oct 2005 Posts: 705	08-04-2006 15:33 From: Cindy Claveau Interesting, Jon. I asked in the Scripting forum about doing that after Black June (6/6) and was told that a script could not identify prims owned by others and return them. Do you mean you have auto-return set on in your land tools? The forum is correct. A script can't do that. My script uses llAddToLandBanList(key agent, float hours). When an avatar is banned from land if they are alrdy on the parcel they are given a 10 second warning then ejected. If that avatar was sitting on something(might require their ownership) when ejected that object will be returned to their inventory. Both the 10 second warning and the return of the object are integrated into the ban function itself not seperately scripted. I learned about the object return while designing the script I tested it on Berri. It ejected her and returned to her the hammock she was laying on, even though the hammock was set to group and auto return wouldn't touch it.

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Best security/privacy tools in SL?