Is this common practices?

I've only been here for about 9 days so I honestly don't know how many things are done here in this game. Therefore, I'll state below whats happened and you guys who've been here longer can respond on your thoughts.

I purchased a small piece of land surrounded by water, a small Island. I paid X amount of $L to the agent representing the company Anshe Chung. I was also instructed to open a Paypal account sending US$ in accordance with the Tier that corresponded with the land. Once all this was done, the deal was closed and the land was now mine.

The next day when I came in, I had a message from the agent saying the land had been deeded and was ready for me. I was also thanked for a gift I had sent the agent for her help.

I went with my girlfriend and we proceeded to set down the house. The house has sort of an L shape so we had to set it down at an angle in order for it to fit just right. The house seem much larger then we had anticipated but it fit in really good at that angle.
But, at one corner of the house the ground didn't seem to touch the house. We rotated the house into that corner but then the entire house looked lopsided. So a small mound was made at that corner so the ground would come up slightly into the house at that precise corner. Now it began to look really good the way it was setup. And we still had space all around the house as well as a lot of space in certain spots.

I then received a message from the agent who seems had been watching or spying. It was scolding us telling us we had violated the rules since we changed the land at the corner of the house. The message in caps kept mentioning the rules. It virtually said, "The rules this and the rules that".
I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I paid for the land which was now mine and now I had to do what the selling company says to do with the land? This is ridiculous.
I told the agent as much and again she mentioned the rules.

I asked her to show us another land similar to the one I had purchased but larger and she did. I was then prepared to buy the much larger piece of land but now had to pay the difference in $L which I knew I had to do and that was fine with me.
I also had to go back to Paypal and choose the Tier which was higher due to the larger land. I had no problem with this either but the agent said I would lose the first Tier money I had sent.
This I didn't like too much. I told the agent I should be able to pay the difference since I hadn't used the land and was now upgrading my land and account. Still they said no.

I thought about it. I thought about how things wouldn't change even with the larger land this company would always be looking over my shoulder even though the land would be mine. I really wanted the land as it was my desire to set the beautiful house I had chosen on the island fixing the entire place up real nice.
But I was not about to put up with these so called "rules" they seem to have. So I asked for a complete refund. I was told to speak with Anshe Chung herself which I did. I was told I would get the $L refunded but would lose the Tier US$ I had sent. I had no choice, it was either this or live with this company constantly watching us.

Like I said, I'm new to this game Second Life but not new to Life itself. This way of doing business for this company even though its in a game shouldn't be like this. If I was renting, then I know I can't do anything with the land or with whatever it is I'm renting unless of course I get permission from the owner. But when a person buys something, that person is entitled to do whatever they see fit long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else.

I have since mailed support asking them to look at this situation and this company and its practices on the community. I'm currently waiting on an answer being I just sent it out.

You guys have been here longer then I have, what do you think of this situation? Am I wrong for thinking the way I am or is this the norm in this game and deem acceptable behavior from a company like Anshe Chung?

Thanks for any responses.

The thing that the party in question never mentions is that you don't really "OWN" the land when you live in that continent, per se. Instead, you "RENT" it by paying up-front, and then paying a monthly fee. In my mind, her business practices are deceptive at best in that area.

As to her customer service, I have not dealt with her in quite some time, but your experiences sound just about correct for the party in question. Please don't take her as indicative of the entire community - she's not!

The rules exist to protect the Dreamland community from such horrors as huge spinning cubes or forty foot walls of land appearing on their borders overnight. The idea is to maintain a pleasant environment for all of the rentors. You just wound up in a neighborhood with a residential council looking over your shoulder without realizing it.

There are plenty of options though, LL maintains an estate we call "the mainland" that has no rules whatsoever about what you do with your land except that they automatically limit your terraforming to four meters. And there are other estates that enforce varying levels of control.

As for the refund, I've never rented from ACS, but I do know that their notecards and website scream that tier is always nonrefundable without exception so I'd say that common for them. It is not common for all landlords though.

I strongly recommend that new residents rent land from someone their first month or two in order to have time to browse around and become familiar with the world and its population before spending oogoodles of money on land.

I'm surprised that your house doesn't come with a base to sit on. The base allows your home to sit on uneven land. You could always make one yourself. A prim just for the corner may have been all you would have needed. You could apply a stone, soil or even grass texture to the base. Having a base for your house to sit on may have allowed you to stay on the orignal lot.
Welcome to SL. I hope your experiences go better for you in the future.

Next time, read the rules before renting a property, like you would in real life. Those rules are there to maintain the lovely environment that attracted you. If you can't abide by them, don't rent there.

Musuko.

Welcome to SL Ricardo! Did you read the rules before renting the land? I have rented land from Dreamland before and was happy with it until my neighbor decided to build something ugly that was within the rules. I left with a refund of half the price I had paid.

If you shop around, there are other land for rent with much more flexible and cheaper "rules".

Unfortunately many of the big land dealers forget that a happy customer is a repeat customer who tells their friends what a great time they had - and just concentrate on the fact that they need money. Such unreasonable deals - including not paying the difference between tiers instead of having to pay the full price - are actually nothing but a con, and in the real world would incur heavy penalties and lawsuits, but in SL you tend to be stuck out of luck with no recourse. As a new player, unfortunately lack of knowledge (which isn't your fault at all) means that you aren't aware of the full picture before signing up.

I would personally never enter into such an agreement with anyone, let alone the individual in question because of their history and business tactics, which are well known to many forum regulars (and not in a generally positive light). Under their scam... sorry scheme, you don't really "own" anything, and you have no recourse if they decide to kick you out or the project folds or runs into, erm, billing difficulties.

It's not too late to cut your losses and run, chalking it down to an unfortunate mistake on your part by falling foul of unfair business practices that aren't made clear.

Assuming you haven't "bought" land for yourself, I would recommend looking at First Land. This is specifically discounted parcels, for new players. You can only own 'first land' once. Although you can buy one for L$512, their resale value is typically around L$4000 at current market prices.

At the bottom of your screen is a button marked "Find". Hit that, then open the "Land" tab. This lists all parcels of land that are for sale in-world. There are several filters - Price and Area, so if you are looking for a parcel of land that is greater than 1000 sq m and costs less than L$7000, you can select only those. Results can be sorted by name, price, area, or price per square metre.

The default option is for "All" land, however there are filters for plots for auction, plots for sale, and First Land.

Land prices fluctuate greatly, depending on its location, its type, and is also affected by the land around it. When you teleport to a parcel of land to check it out, don't forget to have a good look around and see what the neighbours are like, just as you would in a real life property purchase, before handing over any cash. When buying through the "Land" system in game, you are paying directly, rather than through a "third party" with no real protection.

Then, the land is yours to do what you like with, and you are not at the whims of someone with dollar signs in their eyes. It also has an easy resale value should you want to move elsewhere or to a larger tier - and, of course, all your monthly fees are going back into the game and being reinvested instead of lining someone's pockets. The only drawback is that you have to upgrade to a Premium account - but that is something I would recommend anyone to do, because apart from land ownership, you also get a lot more money to use per week.

Good luck. Don't let this bad experience put you off all that SL has to offer. There are plenty of good people about who can advise you and help you on your merry way in creating your second life.

Lewis

That is a wise statement but the problem is, this is not presented as "renting". Its presented as "owning" which is not the case at all.

Yah. That is rather deceptive. I just took a look at anshechung.com and while there is small print stating the difference between Anshe "ownership" and real ownership, it's going to be confusing for people who aren't used to how land in SL works.

Bottom line, the only land you ever actually own is land you buy from LL. Only LL can take that away from you or tell you what to do with it, and you really have to make an immense nuisance of yourself for them to do that.

And besides the fact that sometimes you have to put up with some crumby builds and, well, some other land baron's idea of good business, well, I'd still rather just own my little lot by myself. My RL money alloted for SL goes only to the Lindens, so.. maybe they can buy some void servers?

Hiyas Ricardo..... sorry to hear about your bad experience. There are other land renters who aren't quite so cavalier in their methods and, as Lewis points out, going premium and buying land on the mainland gives you more independence. FWIW, you now qualify for a free 'I've been screwed by Banshee Dung' poster.

This post kinda makes me nervous, because now I am wondering if I am renting a piece of land that I thought I actually BOUGHT yesterday...

Is there a way to tell? My property is on the mainland (Hogback). I didnt buy it from LL....it was being sold (I thought) by another player.

Is it even possible to rent land on the mainland? I want to make sure I bought it and didnt just rent it.

If it's on the mainland, which is owned by LL, it's yours. You're safe in Hoggback.

If there are indeed rules against terraforming wouldn't it make better sense to enforce this by baking the terrain and setting the limits down to zero in the Region/Estate settings?

Anything is acceptable from Anshe Chung. She pays far too much money to Linden labs to risk upsetting her over things such as holding her to the same standards as regular people.

Having said that, what you describe is common from island rentals. Some landlords make sure you understand the way things work, some throw it in fine print and hope you notice too late to do anything about it.

(And couldn't Anshe just disable terraforming altogether if she hates it so much?)

It is possible to rent land on the mainland. If you went through the land menu, and it gave you a warning page saying "This will/will not change your tier, this will cost you L$XXXX, are you sure", and you said yes and it said "you have paid Firstname Lastname L$XXXX for a parcel of land" then you own it. You can also click on the region name at the top of the screen and you should get a popup box which shows you as the owner.

If you are paying tier to LL, then you own the land....

Just thought of the quickest way: go to

https://secondlife.com/account/land.php

and if it's listed there, you own it.

I do recall seing that message, but I will check later tonight to make sure. I assume if I go to the "about land" screen it will show me as the owner if I own the land, right?

Amazing that this thread is still around. But, hey, it is Anshe on the receiving end.

Let me clear up some facts:

1. Before buying land, Ricardo received detailed information about terms and zoning rules, received detailed explanations and was asked several times to carefully review the information he was given

2. After the purchase he began to use the land. One or two days later he began to violate zoning rules and when politely contacted by staff he outright refused to respect any of the zoning rules that he had agreed to before the purchase. Instead he began to argue that because he "owns" the land, all the zoning rules given to him before the purchase would be void.

3. It is not true that when people in Dreamland move to a higher tier they are forced to double pay. We always make sure a refund is issued when somebody moves up a tier. This is generally settled in L$.

4. The mainland has rules and if you don't follow them you get banned and loose your land. Have you ever tried to host a swinger party in a PG sim? Or how about opening a Tringo club in Boardman?

5. Anshe took back Ricardo's land giving him a full refund of his purchase price, even though she was not at fault. Tier of course is non-refundable, neither on the mainland nor in Dreamland.

6. In real world terms nobody owns land in Second Life. At best it would go as a "lease", considering the high monthly fees. This applies to the mainland as much as it applies to Dreamland or similar places.

7. Zoning rules exist in Dreamland because the vast majority of the more than 1000 people who bought land there favor them as a feature. Not having zoning rules would be less work for us.

So what is the difference between "renting" and "owning" in a Dreamland sim? Apart from the fact that one has to be paid in L$ and the other in US$.

Ok...I went there and here is what I saw:

- http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3497/land8zz.jpg

Now I assume that "Hogback (PG) Beutiful Green Coastal Sim -ANSHECHUNG.COM" is just the name of the parcel, and does not mean that is the real owner. but I wanted to make sure.

Thank you for the link.

Yes, that's right. You can change the name through the "About Land..." menu, which you get by clicking on the name in the window top bar or right-clicking on the ground and selecting it. Anshe does sell mainland straight out as well as "sell" Dreamland.

”I was told to speak with Anshe Chung herself which I did.”


Wow be happy that you got an audience... I have tryed to get one for months.. when two of her angels in my opinion was not the most polite to me..

No I havent got any answer so far.. not by IM or mail or meeting.. and my begging for one... at her home page was taken away..

/Tina

Actually, the idea of zoning rules does appeal to me. I just dont like the idea of another player having direct rights to my land. I want to own it even if I am bound by community rules.

I could live with a communal system like a covenant agreement though.