Is there a way back?

I think the potential for harm is less with LL employees, because they simply have less of a vested interest in the individuals who post here. If moderation is carried out by posters, then I think the system *has* to be set up so that the performance of resmods is scrutinised. How that is done is not for me to suggest.

I've always been launched into weird situations in my life, and my Second Life. That's alright. Before, I used to get disturbed... now I've just come to accept, and even enjoy it. Maybe I'm like Mr. Bean that way--I don't understand all the technicalities involved, but what I do know, I want to share, and write about my experiences.

Waking up... openeyed... ^_^



Aye it's okay it's all connected.

O, I'm not a forum mod per se. I'm on Community Team but what do I mainly do right now on the SL Forums? Help with potpourri (such an eclectic mix) on SL Answers, help out where I can, and identify bundles of issues to bring to the right attention of other Lindens. Most is pretty much what I was doing as a Resi. Scattershot, lateral, "things on the side".

But, I haven't locked a thread yet. Leaving that open for the future, but currently, I'm very much learning.



Yes, they can make horrid rackets! But leave the rocks in there long enough so they get smoothed.



w00t--for me, it was a natural progression from the start. How much I love this world, being on the SL Forums too! I started posting a few days on in.





I can certainly see where you're coming from, Selador and Margaret... but, as I state things, it's not all-inclusive. And this is exactly why it's right--there's counterpoints to every point. For example, who sets up the framework+system? Individuals, who may work as a team. (This isn't run by robots!) But who "moderates the moderators"? Who keeps things in check? Linden Lab does.

I hear quotes about power and corruption like a New Order record, but theories aside, this baby needs room to breathe. And if a baby is born premature--as some have feel has been done with the ResMod program--then the child may have to be cared for even more. Maybe the ResMod program is like an alien baby to some--all bizarre-looking and causing understandable fear and concern--but can we look into the future, to what this'll grow into? There exists a lot of promises for hope that we simply don't know yet as we haven't been through it. Is it really too much of a risk to give it a chance? I don't think so. I believe it's worth a go!

Each of us has really shaped a role in evolving and growing these SL Forums. I've seeked advice or info from many of you on differing occasions. I see such a plethora, a diversity of opinions--and again, I reiterate, if I didn't, I'd be concerned about SL's variety.

Time to expand and grow, and of course, taking into account all of the constructive advice offered here, keep going forward.

Time to go BACK.

Then, hire Lindens to moderate these forums.

coco

This would be my ideal choice.

Of course I understand there are budgetary concerns and we should be sensitive to that. We should work WITH the Lindens to find an effective alternative to the ResMods.

My only concern is that it be done before the ResMod program becomes a difficult status quo to change.

What effective alternative?

All I can think of is a list of rules that actually makes sense, and that are enforced consistently - which they never have been.

coco

Well the problem is that the Lindens have yet to give us a description of the problem that the ResMod program was intended to solve. If we knew the problem we could think of alternatives.

Personally I thought Jeska was doing a GREAT job. It never really bothered me if an off-topic thread sat in general over the weekend. If anything, I would advocate a rewrite of the TOS to make the rules more clear and to better empower Jeska. Having policy criticism theads cornfielded in record time doesn't seem like a step forward to me.

My number one question is still....



How ethical is it for a for profit company to utilize their own consumers as unpaid employees? This includes forum mods, greeters, helpers, etc. I thought employment law covered things like this.


When is the last time someone volunteered at ComEd and read meters for free?

I can see what you're saying here. It could be interpreted as making the ResMods look like dupes. It's not a huge concern to me since it's a volunteer program. Uh, ok ... I guess it's not REALLY a volunteer program, but it *IS* an Opt-Out program, so it's not like Linden Lab is oppressing anybody.

But your point is well taken and certainly should be considered along with the numerous other grave concerns folks have over this program.

People volunteer to work in sweatshops. Still doesn't make it ethical.

If you get 'volunteered' then its not a volunteer program.

Ya. Thats why I had said this:

"...it's a volunteer program. Uh, ok ... I guess it's not REALLY a volunteer program, but it *IS* an Opt-Out program"

COME to think of it, seems to me I remember that they were going to try volunteer mods for TSO, but they couldn't - because they weren't being paid. And that that played a part in why they went to Stratics. I'll ask next Saturday.

The IRS took a dim view of the Art Center where my husband was doing summer camps for over a decade. The IRS decided that they couldn't consider these employees "outside contractors." That decision was good for us - we no longer had to do Schedule C's on it - but bad for them; they had to start paying half our social security. So the IRS has its own ideas, and you gotta go along with them.

I don't know if I'm remembering the TSO thing right, and if I am, then I don't know how this would affect in-game volunteers. One would hope that it wouldn't.

coco

This type of setup is actually quite common in MMO* type games. I've done my stint as a Guide in everquest, for example. Generally there is some small compensation, but it's still basicly unpayed. I got my monthly fee waived, for example, when I was Verant's lackey, was all, which, given the amount of hours I was expected to log per month, worked out to like a quarter an hour or something... Basicly I was working for free.

It's perfectly ethical, IMO, and it actually makes good sense - Not simply because its inexpensive labor, but because outside help just does not mesh well with the community... It was very apparent when you were dealing with a "professional" help-person in Everquest... They were the clueless, useless ones.

Thanks Reitsuki. I don't really play other games but I suspected this arrangement was common.

Then why don't all for-profit companies have volunteers do the same work the have employees do?


These aren't communities, they are money making ventures. The community part is the just the PR/marketing hook.

Some indeed do, they are called interns. Its quite common actually and I believe LL has offered internships in the past. There are people who volunteer at for profit hospitals all the time. I kind of agree that foistering forum mods onto the community for free is sorta questionable in my opinion but not wrong. If people are willing to do it for free more power to them, I wouldn't do it because you would have to pay me.. a lot.. to do it. I have noticed an almost total absence of Linden participation in the one forum they should be camping in and that is the technical issues topic, hopefully they are so hard at work on SL they don't have time to spend there.

Because I'm not going to volenteer to work the floor at Nike without pay. I will volenteer to work for Verant withotu pay. Simple as that.



Obviously. That still doesn't negate the importance of community, which these companies have long ago realized.

Having done my share of guiding and forum moderating in the french community of Everquest (for about 2 years lol) I must say that it is not as dangerous as some may think. Of course a resmod that don't like a topic could erase or lock it ... but don't you think the community would "moderate" the moderator and that LL would have to agree with the majority and get rid of the abuser ?

As for working for free ... well as Reitsuki said when I was a guide I had my guide account and reg account for free and in contrary to Rei I had not THAT much time to dedicate to SOE (well UBI in this case) compared to my online time ... usually volunteer work for compagnies have a flexible time schedule.

And I think I'm fairly right when I say that those who will volunteer as resmod inworld or in forum will be either people dedicated to the success of SL and the wellbeing and fun of residents or attention hungry people who will de their best to be known and appreciated (wich implies that they better do a good job lol). Of course there will be abusers also ... but I have no doubt the community can easily get rid of them in less time that Jeska take to lock a thread.

hmmm Rei ? I hope you are aware that SOE bought Verant about 3 or 4 years ago do you ?

Yes, this was around the time I quit the Guide program, actually. Also around the time I quit playing, when the game turned into EverExpansion/ExpansionQuest.

hmmm true ... that's more or less why they got Verant in their pocket ... to make Brad shut up and let them do what they wanted.


Anyway ... back to the thread. I haven't fullly read everything about resmod but I guess there will be a sort of hierarchy in empowerment ... like resmod pointing out to Lindens what the problem is and where it is. Resmods can be very usefull really but it is true that they should never ever have as much power as Lindens (i.e. suspension, banning, warning only with approval of a Linden).

Yup! Only a Linden will do what a Linden is supposed to do.

Guide, not force.

It occurred to me that some Resis with concerns (and I hope they not be paralyzing fears) about this should refer to Jeska's original ResMod post and other formal announcements that have been made, as well as additional posts. They haven't been read enough. There's been far more words about the topic at hand than actions made.

And of course, the ResMod programme is available to all Resis who are interested and meet the criteria... which is subject to change, as the whole programme is flexible.

As I like to quote from Robin Linden's blog:

These things, like Second Life itself, are not static. To be supple and relaxed, and as Bruce Lee might say, like water... keeps it flowing.

As far as I know, we don't have such power. It's still the perogative of an actual Linden to apply true disiplinary measures.

And to be dead-on honest, I *don't* want it either.

I also have the same concerns that CoCo brings up, regardless if ResMod group has such power. There's a bit of muddying at that point between 'volunteer' and 'employee' IMO and is best to be on the cautious side.

As I said elsewhere, its been noted and will be brought up. Please be patient; Like Torley, if this ends up the way some of you think then I'll be one of the first to leave. I had enough of that with the IC forum squabbles just before the Live Shutdown, Gah...

:link:

PS: Y'all realize that under my 'experiment' of just perusing threads, the most worrisome to me right now are the ones *about* ResMod? Just a thought...

Wow the modding in this forum has become freaking lame!

Every coproration I have worked for, we paid interns. We also had to take classes on how to deal with them and what type of work could be assiigned to them so we didn't cross the line and treat them like full time employees. There some clear employment laws that you have to follow to prevent treating contractors, interns, etc the same as real employees, or you open yourself for lawsuits. You learn this in corporate middle management 101, LOL.