If a resident has a cash balance should they need to provide credit card information?

As I posted in Second Life Answers, I am carrying a cash balance and wish to subscribe with it, but I can't without providing billing information. Do you think this is fair?

You ARE wanting to subscribe not make a single purchase. It's reasonable that LL have a source they can turn to for recurrent payments. It's also reasonable that LL have identifying info on you. Unverified! or premium. Being anonymous has it's costs.

A credit card transaction clearing today doesn't mean it'll clear next month. LL, I'm sure, has clear policies regarding what happens when their payment request fails. Why not bill my balance and if it fails next month follow those policies?

So I can come here, and get a chance to orbit people, attack them with freebie weapons, etc, but I've been a considerate resident for the last 3 weeks and I don't get a chance to own land, get a stipend with the money I fairly earned?

A credit card is more likely to clear than a balance to be refilled. And you totally ignored whether it was reasonable for LL to have identifying info on paying customers.



If you want to increase what you get out of the game increase the degree to which LL can identify you. Your pick. Like I said being anonymous has it's price. Is it worth it or do you want to join the rest of the community?

They weren't interested in billing details when I signed up. They market this as a platform to earn income through creation and owning and selling virtual property. I'm trying to bootstrap myself in this world without ever chancing a RL debt. And don't tell me about self control, it's not the issue. i've gotten this arguement in-world already. I'm already showing self control by not giving the CC details.



Are you saying I'm not part of the community yet? LL has everything they need to identify me if they suspect I'm a child or a griefer, they can ban me, they can file charges, they can bar my computer. What more do they need? I want a stipend and a piece of land, If I'm not part of the community already, what did I sign up for? The digital sex worker/camper underclass?

Basic (read free) account for little over 6 months. Upgraded to Primuim to own land.

CC information is simply billing information. Any internet service you subscribe to asks for your CC information (or PayPal, which I believe LL accepts also). This information is needed for various reasons. The primary being so LL can ensure you are going to pay them. Not sure if they would accept a mailed check or not. I'd contact the Billing Department over that if you wish to go that route.

LL provides a product (the Premium account) and can thereby dictate what is needed to gain taht product. You, the customer, can either opt to obtain that product, via thier methods, or to pass on the product. Asking LL to change thier sale policies is slightly unfeasable, imo.

If you wish to own land, but don't wish to upgrade to a Premium, there are several persons within SL whom rent land. Some collect L$ and others will accept USD, by payment methods agreed upon during the rental agreement (usually PayPal).

The choices are yours. Hope you find one that works for you.

~Jessy

There's no such thing as a guaranteed way to make money without ever chancing the fact that you may lose money on your way there.

I've already expended time and energy, I've taken losses of a sort for the US balance in my account.

In RL, we enter the world penniless and the balance at the end of our lives is meaningless. And at that time, we're judged on our actions and our merits, not a series of numbers connected to a credit line somewhere.

I'd hoped I could live SL as I do RL. Silly, I guess.

I think it's reasonable that they have identifying information on you. I just don't think it's reasonable that they publicise this.

fwiw, I think the odds of making enough money to bootstrap yourself enough to pay regular monthly costs are somewhat improbable, which is half of why LL wants card details.

They also didn't have anything to *gasp* bill you for. It's not rocket science that now that you want to buy something they now want billing details.



Either the issue is you lack self control or you don't trust LL with your billing information. In either case your not ready for increased investment in SL. Or of course you just think it's cool to be a rebel and stay Unverified! for the hell of it.



I believe my exact words were "join the REST of the community". Don't create insult where it doesn't exist just to massage your woe is me complex.



They need billing information.

Actually, it's fairly trivial. I mean, come on, even if you went on a monthly plan, ten bucks a month is 3000L. You could make that camping or going to events and contests if nothing else. If you make even a decent product or service you don't even have to do that.

In fact, it's even better than that, cause if you're premium, you get 2000L of that handed to you every month, so you only have to come up with the remainng 1000L.

I think it's pretty fair to ask for billing information.

They're promise of open access isn't quite so open, I guess. I have cash, I have a balance, and I want to use it. As it is, now, if I end up converting my cash balance back to Lindens, I'll lose value on their fees.

Maybe they'll arbitrarily change their rules again on a whim and it'll be allowed. it seems I owe my virtual existence to such forces as that anyway.



I'm currently renting, because I needed somewhere to work away from a sandbox and to work on outfits. But the 512 + Stipend is still the best deal for the money, be it L$ or US$

And in RL we have parents or guardians who in the US spend an average of $139k to $279k(income dependant - Source(Page 5)) giving us our free start in the world.

And you want to live in SL like in RL pony up some credit info. And your not dead yet until then in both lives your often judged by your credit history.

I've been wondering about this. What's so great about being unverified? I think some people just like to play the rebel regardless of how completely idiotic the 'cause' is. I mean come on, you give your credit card to somebody anytime you have to subscribe to any other service, this constantly expecting Linden Lab to differ from reality is vaguely entertaining for a while, but it gets pretty old and makes you look like a buffoon.

Linden Lab is a company out to do two things: Make money and protect it's own interests. If you don't like that they want your credit card info to use aspects of their service, too frickin' bad. You've got zero right to be upset about it. It's more than reasonable and it's entirely their perogative.

I think Reality left a message on your answering machine.

Yes! for a whole list of reasons.

LL needs to know who they are dealing with if your making money and cashing out you can not remain anonymous. for a whole host of reasons scamming I would put at the top of the list.

not that I am saying you are a scammer but there are many people that would make an alt do all the scamming they can get away with cash out and then make a new alt and start all over again with out any fear of any one ever finding out who they really are.
I think if this became wide spread Law enforcement would want to know who you are also

They offer open access to the world without billing info not to additional billable services without billing info.



yep



And that best deal comes with a string called billing info. I've been billed 10's of thousands of USD by LL and not one penny has been illegally billed. Now that you want billable services what is your objection to providing billing info? If doesn't ever have to be used if you keep your balance above the amount you spend.

Cell phone? Billing info.

Cable or satellite TV service? Billing info.

Mail-order? Billing info.

Satellite Radio? Billing info.

MMO Games? Billing info.

Magazine Subscription? Billing info.

Any other subscription service in the world? Billing info.

What's so unreasonable about LL asking for your billing info if you are going to be buying something from them?

*AND*

How in the world do you expect to get the USD you are so keen on making if they don't know your billing info to *PAY* you???

What, you think Philip is going to drive up to your house and hand a check to you personally? Wait, he doens't have your info so he can't. Maybe you think LL has some kind of mind-control device that will tell your local grocery store that you can pay in imaginary money?

This uproar about the whole billing info thing (both providing it and displaying if it exits and/or is verified) is just mindbogglingly insane.

Hey wake up! SecondLife is a REAL product in the REAL world. It's not some sort of waking fantasy. So welcome to how things work in the REAL WORLD.

I'm not saying I don't trust LL. I'm saying I have earned a cash balance, and I want to use it on their services. They didn't stop me from selling Lindens on Lindex to get this cash balance that is now USELESS except to cash out and get a part of it eaten to pay their exchange fees. The best deal for land is apparently homing at an infohub, but then you'll get orbited by a griefer.

And I apologize for overreacting to the 'join the rest of community' sentence.



Linden has made their money though the players who paid them the cash thats' on my balance. They claim unverified accounts pose no risk to themselves, the grid, or fellow players. Or if they do it'll all be worked out when the new land and privacy controls are brought forward.LL is talking out of both sides of their mouth, it seems.

Want to get a premium acct with that balance give them billing info. You can still use that balance. You still haven't said why you don't want to provide billing info.

I could not agree more with this statement

Why when it comes to Second life does billing info have to be treated any different then any other place on this planet.

HOLY LEAPING LIZARDS BATMAN THEY WANT CC INFO... OH ME OH MY WHAT SHALL WE DO?

I have a positive cash balance with LL. Do you give your credit card information to someone who owes you money? Do you hand over the VISA when you're using a gift certificate at FYE?



Yes. Philip is going to come to my house and give me a check... and make me his bride... AND WE WILL RIDE AWAY ON PONY LINDEN.

Er, that's your Kool-Aid(tm), sorry. They will cut checks for a 10 dollar fee. This is a long term endeavor, not a short term scheme.



I agree. I doubt I'd be posting if they'd not marked me like Hester Prynne last week.



LOL! Sweetie, I've watched two people in wolf outfits make out in a club. If this isn't a waking fantasy we all need our meds adjusted.

It's VERY likely that the gift certificate you're holding was purchased with a credit card, meaning that FYE has CC info of the person who purchased it. At the very least, they have your physical presence in front of their eyes and cameras proving that you exist as a real and legal entity for the transaction that is taking place.


And where shall they send those checks? There's info right there.


I'm afraid I don't get this reference. Probably a thread I missed.


They are able to do that by using services that exist in the Real World, provided by a Real World company that has Real World concerns and Real World investors and Real World stock holders that must be protected with Real World policies.

I don't see how SL should be an exception to what is considered appropriate, and probably legally-mandated, practice by any other company.

Yep in Lit class it's a reference from the book Scarlet Letter.

Ahh, I luckily managed to avoid that book. (Unlike others that I read, disected, digested, and cna't remember anything about). So I take it she means that LL gave her a scarlet letter with her unverified status.

Unfortunately, if it werne't for all the children out there (chronologically and/or mentally) it wouldn't have been neccesary. But since there are morons and kiddies out there determined to ruin things for those of us who are here to enjoy our selves and contribute to the community, LL had to take steps to protect those of us who provide products and services of an adult nature, or enjoy adult entertainment, from those who are not leagally able to participate.

It's not a perfect system, no system is perfect, but knowing if someone's provided billing information, and better yet had it verified, adds another layer of legal protection to LL's customers.

Again, SL is a Real World product with Real World concerns and issues, despite the fact that people like me can walk around as a 7' tall Hyena.