Partisian Agains't Yard Sale Queens to all Merchants, check your products for dupping

Thread highjack! I really hate the above picture because it's from a paricularly nasty bit of animal research done back in the 70's.

I know I know, this doesn't have a damn thing to do with this thread --

btw, if the item was bought no-copy but resellable, then the owner can sell the thing. It's like selling your old car. If you can copy and sell it, then you're a thief.

-- but when I saw the picture well, that particular line of research really chaps my ass.

I agree with you on that research, Red Mars.

As for this issue, I have never understood it. Since I have been here (February, 2005), there have been three checkboxes to mark on your goods.

When I mark mine "give away/sell" (transfer), I know the person who buys that item from me can sell it for whatever they can get for it. I do that on things that are good as gifts, which I really don't want modded.

Which is why I don't put "copy" or "mod" on it, when I put "transfer". When I want people to be able to modify and copy - which I do for houses, which I want modifiable so they can change the wallpaper and copiable so if they goof up they have another - then I don't make it "transfer".

I realize they can copy a whole neighborhood full of those houses, and rent them out if they like. And I realize the person with a transfer item from me could sell it for much more than I sold it for.

But if I checked off ALL the boxes, then I would just be letting everyone go into business - as me! That would be kinda dumb.

I think there should be separate places to check off "sell" and "give away". But except for that, I think the permissions system is wonderful. Very nice, very cool, very fun.

I really don't see how anyone who marks their item for copy and transfer can complain when someone copies it and resells the copies.

But if they would just make that change so that you choose either sell OR give away (or both), then that would help a lot, so that people could let others give away their things for free, but not make a profit on them.

coco

I copied a trampoline I found as a freebie.. changed the push on the script (tweaked it to way I wanted) and give it as a gift to those who come by my groups shop. I charge 1L$ for it.. but only to keep track of people who got it to help 'guesstimate' our customer traffic vs total traffic. Also helps to keep track of our first time customers.

Now..is this a freebie reselling parasite issue??..just to find out.

I never said anything about having permission to sell something you own. The point is, when you sell it, you should no longer own it/or keep manufacturing/dupping it for resale without permission from the creator.

The point is, if it is no copy that means the orignator didn't mean it to be copied for resale without permission.

If you own it fine, sell it once and no longer own it. If you sell it over and over with the originators company name with the direct intent of undercutting the company, that is unethical business practice.

Crystalshard, Anisa and I were at a yardsale a few days ago that had an ad up advertsiing your "Original Pounce Bracelet" Fa. It wasn't reselling it...it was using you own texture ad to sell a ripoff version of a pounce bracelet as if it was yours. The stuff they ripped the bracelet from was likely all stolen too, like your ad.

People are getting really low about the intellectual property theft in SL these days. *sigh* Yard sales seen to me to be the worst. I avoid em entirely.

You think I should delete my excess objects instead of selling them?

Clearly you did not bother to actually read what I wrote, as nowehere in my post did I express any opinion about what people should or should not do with legally bought Tranferrable items they no longer want.

What I DID speak to was phenomenon of people making "rip-off' fakes of items they never bought in the first place and selling them as legitimate products. The person in a New York subway selling a fake Rolex did not buy a rolex and wish to resell it used. Rolex made no money from that person. That person made or purchased a fake item make by a rip-off artist and is selling it to unsuspecting buyers as a real Rolex. This is called false advertising and fraud, not to mention intellectual property theft.

So, unless you are saying you make and sell a fake product rip-off of a 'famous' SL product like Fa's "Pounce Bracelet", I don't see how anything in my post appiled to you in any way.

The person I spoke of never bought the product from Fa at all. This person made a rip-off fake "Pounce Bracelet" and took a screenshot of Fa's Advertisment to use as his own ad. Thus "stealing" Fa's business by claiming he sold her "Pounce Bracelt" from this vendor when he did not, and Fa never received any money from this person at all. It's a fake rip-off, and it hurts both Fa, who loses business to a fraud, and the customer, who unwittingly is stuck with a fake that may not be the quality of the original.

Had this person made their own version of Fa's "Pounce Bracelt" from scratch and then sold it under their own name and as a seperate new product, there would be no issue. The issue comes when they use her own advertising sign to sell their fake as if it was made by Fa herself when it wasn't.

Now...please do explain how that comes across to you as "You should delete your excess objects instead of selling them."
I am interested in hearing the logic...

It doesn't.

Accept a freebie from me and go sell it...you hurt everyone you make pay for something I made for them for free.
Cali

Not talking about freebies, lets say I buy a no copy, no mod house from "Happy Housing" for L$1000. I use it but get tired of it and want to sell it to lessen the loss. Why should I not be able to sell it for L$500?

This thread -is- about freebies being resold Ranma..not what you are talking about.

FYI, and not meaning to be rude.

Hell the hot tub I made uses Siggy's scripts but I only charge for my design! I don't take pay for the scripts as I didn't do them.

...

Think I am begining to get the point behind this thread. There is too much American slang in it! I thought "dupping" had to do with making someone look like a baka, ah idiot/fool. Thus I thought the main idea of this thread was that residents were selling their excess crap objects for less and undercutting the merchants by selling these no copy transfer items for less!

Only one question, ah what is a "Pounce Bracelet"? I never seen the name before today.

I looked at other prices for tubs.. found 500 or so.. mine sells for -half- that and I got the scripts as open source. If Siggy -himself- would prefer I cut the price from my owrk lower, then at his request I will. I have tried to remain true and honest to my morals by not charging (in my mind) for the scripts. I simply don't have the accumen to script..

On a side note, Siggy, if you would like a bit of lindens for use of the scripts I can send some right now.. I do -not- steal content.

Yes Ranma and I do apologize if you felt insulted by how I explaine dit.

My beef has always been - and always will be with the folks that simply change the perms (usually breaking it in the process) jacking the price up and selling it - then sending customer support at me.

Why does it annoy me? because when I joined there was a lack of quality items available for use and instruction - when the item is used to rip off new players it defeats the purpose for which it was made, and actually becomes counter-productive to it's own creation.

I made it or as a learning tool - if folks use it as a jumping point to create their own ideas then it's serving its purpose. I have no problem with folks making derivative works and selling them for what they think their time and effort is worth.

Deep down, on a basic level, I think we all know where the line on that is.

If I were to make it again today I'd do a thousand things in it differently - so when will a 2.0 come out?

Never. Not as a free item anyways.. I learnt my lesson on that one.

I completely built up a tub, just used the scripts and left them open source

Hell even the tub I built is modifable, just no copy.

I sincerely hope that my product helps people learn how to build, hope all mine do.

I agree completely. That was a really awful study. Thinking about it makes me weep. We are lucky we can argue back and forth about permission issues and don't need to think about the strain of evil that runs through human nature and makes all manner of horrible things happen.

That should be enough for LL to take action against them, IMO. If the object was no transfer, and they made a duplicate and even put your company's name on it, that to me is clearly theft.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that your only way to protect yourself is to make them no modify in the future as well as no transfer. If people can get in and look at the numbers, that's all they need to duplicate the shape, despite transfer being off. If I were you I would take modify off, and charge people extra if they want changes made (or just sell them as is if you don't want to do custom work).

Even if LL were to jump all over the person who did this, it would not really solve your problem though, which is that with modify on it is possible for someone to steal your work. This is unfortunately a lesson that has been learned over and over in the history of the Internet -- if it is technically possible for someone to abuse something, eventually someone will. Your only real protection is to use the permissions as best as possible to prevent your work from being stolen.

You said that your competition started selling shapes set to modify, and that's why you followed suit. That's another thing to balance in the equation -- if you go no modify/no transfer, will you lose more sales then you are losing due to your work being stolen? This is somewhat similar to people file sharing MP3s -- record companies do lose some sales because of it, but many artists and labels (I think especially indie labels) still sell more records because of the exposure their artists get. It may be better to put up with some piracy if you know that you will still make more sales than you would if you went to no modify.

One thing I don't understand -- how are they using your packaging? Was it just the shape itself that was no transfer, but the box was transfer?

I do think LL should go after whoever was doing this. It's not a matter of reselling something that was set to transfer, this seems like obvious theft to me.


Kyushu

What a wicked thing to do to Blake and others who make products for SL. This seems to be an on-going problem with SL. I agree that the Resell/Give Away should be broken into 2 different options because they are clearly NOT the same thing. The thing that really torks my shorts is that these jerks that are stealing peoples ideas have no idea how long it takes to make high quality shapes, clothing, furniture etc. etc. because a) they have no imagination, b) no honesty and c) no drive to even try to make something themselves. With Blakes situation it is blatent piracy but I think it is also wrong when someone steals and idea, remakes it and then resells as there own idea, although I know this is impossible to stop, i.e. the earlier Rolex example. As far as the yardsales go, I have always thought they were tacky, in RL and in SL but if someone wants to resell something they purchased, that is there perogitive as long as its the original article they purchased and they only sell it once. HUGS Blake you deserve better. ~*~C~*~

I tell ya what gets me about resellers. My stuff is pricey because of the time I take to do the scripts and small details. I have people who buy it, yank out the scripts and resell the object at yard sales.. Then people go buy it thinkign woohoo I got a good deal till they get it home and realize it doen't work. Guess who they come to to fix it? ME!!.. no no no.. if you buy it from me I'll help you. If you buy it from someone else and you have all the peices, I'll help you.. If you buy it from someone else and it's missing half it's stuff.. Go to the person you bought it from and gripe at them about it.

I love buying things that have no value! If I do not like them the only course of action is to delete them! Thank a bunch for NOTHING! Selling no copy, no mod, no transfer is just as bad as those that steal from you!

I will not buy your no mod, no copy, no transfer gomi anymore!!! baka desu

Remember that we don't all need to do the exact same thing. Therefore, if some creators wish to sell things no/no/no then one may buy thing from them or not. If some buyers want things transfer or copy or mod then they can buy things that are set as they desire the settings to be.

There are lots of creators in SL, and lots of buyers. I don't think we should demand permissionms to be set any particular way - it's up to the creator. The buyer is free to avoid those things if the permissions don't fit the need.

Variety is the spice of life.