Insane builders PART II

So it turns out the lady that showed up enraged at my store was not to blame. The real culprits were revealed when I signed onto SL. I had several of my friends message me telling me that some insane enraged person IM'ed them last night reporting that I was *gasp* reselling their builds, ripping them off, stealing their designs, messing up the economy, turning everyone into a furry, lowering the price of lindens and finally inviting all underage kids to SL in my spare time.

It turns out, this nice grandfather clock I bought from an antique dealer was to blame. She was enraged that I was selling her prim heavy clock for $L700 whereas at her store it is L$500. I agree that this was steep but this is how this business works, we mark it up then it gets marked down weekly until it ends up cheaper than the original buy. Ask in RL, this is how it works people -- learn the business.

Anyhow, she may not want her items resold, I can respect that but going around spreading lies, getting everyone upset and causing all this turmoil which pretty much ruined my day in RL an SL is too much.

This couple has been AR'ed for defamation to the Lindens and both of them are banned from my lots.

I will not tolerate this kind of treatment, not after all that I have done for SL.

You may have your own take on the destiny of your builds, perhaps even the ones set for resale but going around and spreading lies and rumors is just ugly. Some people need to get back on their meds, it's a sign.

Troy

So the short of it is, you got joe-jobbed because someone decided to be a chump over their regret for having left their creation Transfer-enabled, and blamed you instead of themselves, and dragged your associates into a tonne of drama.

The lesson: Don't Hold Strong Opinions About Things You Don't Understand, Folks!

Guess I'll have to make all the items I ever make no-transfer, a shame since I won't be able to offer refunds. I just don't like the idea of someone profitting off of something I worked so hard to make, I know it's the same as the real world but as long as I have a shop to put them in I see very little reason why I should let someone proffit off of my work.

Of course I make the same amount of money whether it's someone buying from me or it's a seller buying from me and reselling it, and maybe their shop is visited more often so sales overall are higher, but I just don't like the idea regardless.

I worked hard on my product, I earned whatever money I make. You found my store, bought and sold higher. Which took more effort? Maybe I'm just an asshole. :p I know my ideals aren't efficient but this isn't real life (for me, I don't buy/sell $L) so I can afford to be inefficient.

I wouldn't go crazy if I found someone doing this, though. Unless they acquired the object illegally somehow.

Here's how I see it. You set a price on it, and it gets sold for that price. You should be happy that it sold, and if people don't want to shop around for a cheaper deal, that's their loss. If someone wants to buy 50 just to resell, I'd let them. That's 50 sales for you, why would it matter if they are just turning around and reselling it?

According to all these accounts, I am sure you all are actually buying your groceries by traveling to the nearest farm and buying it from the farmer, then flying to Japan, to buy your car from the factory then rushing back and traveling to Brazil to pick up the coffee beans, going by china to get the grinder, making a trip to mid east to fill up your car and so on... you must have quite busy lives trying to get all of these good directly from the creator...

I guess no one here ever shops at a chain store either? *gasp*

You all are crazy. seriously. And you're driving me crazy today. Where did you common sense go?


Troy

And here's the way _I_ see it. For some creative types, having created something, it is more important that hir name remains associated with that something, than much else.
If I create a thing, perhaps I want people to know I made it. If I go into a store, I might assume the propietor, or hir group, created everything for sale.

Personally. I can see it both ways, but I tend to ask people, "did you make it yourself", and not "where did you buy that", just as an element of how I view the best way to play the game.

Perhaps better billing for the creator, Soku Sieyes, would be in order? Would that work?

Yes, I know that the creator is listed in the details of an object.

Of course, it could just be the seller realizing "Darn it, _I_ could have made 700 lindens for that thing." There are, as I understand it, actual laws restricting that in the real world. If you are an acknowledged expert of antiques, go to a yard sale, and buy some poor slobs hand-me-down, (unrecognized old masters painting,) wall hanging, and turn around and sell it for far more, I believe you have broken a law.
No, I can't provide a cite, or I wouldn't have used phrases like, "as I understand it", and "I believe".

FYI, the builder/creator's name remains with the item until it's last prim is erased (that is if the item is mod enabled). Reselling an item does not make it seem like I made it. If you clicked and selected edit, you would see the creator...

Troy

PS. the said item set for sale at L$500 and resale at L$700 that started this whole affair never sold, not one copy. It was sitting on my lot. The other item that created all the drama was a L$1000 statue (L$1200 was the resale price) composed of 90 odd prims, it sat on my lot for weeks and weeks and never sold -- as far as I am concerned the builder should be happy that someone is willing to give up so many prims on their lot to display someone else's work. I bought both pieces full price as originals, no copy versions from the creators themselves. I do not know how many different ways I can state the same facts until someone decides to read them.

if I walk into a furniture shop in SL and see lots of furniture I really wouldn't have any reason to right-click and search for author info - I would naturally assume it was his shop.

Unless of course you have big signs all over the place saying "these items can be bought much cheaper from their original creators here is a landmark to their store" blah blah

Yes, we would if we had a freaking teleporter in RL! I'd go to the fucking moon for some cheese if I could teleport there in an instant!.

GrrRRrr

I usually just zoom in on google moon and print some cheese with my printer.

That's possibly the funniest thing I have ever read!

Yeah... I'd be fairly angry if I found someone reselling my stuff.

It's my stuff to sell, I made it, make your own stuff to sell, biatch!

"OH BUT EET HAPPENZ IN TEH REAL WORLD ALL TEH TIEMS!1!1"

Yeah... because we all obviously want SL to be just like RL, greedy business practices and all.

I feel there is no wrong in reselling stuff, as long as the creator is cool with it. I can understand arguments based on rl-examples as to why this is not even needed, but it still doesn't sit well with me. The problem is the permissons system. Having seperate TRANSFER, and RESELL perms would solve this problem, and the problem of the selling of freebies.

You could still sell it through a vendor, or do it manualy, or box it and sell the box...

I'm sure it would be possible to set the perms so that a 'resell' enabled box with 'resell' disabled contents can not be sold. Just like you can't transfer a transfer enabled object with non-transfer contents. Of course, people will always find work-arounds, but it will be a big enough hurdle to stop the majority. Most importantly, the intent of the creator will be very clear.

why do we need two threads on this?

I know. I mentioned it in fact.

The point is there is the perception that if you're selling it, you're associated with the creator, if not the actual creator.

I can see it viewed as a type of plagarism. I don't think it's that you turned around and re-listed it, but rather that you had it displayed on your property in a way that suggested it was your work.

I can also see it as a backlash to perceived shortsightedness of the actual value of the object.

In the real world, it is accepted that most people are consumers. Few produce more than a small percentage of what they consume. Even those on a factory line aren't so much artists as skilled laborers reproducing something exactly.
In SL, the producer to consumer ratio is much closer to parity, it not true parity. There is bound to be a clique develop that views creativity as the ends of the game, not just the means.

P.S. I'm not saying that was your intention, but rather I believe that was the perception.

Troy, did the creator give you permission to be a reseller? no.

Do grocery stores buy from farms with permission to resell? yes.

Do factories in Japan and China sell their items with permission to resell? yes.

that's your answer.

This is his product, you do not have permission to resell this product. end of story. Then again, he should have just made it non transferrable. so I think both are in the wrong here.

And sliiiightly off the topic here....
How many of you people buy your pharmaceudicals from Canada?
How many advocate it?

:>

Similar situation, different circumstances.

And yes having joined in July 2006, you really would know the ins and outs of all permission settings....

thanks.

Troy

I notice one point not being brought up in this thread. If you go to a clothing store and buy a shirt that the store owners themselves bought in bulk from a clothing manufacturer, then every time someone buys that shirt, theoretically a percentage of the money goes back to the manufacturer, as the store has to buy those shirts again to restock. Which means the original creator makes a profit.

In this case, however, the clothing store bought ONE SHIRT off the manufacturer, then proceeded to make a ton of shirts exactly like the one they bought, while the original creator of the design is left with only the measely profit of one shirt sold. What's worse, the clothing outlet was magically able to make exact copies of the shirt at no cost to themselves. Meanwhile the original creator has put time, effort, and whatever money was needed to make the item (In SL's case, think of the textures that had to be uploaded.).

Personally, I tend to IM a creator if I find myself buying an item with option to resell that I don't think was intended originally. Sometimes it's intended, but you'd be amazed how grateful have been those where it wasn't.

I believe so. By checking the transfer box, you allow someone to transfer your item. By transfer, if that means resell, so be it. She should put "By XXXX" in the item description if she is worried about this.

Not sure what case you're referring to, but, the OP posted they bought no-copy items, not full-perm items.

I am so suprised there is even this much discussion and debate about this.

Troy is 100% legititimately running his operation as a reseller, entrapeneur, & retailer.
There is no stealing here. When someone buys something, they have full rights to do whatever the hell they want with it. What's next, creators are going to go around saying you cannot USE the items either?!?!

If Troy sells the items at a higher price than the creator, then the items are worth that, and the creator could be making more. Or consider Troy's markup as the cost for the time it takes for him to find these items to sell. If the buyer is too lazy to find the lowest price, then that is why they are paying the higher price... a convenience fee if you will.

In fact, I'd prefer to shop at Troy's store, because he's picking out some good stuff all over the in-world and showrooming it at one location.

Troy, hook me up with a LM inworld.