Linden Labs protecting thieves/Who do we sue?

With the shield of anonymity in Second Life, many residents of this online community who are unable to scratch the surface of their own creative intellect are stealing textures, clothing designs, and even entire structures from their fellow residents and in many cases selling these items for profit. In the real world, there are consequences for these criminal actions and would be easy enough to enforce in a court of law. However, in Second Life there is no court of law and no way of obtaining the true identity of such thieves to have your case presented before a judge without many layers of red tape.

When obtaining an account in SL, sometimes Linden Labs does not even know your identity as the new registration system does not require any identifying information at all. The residents who have payment information on file and who have disclosed their RL name and address to Linden Labs are protected by the shield of anonymity.

So how then is one to pursue a claim of copyright infringement in a court of law with no name to enter into the defendant box and no address as well? How would one go about obtaining this information? Does LL intend to act as a "middleman" in the case? Should we have LL served with a court summons?

This process is far more complicated I fear. While designers scramble to find a solution to the theft problem in SL, these thieves are making off like bandits.

I have seen some prominent designers/builders have work stolen and sold by others. It would appear that some of these designs were making a sizeable profit! (In such case suing for damages would be in order as well.) Then you would have to serve SLBoutique, SLExchange, SecondServer, and any other shopping sites that may come along to provide net profits of the item(s) that were sold.

With real money involved, it would seem as if LL would take a more proactive position in assisting residents protecting their creations. But instead, the thieves are protected. The DMCA is not a governing law for Copyright Infringement and does not resolve the problem. Once a DMCA complaint is filed, the content can be removed at the discretion of Linden Lab. However, the other part can file a counter-notification and the content must be restored according the the law. So where does that leave you? Filing a DMCA compaint is a waste of time.

It's time to start making an example of these thieves. There are many paths to take when pursuing these matters in a court of law. However, with the shield of anonymity, and LL sitting in between the designer and the thief are we forced to sue LL? Does LL have the legal manpower to address each case individually by providing the court with evidence from both sides (and providing it on an unbiased platform????)?

So why then will LL not incorporate more preventive measures into the TOS or CS? Why should we designers have to suffer and pursue legal action to have justice served? It's only a matter of time before someone files a lawsuit in these matters. Will LL deal with it then?

I think a definite process should be incorporated:

1. Make a formal notification to the alleged thief via LL (You type a letter or fill out a form stating that you are aware that your design has been stolen and LL should forward it to the thief)
   
2. Allow the alleged thief 5 calendar days to remove the content or respond to you via LL.
   
3. If they remove the content, then the problem is solved.
   
4. If they do not remove the content, and do not respond, LL should remove the content AND/OR suspend their account after the 5 days until they do respond.
   
5. If they respond with a rebuttal, LL should then allow you up to 14 days to notify them of a court within jurisdiction to where they can forward the alleged theifs name and address. Therefore allowing you to file a complaint in a court of law. (The courts can in fact use the defendants screen name in aka without disclosing their real name to the plantiff.)
   
6. Viola! You are now able to sue a thief in a court of law without having to have their name and address in your lap. The rest is up to you and your attorney should you choose to employ one.
   

At least with this process, we have some method of getting the ball rolling. I think if this process (or something similar) existed, other residents would be less likely to steal knowing that there is a possibility that their information could be disclosed to a court clerk somewhere at the request of another resident who had the intentions of suing them!

Discuss.

I don't think LL even knows who the problem is now, whilst credit cards weren't totally foolproof they did have to be valid and it's pretty unlikely that someone can use someone elses to sign up.

Before they had a name and an address, now they just have an IP address and the difficult task of getting subpeona from ISPs to find out who is to blame.

I agree with you and support your point 1000% MadamG.

In regard to your process, I believe it should end here...



... that is, of course, unless the person whose designs were copied/stolen wants to go further.

Please allow me to re-post my post to an earlier thread created by one of our designers. I would just like to re-post it here to support your point, and because I feel a real need for SL's designers to be heard in regard to this matter.

I really hope LL is listening.

I do a lot of exploring and shopping. Many of you would be shocked and surprised at the designs that are being copied/stolen by many of our residents.

Clothing, shoes, hair , etc. I've seen them all copied and on sale through out the grid. When this is brought to the attention of Linden employees, all they say is ... file a DMCA.

This is unnaceptable.

This is LL's platform. They can, and should do more.

If an obviously copied design is brought to the attention of LL, and it can be proved that the item was obviously copied from the original because the copier made no effort to inject the slightest amount of originality to the copied design, then LL SHOULD do something about it.

Under these circumstances, we shouldn't be told to go through a legally draining process to protect our designs. This is LL's platform. They should be able to do more to protect the designers who are contributing to the success of their platform.

LL should make it clear to all residents, that if you are caught copying a design, and it is such an obvious copy of the original that there is no question it was copied, then that individual who is so devoid of talent and imagination that he/she has to resort to stealing and profiting from others talent and ingenuity, should be made to pay for their lack of integrity and underhandedness.

I apologize in advance for being so straightforward on this issue. Its just that this really upsets me. I have no sympathy for individuals who cannot put forth the effort of being creative and original and coming up with their own designs, rather than resorting to stealing others creations and having the nerve to profit from them ... AS IF THE DESIGN CREATIONS WERE THEIR OWN!

Please do something about these bottom feeders.

Then the thieves steal the stuff, and have the nerve to post a "New Product" on the forums! Not only are we talking about thieves here. But we are talking about rude thieves! I say whatever you are able to do in RL as far as suing them is concerned - GO FOR IT! Use their new product posts as evidence to their non-remorse.

It's a shame, and why I don't sell anything here. Too much of a headache.
Really.

You are right on target! IT IS LL's Platform! WTF? Why the hell AREN'T THEY DOING ANYTHING more to protect content creators? It IS unacceptable.

Filing a DMCA takedown notice is not a legally draining procedure. Have you even read LL's DMCA policy?

If you believe something is infringing and you are the rights holder, mail or fax over a request for takedown, as described here. If you consider that legally draining, then I urge you never to set foot in court...

The DMCA is Crap. I have filed a couple. The content gets removed. The other party filed a counter claim, The content gets put right back up.

I don't think Cheyenne meant that the DMCA process is legally draining. I think that Cheyenne was referring to the actual legal process of enforcing your Copyright in a court of law...which yes - is very draining (especially when you have no name or address to have served).

LOL

Linden Lab probably isnt listening, and i agree with this one hundred percent as i have seen it many times, even at yard sales which is really a shame, and as a criminal justice major, i may not be here long due to the lack of involvement linden lab is putting out, so many lindens and how helpful are they?

Today i witnessed a linden and a live helper, in a welcome area which someone admited to being 15, they werent afk either, that goes to show just how 'involved' linden lab is, which is why im debating on a few different options right now on what should be done, as they are stationed inside the united states, therefor allowing open registration on the main grid, is also breaking their Terms of Service, Member Agreement, and various other polocies scattered about. So that would leave Second Life extremely vulnerable to being sued by an angry parent, that might not know what their kids do on the internet fully, or even us as we are protected by the terms of service, and the other policies, which we are also having unfairness as there are children running about on the main grid, so im in the process of speaking to a few people about this entire problem, so far the ones ive talked to have given me some rather good advice, which i will consider taking, which i wont get into here.

This is the same policy for the theft of the building, i would say a good majority that steal things are children, as i would hope adults would have the common respect to actually respect ones hard work in a structure, clothing item, texture, etc.

So my thought is we sue Second Life, i will also bring this type situation up with the people im talking to in real life, which since i am a criminal justice major, its easy for me to speak to lawyers, and what not, however from what ive gathered from the above underage issue, we would sue linden lab for not aquiring the details for identity, as the open registrations are open, there is no identity, which also points to the underage problem on the main grid.

Have you ever tried going through the process?

How successful were you?

If your answer to the above are "NO" and "I wouldn't know because I've never been through it," then you have no basis to claim its not a legally draining process do you?

The fact is that legally proving that a particular design, under their definition, was in fact copied or stolen, is a tedious and legally draining process.

For instance, one shouldn't have to prove that the exact textures were stolen in order to claim that the design is a stolen creation. The fact that the design is original, and the thief can not show proof of what may have inspired them to create the exact design, should be enough to prove that that design was copied and/or stolen.

Currently, this is not the case.

Perhaps you should do a little research before defending the inept process currently in place. DMCA may work in real life situations, but it does not work in SL.

Once again, LL owns this platform. They are not bound by "beyond a reasonable doubt" type assenine judgements. It is easy to see when a design has been obviously stolen or copied. Under these circumstances, LL should act swiftly and do something about it.

I would hate to have my content ripped off as much as anyone else, but I don't think that the Lindens should do anything more than handle DMCA requests as the law requires.

Once you have filed your claim, the opposing party must provide his name and address to the Lindens. You want that info? Subpoena them. Why should LL devote considerable effort to helping you go to court? A competent lawyer knows how to obtain the information necessary.

You're honestly suggesting that LL should switch to a system wherein someone can make a claim of copyright infringement and that the burden of proof should lie with the respondent? Because that would never get abused...

Yeah, just like the eBay "Verified Rights Owner" (VERO) program NEVER gets abused by a seller seeking to eliminate his/her competition.

What's to stop person A from stealing person B's textures and then

"1. Making a formal notification to the person B via LL ...?"

Yeah. You do that. It'll provide me a lot of entertainment as your cobbled together lawsuit gets bounced out of court.

Please...please do this. My cable's out and there's nothing good on anyway.



More proof that watching "Legally Blonde"! ="attending real law school".

So your claim is that spending anywere from several thousand to tens of thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer, finding the identy of these thieves who may live half way around the world, subpoenaing them, and somehow getting them to come to your home state in the United States for trial is not a legally draining process?

All in the name of a $L250 design right?

Give me a break.

You shouldn't have to hire an expensive attorney to have justice served. If the store across the street from mine in RL is selling an original item that they obviously got from my shop, then I can just go down to magistrate or small claims court (whichever the amount justifies) and file suit against them. I don't have to hire an attorney to do that for me.

And I shouldn't have to have one for SL related matters either.

Nothing. Which would become double "funny" for affected person if suggested changes were made so everyone is automatically considered guilty until they can 'prove source of inspiration' etc... because in the world where photosourcing and --often even unintended-- 'inspiration drawing' from all over the web and RL world is rampant, proving something is someone's original idea is well, rather hard. Not to mention it's really hard to "prove" how some idea occured to someone in the first place.

"No, wait! Doc. The... the... the bruise... the bruise on your head. I know how that happened! You told me the whole story. You were standing on your toilet, and you were hanging a clock, and you fell, and you hit your head on the sink. And that's when you came up with the idea for the Flux Capacitor... "

... yeah, something like that would hold up in court, alright. -.o

Can you show proof that any of the things you've designed came about through inspiration? What could possibly prove that?

True Yumi, but in many cases it CAN be proven that the alleged thief did purchase your designs before they recreated them or duplicated them and started selling them. The only inspiration in that case is the actual product or design they are wearing.

You're either from a country outside America or you're mistaken. If the store across the street from you is selling an original item, they're legally allowed to do so so long as they didn't illegally obtain the original! It's the principle of First Sale. Once you've sold them something, they can resell it to whomever they want. Let's assume that your analogy was just poorly phrased. Perhaps you meant to say that the merchant was making copies of the original item and selling the copies. That would certainly be actionable, but pursuing copyright infringement in small claims court is not nearly as straightforward as you seem to think it is.

As for your claim that you could just hop down to the magistrate and file suit without an attorney, I must wonder how truthful you're being. Do you regularly hop into court (not small claims court) without an attorney? I consider myself legally astute, but even I realize how foolish that would be. Let us assume, however, that your claim is true. That you can just hop, skip, and jump into court and pursue your claim without an attorney. If you're that legally competent that you can argue your case in court without representation, then you can surely draft a subpoena duces tecum and have LL served. You'd have to subpoena witnesses for your hypothetical case against the RL merchant, anyways.

Basically, you guys are demanding that LL step in and act as the court. It's a ridiculous proposal for many reasons. It opens LL to considerable liability, it requires enormous time and effort, and it demands a lower burden of proof (per the suggestions made by Cheyenne and MadamG) that would easily lend itself to abuse. It's just a stupid idea.

A good way to protect your design from this type of deceit, is to as soon as you complete your design, post it to the "New Products" forum on the SL website.

Or perhaps LL could implement a forum titled "Design Registration" where designers can post their creations thereby officially date and time stampng that creation.

If a designer fails to do this, and they have no other evidence to prove that it was their original creation, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

It goes without saying that if you are a designer, you should go through the appropriate steps to protect your designs. That means acquiring and compiling whatever evidence necessary to prove your case.

Failure to do so, will obviously result in your demise.

I hope you all realise that the DMCA wasn't designed to be used by little people.

You've managed to form a wholebigruntogetherparagraph based on assumptions. Congrats!

But what if the allefed thief actually made their own version of the item because they found the purchased original lacking features or quality they were after. And once they built their own, they figured there might be more people like themselves, hence there's market for their item?

I bought quite a few pair of jeans in SL. Yet i did made my own from scratch, because i was after the combination of style/quality that i couldn't otherwise find. Now i can't be bothered to actually put this on sale, but if i did, would me purchasing jeans earlier mean i outright stole someone else's design because my pants are made from blue denim and look like other jeans? ^^;;

You're right. It was intended to be used as a sledgehammer by the RIAA, MPAA, and other entities who frequently espouse a desire for copyright fascism...

Nonetheless, it's still the appropriate first course of action when pursuing a claim of infringement, even if you are just a little person.