Trademark Materal

*Post being made by Miracle Brokken*

as i said b4 for some reason even tho i am a paying member of secondlife i cannot post under my own name so i am using my gf's.

Lastnight i had gotton woke up to hear the news that my gf's items were being returned for using trademark materal. Some1 had reported abuse on her items and mine had gotton returned also. Ok we understand the deal about using trademark materal after we read the note that was given to her by a Linden employee. but 2 stalls over and there were other ppl using the SAME materal as we were. when asked to take a look at them we got the response "you have to file an abuse report". Is this how the system works?! u turn around but cannot do anything about it unless it was filed? but in the notecard it states this:

"All Lindens are required to remove all content utlizing trademarked materials, with or without notice. This includes all RL corporate logos and name brands. Understand that certain objects to look like a RL item is not the same and utilizing trademarked names or logos. ..."

this means u do not have to file an abuse report for them to remove it. Only the copyright materal will have to be reported to the Lindens by the copyright owner. this is the exact wording on the notecard about copyright materal:
"Lindens will not remove copyrighted material upon seeing the items in-world unless the owner of the copyrighted material notifies Linden Lab per the DMCA protocols noted on our website..."

So why wasnt action being taken if u can just turn around and see the items or walk about 70m to the other side of the building and see items being made with the same thing? if they can take them down then, then why have to fill out an abuse report if the notecard clearly states they are required to take them down?! *shakes my head and raises brow*

this is a response that was made to my gf about tm materal (i will not enclose that persons name):
"yeah, we can't have TM images inworld...and Lindens take them down as we come across them or if someone has filed an abuse report"

Also why were MY objects returned, the abuse report was not to me but to love. =/
i did not recieve a notecard, IM or any of the sorts.

And for the person who so kindly singled us out i have this question. Why didnt you single the other makers out?

I know some of you may be thinkin
"well why dont u go and report the others?"
well for one we see it as it isnt our business. u make what u want to make. i have seen so many impressive things in game that replicate the actual items that are TM. but i just give those people applause for the hard work and effort for makin those items.(believe me i know how time consuming it can be)

lol and the saddest part is... rents are non refundable so all the money we put in to get locations are basically down the f****n drain.

Apparently Second Lifers are not treated equally if u can just take one persons things down and not the others thats right around the corner and visible.

yes im heated in RL and yep when i heard what was goin on not only was i up but seen it all happen. But we kept it semi cool cuz others were around. and we also got the remark, and sry i cannot quote this but it was basically saying... they do not allow it cuz ppl are converting the lindens into rl money and all this other bs. yes i do convert what little lindens i get into rl money but i go thru the main sl site so it will go toward my account. and as for my gf she is on a basic account. and i can speak for both me and my gf when i say this..we see second life as only a game. its a place to come to to meet other ppl and create friendships. if we were really trying to make some good money in game we would have to invest a decent ammount of us dollars and we are not ready to make that commitment. we love our sl family and friends and we love having a lot of fun in the game and enjoy others work as well as our own. NO not everyone is trying to make a living out of SL and thats what Lindens as well as some other ppl need to understand.

OK i have rambled enough and this did lift some of it off of my shoulders.
if anyone would like to reach me in game i am Miracle Brokken. Lindens are also welcome to IM maybe i can get a better understanding of how this system is working.

To ensure that current/future builders/designers do not come across this problem please take a look at this site. http://www.uspto.gov/index.html
they do have a lot of useful info on there and u can check and see what is still TM and what u are able to use. Thats my time folks!

any replys to this concern is greatly appreciated. keep in mind im not trying to bash SL or the employees of SL i just would like a better understanding.

~Miracle~ aka ~Mir~

Do you mean you have nothing to sell that isn't the intellectual property of other people?
While I can see there appears to be inconsistant application of the rules here you're not going to get a lot of sympathy if you are using the trademarked and/or copyrighted material of others, and not generating any actual content of your own.

I can tell you this Miracle:

The Lindens require exact coordinates and asset details for every single item alleged to be infringing on a copyright. That means duplicate items, be they 70 meters or 7 meters away might not even be touched unless the person filing the DMCA notice includes precise detail on every single item. The Lindens make the person who's copyright is being infringed upon do all the leg work. Furthermore they do not disclose any details to the alleged infringing parties as to why they are taking the items down or who filed the claim. They will only say that a DMCA notice was filed against you.

The next step, should you challenge a DMCA notice, is to file a counternotice and set up a court hearing for your counterclaim. The loser in such an outcome is responsible for all legal fees. Unless you are 100% sure you can win the case, a counterclaim can be an expensive endeavor (most likely 1000's of US $ in legal fees.)

I would guess that the items next to you have had a claim filed against them too, but since it is a separate claim against another individual, the copyright holder is still dealing with the rigorous requirements of filing a DMCA notice against the other individual.

we have things that we can use as origional content but we seen the best sellers where the known objects as in popular cartoons and such so we decided to see how they would sell in game. but now guess im gonna have to put my commercial art skills in game lmfao!



Namssor i understand that for copyright items but these items were tm. =/

tm or copyright its just a chat/game...we are all trying to express ourselves and i guarantee there are lots more ppl out there besides love using copyright texts. why does she have to take the fall for everyone??

All i gotta say is if u gonna take one down, then take them ALL down. All these ppl that rep Roca, Nike, Abercrombie, etc .... are all over SL n it's not like they're hidden. So if a Linden's "duty" is to take them down as they see it, whether reported or not, then either there's not enough Lindens on game or they just dont feel like doin their jobs or they just dont give a F**k.

Or maybe SL is "just that big" that it can't "all be caught". I dont report noone, never have n never will. Just do you cause imma damn sure keep doin me n havin fun doin it. After all that's what a "game" is about right? Havin fun ...

Do you sell original content and cash the L$ for US $?
Would you care if that privilage was taken away?
Would you care if the privilage to buy that content from other residents was taken away?

If you answer "yes" to any of the above, then you might want to reconsider defining SL as purely a "game", even though what you do with your time may be loads of fun. There are plenty of people that view SL as much more than a "game" besides the folks at LL.

Wow, the lack of respect for intellectual property by some in this thread is astounding. Selling other peoples' creative works for profit is NOT legal. This isn't like a cover band playing a Led Zeppelin tune; its directly copying, and that's wrong. Please learn the difference between copyright, trademarks, and patents. People often get them confused. If you see copyright infringement, abuse report it. "Fair use" only applies if you're using it, not if you're selling it.

If you see trademark infringement, contact the trademark holder, its up to them to choose whether or not to enforce it.



Zaza, you should really read this quote from Second Life's founder and CEO and take note that many people use if for many more purposes than chat and gaming:



Second Life is being featured as the cover story on BusinessWeek this week. That's hardly a gaming rag.

Regards,

-Flip

Second Life isn't a game? LOL. But it's an OS? LOL. Do these people even own dictionaries?

Hey Flip i might be mistaken but LL sees this reversed, they ask you to abuse report Trademarks, and you have to contact the copyright holder when you see a copyright infringement so they can send a DMCA notice.

I think the point he was trying to make was that SL defies simple classification. Yes, OS is a long shot, but in a very technical sense, it can apply as the SL client on your system is neccesary to utilize llScript. It's a Game, a Platform, a 3D Modelling System, a Script Engine, a Chat Environment, etc.

Actually, according to the definitions found here, its not that far off:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=operating%20system

However, I agree with you in the sense that calling it an "OS" is quite a stretch with what most people consider an OS - which is often more important than what the dictionary says. I think "platform", "virtual world", or ever "3-D browser" does just fine.

Frans: Not sure what the Lindens ask for, but to me it would make more sense to let the IP owner decide whether or not to enforce. Many trademark holders choose to allow their trademarks to becoming diluted because of the free advertising it can generate (such as Paramount often looking the other way at fan-created Star Trek uniforms).

Regards,

-Flip

This comes up every few months - and yes LL does have, and always has had, back to 1.0 a policy on trademarked property.

That being said there isn't the manpower for them to go over the grid and look and take down every single item in the world - it's been shown in the past that when such a claim is made (reported) they go and check it out and decide if it is or isn't.

This isn't the first, nor the last time this has happened. It's not by far the first time it's appeared on the forums either - it usually comes down to a heated debate over why person A gets it and person B doesn't - and the answer may be 'person B hasn't get a report yet - or they haven't gotten to that report yet'

Either way - if person A does something wrong it doesn't make it any less wrong or right that person B hasn't been been taken down yet.

If a 2 cars are speeding and the cop pulls one over - it doesn't mean the other car wasn't speeding... and 'well so was that guy!' won't get you out of a ticket.

When using TM'ed materials its the risk you're going to take. So if you feel you have the right to do so (I'm not going to argue that point) - You must accept the risk that at some point it may get taken down.

I just think it's hilarious that some of the avatar photos on SL's main page are 'photoshopped' to take out all copyright infringement.

I'm used to the piracy in SL... however I just laugh at design posers who cannot create original content themselves and rely purely on online clothing catalogs to make their material. Copy/Paste from the clothing's website to the SL clothing template is easy, but to the trained eye.. we KNOW that isnt original.

Pirate on, young pirate.

ok i just wanted to let u all know that the materal that we were makin is not of clothing. We make children furniture in game and all the main structure is of origional building. we just used some of the pictures of the characters to add on to the set. i do have pix saved on my pc of the sets but at this current moment i do not have them added to a site to where i can show an example.
if u would like to see a pic of one of the sets look up my name (miracle brokken) and look in my pix and there will be a picture of one of the sets on the bottom.

I remember reading a while back that Disney forced the owners of a day-care center to remove pictures of Disney characters that had been painted on a wall... that's IRL, and these people weren't selling any Disney-related products or even using Disney trademarks as an advertising tool. If the day-care owners hadn't immediately complied, the Mouse would have eaten them.

That's the thing that people don't seem to get about all this;LL doesn't take stuff down just to pick on you, or to make your life harder. If they had the necessary manpower, LL would police the grid for trademarked stuff. LL is a small company, and Disney, Coca-Cola, Phillip-Morris, etc., could destroy LL with less effort than you'd believe. However, making a good-faith effort, and acting on reported trademark violation, gives them some breathing room.

So, no, if you've had stuff taken down due to trademark violation, you're going to get precious little sympathy from most people in SL. For one thing, whether you like it or not, you were breaking the law. For another, if LL just looked the other way, SL could simply cease to exist one bright morning.

you got Pwned! take it like a... man?

Elspeth for one NO im an not lookin for sympathy from anyone in sl or who works for sl. im simply asking if it is a REQUIRMENT for LL employees to take down trademarked materal if they were notified or not then why were the damn others taken down that were right next to ours and we told them it was rt there. i have read the notecard and i DO understand it. mind u i am 23 not 10. and for them to just take it down it no big fuckin deal. i do have my own creativity i did take up commercial art classes back in HS i can draw my own characters if i really wanted to. i wonder how many ppl in SL actually make their own materal w/o using any help from ANY web pictures, rl mags or pictures. if there is then the number will be slim. our default textures and clothes... hmm pix taken off the net right there i have came across them. everyone uses pix off the net and thats how i was seeing it. but bein that it was brought to our attention about TM materal and we got the notecard its not really a big deal no more. i have better things to do than to piss lindens off or go around SL and rat everyone out that is using tm images.

obviously those who think i want sympathy are surely not understanding where im comin from. so just let it go. i read the notecard & got advice on how to go about it. what im asking about is the 2nd sentence in this post.
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Richie.... i am takin it like a "WOMAN". yes me and love are both females.

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well thats all im out have a great day rl/sl.

~Mir~

Are they really cracking down on Brand Name stealing?! I tell you You are seeing more and more these days. I just hope the crazkdown even more!.Gesh LLabs is so happy to tell us all "YOU CAN MAKE REAL MONEY HERE" BUT! The don`t inform you in that same remark you can`t copy brand names. Gesh Atlease inform the poor ( whats the jewish term again i keep forgetting BF says it all the time )that believe they can make a killing making Linden monies YOU CAN`T STEAL TRADE MARK BRAND NAMES!....

Hi, I think Mr Disney, Ms Hello Kitty, Mr Nike, Mr Tommy Hilfiger and all the rest would prolly come in to SL and look at the small stores and say wow how creative...and what great advertisement! When your just a small store the L's you make go back into the game.


P.S. I do sympathize, They shouldve took everything in the other booths too. Its only fair.

Yeah, Mr. Disney would be very impressed at the Mickey av w/ the 48" dong.

But I wonder........

How if they really would take it that lightly.
Franky Disney is so protective of their rights.....sooner of later as LLabs becomes more and more bigger then what they are we might start seeing them in the game protecting their trade names ...........Never know......................Hello KItty OMG have you seen the direct rip off images here! Its so sad........

HAHHAHA good one! Oh yes disney would LOVE that image.........
Or Hello Kitty with breast the size of small island

AND Nikes role model images dressed as females scream who want to ........ OH thats a good image

Logged in as Cricket ,, posted by Stevie D (her RL husband)
I`m just a kid on SL and seeing familier everyday things on sl ,,, makes it a more fun place to be . It makes it a more real place to play . Makes me feel comfy to have real life looking toys and things . I`m here to have fun so please Mr Linden ,,,we promise to be good , dont take away all our fun things on SL.
SigNED,
Stevie D Bogaboo lilman