Second Life Forums Archive - If Websense Says SL is a game, is it?

FlipperPA Peregrine

Magically Delicious!

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 3,703

02-13-2006 09:13

From: Eboni Khan

SL can't be considered a real platform until things like permissions and technical issues are resolved.

And why not? Hasn't Microsoft Windows been considered a "real operating system" for the past decade despite its many technical issues and permissions problems? Besides, I thought SL was trying to be a virtual platform, not a "real platform".

Also, I can't sign a contract with other Microsoft Windows users through the operating system anonymously, am I missing something?

You can have real, binding contracts. I signed quite a few last week with the Electric Sheep Company with regards to SLBoutique.com.

Regards,

-Flip

_____________________

Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!

Eboni Khan

Misanthrope

Join date: 17 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,133

02-13-2006 09:13

From: Margaret Mfume

If Bill Gates and Steve Jobs come together to sign an agreement decreeing that SL is a platform, it is still not relevant.

If you can't allow that SL varies depending upon the user, you'd have to go with the majority which is the game/entertainment sector. I'm reminded of Mel Brokks' The Producers. In spite of making an awful production for a tax write off, the audience found it so bad as to be funny and it was a moneymaking hit. LL steadfastedly pursues the platform but many more people use it as a game/entertainment. Does the creater define it or is it defined by it's usage?

Margaret don't try logic on the koolaid drinkers...

Eboni Khan

Misanthrope

Join date: 17 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,133

02-13-2006 09:18

From: FlipperPA Peregrine

Also, you can have real contracts. I signed quite a few last week with the Electric Sheep Company with regards to SLBoutique.com.

Regards,

-Flip

SLboutique.com is a website outside of second life and if you signed contracts they were signed outside of SL. So, that reference is outside the scope of this conversation.

There is nothing within SL that facilitates a legally enforceable business environment. The capabilities are not built into the platform; you have to 3rd party/real world them. If LL added digital signatures to SL accounts and charged a fee for verification (sort of like the eBay model) then maybe we can start talking about a business platform. Right now it is just the Wild West.

Margaret Mfume

I.C.

Join date: 30 Dec 2004

Posts: 2,492

02-13-2006 09:35

From: FlipperPA Peregrine

You can have real, binding contracts. I signed quite a few last week with the Electric Sheep Company with regards to SLBoutique.com.

Regards,

-Flip

Did Tim Allen sign the contracts in RL or did Flipper pass a notecard in SL?

(Nevermind, Eboni's already on top of this line of thought. Sorry, Eboni, it's your thread; carry on.

)

_____________________

hush

Surina Skallagrimson

Queen of Amazon Nations

Join date: 19 Jun 2003

Posts: 941

02-13-2006 09:53

There is nothing within Windoze that facilitates a legally enforceable business environment. The capabilities are not built into the platform; you have to 3rd party/real world them. If Microsoft added digital signatures to Windoze accounts and charged a fee for verification (sort of like the eBay model) then maybe we can start talking about a business platform. Right now it is just the Wild West.

_____________________

--------------------------------------------------------
Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nation
Rizal Sports Mentor

--------------------------------------------------------
Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business."
Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."

Eboni Khan

Misanthrope

Join date: 17 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,133

02-13-2006 09:59

From: Surina Skallagrimson

There is nothing within Windoze that facilitates a legally enforceable business environment. The capabilities are not built into the platform; you have to 3rd party/real world them. If Microsoft added digital signatures to Windoze accounts and charged a fee for verification (sort of like the eBay model) then maybe we can start talking about a business platform. Right now it is just the Wild West.

Windows is an operating system, get over yourself.

And you can use digital signatures and fingerprint verification with Windows/MS Office and have been able to for years.

Ok, now for the next asshat response.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

02-13-2006 10:15

I'm voting no, because SL is a game whether Websense says so or not.

Christopher Omega

Oxymoron

Join date: 28 Mar 2003

Posts: 1,828

02-13-2006 10:19

Second Life is a massively multiplayer content development platform. It can be used to facilitate game development, but is not a game in and of itself (there is no end-all objective).

Of course... I could be wrong

==Chris

Hiro Pendragon

bye bye f0rums!

Join date: 22 Jan 2004

Posts: 5,905

02-13-2006 10:24

From: Christopher Omega

Second Life is a massively multiplayer content development platform.

And so is the Internet.

_____________________

Hiro Pendragon
------------------
http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio

Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com

Eboni Khan

Misanthrope

Join date: 17 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,133

02-13-2006 10:28

From: Hiro Pendragon

And so is the Internet.

You need to revamp your understanding of the internet.

Martin Magpie

Catherine Cotton

Join date: 13 Nov 2004

Posts: 1,826

02-13-2006 10:47

When I'm in world I don't hear ppl say: "I like this development platform". I hear them saying "I like this game."

Cat

_____________________

AJ DaSilva

woz ere

Join date: 15 Jun 2005

Posts: 1,993

02-13-2006 12:34

Oh god...

It totally depends on what defenition you're using for the word "game". Why is it that so many people fail to understand how fluid language is?

As it stands, this thread is utterly useless. Although, I'm kinda thinking that might have been it's intention.

Margaret Mfume

I.C.

Join date: 30 Dec 2004

Posts: 2,492

02-13-2006 12:50

From: AJ DaSilva

As it stands, this thread is utterly useless. Although, I'm kinda thinking that might have been it's intention.

Did you miss this post?

From: Eboni Khan

Anyway this thread was not mean for serious debate. I just wanted to point out I can't access forums from work because secondlife.com is blocked as a gaming site.

Eboni's employer has obviously just blocked second life, forums included, due to its categorization as a game by Websense.

_____________________

hush

AJ DaSilva

woz ere

Join date: 15 Jun 2005

Posts: 1,993

02-13-2006 12:54

From: Margaret Mfume

Did you miss this post?

Hehe. Looks like I did.

FlipperPA Peregrine

Magically Delicious!

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 3,703

02-13-2006 12:57

From: Margaret Mfume

Did Tim Allen sign the contracts in RL or did Flipper pass a notecard in SL?

(Nevermind, Eboni's already on top of this line of thought. Sorry, Eboni, it's your thread; carry on.

)

Absolutely, Tim Allen signed the contracts. Why should SL have to have contracts within it? Windows XP doesn't. Linux doesn't. They're platforms; yet, people still manage to sign contracts and do business involving those platforms without the magical ability to do contracts inherent to the system!

Regards,

-Flip

_____________________

Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!

FlipperPA Peregrine

Magically Delicious!

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 3,703

02-13-2006 12:58

From: AJ DaSilva

Oh god...

It totally depends on what defenition you're using for the word "game". Why is it that so many people fail to understand how fluid language is?

As it stands, this thread is utterly useless. Although, I'm kinda thinking that might have been it's intention.

+10000 points to AJ!

_____________________

Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!

Newfie Pendragon

Crusty and proud of it

Join date: 19 Dec 2003

Posts: 1,025

02-13-2006 13:03

Hrmm - my employer's copy of websense had it labelled as 'streaming media'

I'm confused, my world is topsy-turvy, I dunno what to think anymore!

Well...no, not really.

The only people who have any legitimate claim in determining if SL is a game or not is LL. Guess what they said? It aint a game. Just because websense is a third-party group doesn't make them any more authoritative in their decision.

- Newfie

_____________________

AJ DaSilva

woz ere

Join date: 15 Jun 2005

Posts: 1,993

02-13-2006 13:07

From: FlipperPA Peregrine

+10000 points to AJ!

Whee! Best score yet!

FlipperPA Peregrine

Magically Delicious!

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 3,703

02-13-2006 13:13

From: Newfie Pendragon

Hrmm - my employer's copy of websense had it labelled as 'streaming media'

I'm confused, my world is topsy-turvy, I dunno what to think anymore!

Well...no, not really.

The only people who have any legitimate claim in determining if SL is a game or not is LL. Guess what they said? It aint a game. Just because websense is a third-party group doesn't make them any more authoritative in their decision.

- Newfie

I think Newfie's made the best points I've heard in this on-going debate so far... websense doesn't even seem to know what it is, but it doesn't matter, because it's LL's baby. Well said.

Regards,

-Flip

_____________________

Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!

Eboni Khan

Misanthrope

Join date: 17 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,133

02-13-2006 16:30

From: FlipperPA Peregrine

Absolutely, Tim Allen signed the contracts. Why should SL have to have contracts within it? Windows XP doesn't. Linux doesn't. They're platforms; yet, people still manage to sign contracts and do business involving those platforms without the magical ability to do contracts inherent to the system!

Regards,

-Flip

Flipper,

I thought you told me last week there was no comparison between SL and Windows XP. they are either apples and oranges or just both pears, but make up you mind. I am confused. And again, you can make legally binding contracts in windows with digital signatures. It wouldn't be hard to LL to add to SL, but I doubt they want to take that sort of leap into realism, meaning liability.

And this thread was not intended to be serious, you guys get worked up over the least little questioning thing.

Yuriko Muromachi

Blue Summer

Join date: 4 Jul 2005

Posts: 385

02-13-2006 16:54

Err... sometimes it's a game, when I play games, sometimes it's not when I'm not playing games? And sometime's it's a business? Sometimes its just a 3D chat tool? SL being a game is just one of the many aspects of what SL to me is. There's so much to SL that even I'm not sure what to call it sometimes. Makes a it a bitch to explain to other gamers what SL is though...

But the linden's comment that SL is not a game helps though. Although it doesn't help me when I explain what SL is. *lol*

Is it cold? Grab a fresh garlic clove, crush it, wrap it in paper towel, moisten the paper towel with tap water and shove garlic in your cheek.

It'll burn like hell, but if you drink water it's not so bad. Leave it for ten minutes and you'll see an improvement by morning.

Garlic's good against colds and boosting the immune system.

I usually take Garlinase (garlic in tablet form) everyday to keep the flu away. And when I do get it, three tabs is all I need to make me feel better.

If I don't have garlinese, I usually take a tablespoon of freshly chopped garlic, and swallow it like a pill (followed by hot choco to get rid of the horrid taste).

_____________________

Silver Rose Designs:
http://velvetroom.wordpress.com
Please read my shop signs regarding my policies before you buy. If you can't read, then I'm very sorry for you.

If Websense Says SL is a game, is it?
FlipperPA Peregrine Magically Delicious! Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 3,703	02-13-2006 09:13 From: Eboni Khan SL can't be considered a real platform until things like permissions and technical issues are resolved. And why not? Hasn't Microsoft Windows been considered a "real operating system" for the past decade despite its many technical issues and permissions problems? Besides, I thought SL was trying to be a virtual platform, not a "real platform". Also, I can't sign a contract with other Microsoft Windows users through the operating system anonymously, am I missing something? You can have real, binding contracts. I signed quite a few last week with the Electric Sheep Company with regards to SLBoutique.com. Regards, -Flip _____________________ Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
Eboni Khan Misanthrope Join date: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,133	02-13-2006 09:13 From: Margaret Mfume If Bill Gates and Steve Jobs come together to sign an agreement decreeing that SL is a platform, it is still not relevant. If you can't allow that SL varies depending upon the user, you'd have to go with the majority which is the game/entertainment sector. I'm reminded of Mel Brokks' The Producers. In spite of making an awful production for a tax write off, the audience found it so bad as to be funny and it was a moneymaking hit. LL steadfastedly pursues the platform but many more people use it as a game/entertainment. Does the creater define it or is it defined by it's usage? Margaret don't try logic on the koolaid drinkers...
Eboni Khan Misanthrope Join date: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,133	02-13-2006 09:18 From: FlipperPA Peregrine Also, you can have real contracts. I signed quite a few last week with the Electric Sheep Company with regards to SLBoutique.com. Regards, -Flip SLboutique.com is a website outside of second life and if you signed contracts they were signed outside of SL. So, that reference is outside the scope of this conversation. There is nothing within SL that facilitates a legally enforceable business environment. The capabilities are not built into the platform; you have to 3rd party/real world them. If LL added digital signatures to SL accounts and charged a fee for verification (sort of like the eBay model) then maybe we can start talking about a business platform. Right now it is just the Wild West.
Margaret Mfume I.C. Join date: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 2,492	02-13-2006 09:35 From: FlipperPA Peregrine You can have real, binding contracts. I signed quite a few last week with the Electric Sheep Company with regards to SLBoutique.com. Regards, -Flip Did Tim Allen sign the contracts in RL or did Flipper pass a notecard in SL? (Nevermind, Eboni's already on top of this line of thought. Sorry, Eboni, it's your thread; carry on. ) _____________________ hush
Surina Skallagrimson Queen of Amazon Nations Join date: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 941	02-13-2006 09:53 There is nothing within Windoze that facilitates a legally enforceable business environment. The capabilities are not built into the platform; you have to 3rd party/real world them. If Microsoft added digital signatures to Windoze accounts and charged a fee for verification (sort of like the eBay model) then maybe we can start talking about a business platform. Right now it is just the Wild West. _____________________ -------------------------------------------------------- Surina Skallagrimson Queen of Amazon Nation Rizal Sports Mentor -------------------------------------------------------- Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business." Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."
Eboni Khan Misanthrope Join date: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,133	02-13-2006 09:59 From: Surina Skallagrimson There is nothing within Windoze that facilitates a legally enforceable business environment. The capabilities are not built into the platform; you have to 3rd party/real world them. If Microsoft added digital signatures to Windoze accounts and charged a fee for verification (sort of like the eBay model) then maybe we can start talking about a business platform. Right now it is just the Wild West. Windows is an operating system, get over yourself. And you can use digital signatures and fingerprint verification with Windows/MS Office and have been able to for years. Ok, now for the next asshat response.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	02-13-2006 10:15 I'm voting no, because SL is a game whether Websense says so or not.
Christopher Omega Oxymoron Join date: 28 Mar 2003 Posts: 1,828	02-13-2006 10:19 Second Life is a massively multiplayer content development platform. It can be used to facilitate game development, but is not a game in and of itself (there is no end-all objective). Of course... I could be wrong ==Chris
Hiro Pendragon bye bye f0rums! Join date: 22 Jan 2004 Posts: 5,905	02-13-2006 10:24 From: Christopher Omega Second Life is a massively multiplayer content development platform. And so is the Internet. _____________________ Hiro Pendragon ------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com
Eboni Khan Misanthrope Join date: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,133	02-13-2006 10:28 From: Hiro Pendragon And so is the Internet. You need to revamp your understanding of the internet.
Martin Magpie Catherine Cotton Join date: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,826	02-13-2006 10:47 When I'm in world I don't hear ppl say: "I like this development platform". I hear them saying "I like this game." Cat _____________________
AJ DaSilva woz ere Join date: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1,993	02-13-2006 12:34 Oh god... It totally depends on what defenition you're using for the word "game". Why is it that so many people fail to understand how fluid language is? As it stands, this thread is utterly useless. Although, I'm kinda thinking that might have been it's intention.
Margaret Mfume I.C. Join date: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 2,492	02-13-2006 12:50 From: AJ DaSilva As it stands, this thread is utterly useless. Although, I'm kinda thinking that might have been it's intention. Did you miss this post? From: Eboni Khan Anyway this thread was not mean for serious debate. I just wanted to point out I can't access forums from work because secondlife.com is blocked as a gaming site. Eboni's employer has obviously just blocked second life, forums included, due to its categorization as a game by Websense. _____________________ hush
AJ DaSilva woz ere Join date: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1,993	02-13-2006 12:54 From: Margaret Mfume Did you miss this post? Hehe. Looks like I did.
FlipperPA Peregrine Magically Delicious! Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 3,703	02-13-2006 12:57 From: Margaret Mfume Did Tim Allen sign the contracts in RL or did Flipper pass a notecard in SL? (Nevermind, Eboni's already on top of this line of thought. Sorry, Eboni, it's your thread; carry on. ) Absolutely, Tim Allen signed the contracts. Why should SL have to have contracts within it? Windows XP doesn't. Linux doesn't. They're platforms; yet, people still manage to sign contracts and do business involving those platforms without the magical ability to do contracts inherent to the system! Regards, -Flip _____________________ Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
FlipperPA Peregrine Magically Delicious! Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 3,703	02-13-2006 12:58 From: AJ DaSilva Oh god... It totally depends on what defenition you're using for the word "game". Why is it that so many people fail to understand how fluid language is? As it stands, this thread is utterly useless. Although, I'm kinda thinking that might have been it's intention. +10000 points to AJ! _____________________ Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
Newfie Pendragon Crusty and proud of it Join date: 19 Dec 2003 Posts: 1,025	02-13-2006 13:03 Hrmm - my employer's copy of websense had it labelled as 'streaming media' I'm confused, my world is topsy-turvy, I dunno what to think anymore! Well...no, not really. The only people who have any legitimate claim in determining if SL is a game or not is LL. Guess what they said? It aint a game. Just because websense is a third-party group doesn't make them any more authoritative in their decision. - Newfie _____________________
AJ DaSilva woz ere Join date: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1,993	02-13-2006 13:07 From: FlipperPA Peregrine +10000 points to AJ! Whee! Best score yet!
FlipperPA Peregrine Magically Delicious! Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 3,703	02-13-2006 13:13 From: Newfie Pendragon Hrmm - my employer's copy of websense had it labelled as 'streaming media' I'm confused, my world is topsy-turvy, I dunno what to think anymore! Well...no, not really. The only people who have any legitimate claim in determining if SL is a game or not is LL. Guess what they said? It aint a game. Just because websense is a third-party group doesn't make them any more authoritative in their decision. - Newfie I think Newfie's made the best points I've heard in this on-going debate so far... websense doesn't even seem to know what it is, but it doesn't matter, because it's LL's baby. Well said. Regards, -Flip _____________________ Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
Eboni Khan Misanthrope Join date: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,133	02-13-2006 16:30 From: FlipperPA Peregrine Absolutely, Tim Allen signed the contracts. Why should SL have to have contracts within it? Windows XP doesn't. Linux doesn't. They're platforms; yet, people still manage to sign contracts and do business involving those platforms without the magical ability to do contracts inherent to the system! Regards, -Flip Flipper, I thought you told me last week there was no comparison between SL and Windows XP. they are either apples and oranges or just both pears, but make up you mind. I am confused. And again, you can make legally binding contracts in windows with digital signatures. It wouldn't be hard to LL to add to SL, but I doubt they want to take that sort of leap into realism, meaning liability. And this thread was not intended to be serious, you guys get worked up over the least little questioning thing.
Yuriko Muromachi Blue Summer Join date: 4 Jul 2005 Posts: 385	02-13-2006 16:54 Err... sometimes it's a game, when I play games, sometimes it's not when I'm not playing games? And sometime's it's a business? Sometimes its just a 3D chat tool? SL being a game is just one of the many aspects of what SL to me is. There's so much to SL that even I'm not sure what to call it sometimes. Makes a it a bitch to explain to other gamers what SL is though... But the linden's comment that SL is not a game helps though. Although it doesn't help me when I explain what SL is. lol Is it cold? Grab a fresh garlic clove, crush it, wrap it in paper towel, moisten the paper towel with tap water and shove garlic in your cheek. It'll burn like hell, but if you drink water it's not so bad. Leave it for ten minutes and you'll see an improvement by morning. Garlic's good against colds and boosting the immune system. I usually take Garlinase (garlic in tablet form) everyday to keep the flu away. And when I do get it, three tabs is all I need to make me feel better. If I don't have garlinese, I usually take a tablespoon of freshly chopped garlic, and swallow it like a pill (followed by hot choco to get rid of the horrid taste). _____________________ Silver Rose Designs: http://velvetroom.wordpress.com Please read my shop signs regarding my policies before you buy. If you can't read, then I'm very sorry for you.

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If Websense Says SL is a game, is it?