Linden Lab and reverse engineering (libsecondlife)

I think we all can agree that Linden Labs are sitting on a potential winner, if they play their hands right. All it takes is: Marketing and 3 technical changes

1) True internet size capable scalability of SL
2) Open communications protocols
3) Smoth integrated access to WWW from inside the SL client

1+3 is being worked on by the lindens

possibly libsl, can be seen as a means of means of doing 2, in a slow and controled fashion, sort of like testing the waters before taking the plunge.

Mostly I don't like the fact that godmode is being sold. The path to making serious money is to sell hacked versions of the game client?

I could see a client with enhanced features but right now it seems more like profiteering.

Brent got his first wakeup call today at around 4 am.

Brent got his first wakeup call today at around 4 am.

Though apparently that horse is out of the barn now. It wouldn't have been, however, were it not for a group of people given carte blanche to fool around with all of this, if I'm understanding it right.

What a perfect setup. You see, three people created their own god mode modifications long before libsecondlife ever existed. The first two people kept it a secret and used it as a tactical advantage over other residents, while the third one used it as a major griefing tool and distributed it to others to do the same. You can't stop people from reverse engineering things or trying to find holes in the wall. So should we go back to the good ol' days when the few people who could find the holes kept them as secrets and used them to their advantage?

Considering the pile of exploits we are sitting on right now I'd say that's a very dangerous idea.

Rather then open source the protocol, or the viewer, I'd much rather see viewer authentication. If your viewer is altered, you don't get access to SL. If you send data not originating from the viewer, it gets rejected.

Isn't this how many online games prevent "client hacks"?

1) True internet size capable scalability of SL
2) Open communications protocols
3) Smoth integrated access to WWW from inside the SL client

It is the way some games try to prevent "client hacks", but those can be defeated, by any good hacker, with the right tools and a little patience.

I may be naive, but I believe the Lindens when they claim to view SL as a platform for creating content. Taking that claim to its logical conclusion, will mean that SL must be opened up to the internet as a whole, consequently

Consequetly implementing the proposed "protection scheme" isn't in LL long term interests.

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the number of people who have the information to do so to a minimum?

Realistically, no. Taking WoW as example, the eploiters tend to get together easily (thank to the communication wonder that is 'net) and so every exploit any of them finds or any tool they make to abuse the game spreads amongst them very fast, while your average user remains clueless and at their mercy (as developers also often remain clueless about presence of exploit until the use of it reaches some kind of 'critical mass' that starts to leave strong traces in the game database and such)

So, keeping things under wraps does nothing really to limit availability of exploits to the griefers. While on the other hand when people are provided with full information there's higher chance to spot potential problems and circumvent them quick.

And profit from the exploits before they get nixed.

Before you start throwing accusations around, get your facts straight. The God Mode program that HAS been developed by the LibSL team is FREE for anyone to use, download, modify, redistribute, or even incorporate in to their own commercial software (at least, it is if it's BSD licensed like LibSL is.)

Look, the thing of it is, I don't think the libSL crew is attempting to destroy SL, but I do have grave concerns that a completely open protocol/viewer will attract exploiters and cause some level of chaos. Some of this chaos could effect people's income, for example, if a method is discovered to exploit financial transactions. I understand that everything is supposed to be handled server side, but as seen with the llSetPayPrice bug/exploit, one can be surprised.

All I want, is the most secure, stable platform possible without giving up security for free development.

With the exception that some of the libSL team will exploit bugs found for profit, as has already been done.

IT HAS NOT BEEN DONE. The guy that wrote God Mode is NOT on the libSL team. Get that through your head.

Id really like to know how to profit from giving something away free.

Id really like to know how to profit from giving something away free.

If you are concerned, then you should take an active role in informing yourself of what your concerns should be aimed at specifically. If you dont want to trust the libSL crew's word on the matter, take a look at the code and protocol yourself. Blind fear is blatent ignorance.

This is not a situation where you need to give up one to get the other. Infact, they may actually synergize.==Chris

In summary, no. There are no guarantees whatsoever and to be honest no one on the project wants anyone using the software that is going to complain about verification or ToS violations. If you have a problem with it please don't use it.

You'll have to forgive my tone in responding here, I get a little tired of the whole "How dare you question me" attitude that seems to plauge the libSL topic.

Lessee, TOS says no reverse engineering - check.
Your group ignores this and does what it wants - check.

So, you want other ethically impared people like your group to use libsecondlife, rather than those that obey the written TOS - Check.


And you WONDER why some of us do not trust you and (to be honest) think the godmode hack (and a few others I have heard of that scare the hell out of me) are being manipulated by sock-puppet alts of libsl members? You've already shown enormous ethical 'flexibility' in ignoring the sections of the TOS that you don't agree with...why SHOULDN'T people suspect the rest of your motives as being equally 'flexible'?

LL should come down hard on any linden working with this group, ban its members and do what it can to shut down the project and secure the client.