Has anyone else noticed that SL had doubled it's demands on bandwidth and CPU usage?

The problem for you is that doubling bandwidth eats your entire connection, pretty much.

I still get some lag and I get a true 7.5mb/s minimum, peaks around 8.5mb/s download. Upload's no biggie for SL since it's sending you much more data than you're sending it.

That's not *latency* though.

Microsoft Windows XP
Home Edition
Version 2002
Service Pack 1

Dell Dimension DIM4400 Intel®
Pentium® 4 CPU 1.80 GHz
1.79 GHz
256 MB of RAM

NVidia GEForce3 Ti200

Is that what you mean? Anything else you need for me to find out?

coco

aye just the speed difference alone tween some sort of HF radio connection and hard wired connections, even if the transfer rates are the same

for instance, go get some walkie talkies and stand out in a feild, choose 2 points and x meters distance, one fires off a firecracker into the walkie talkie. the other person will hear it in the radio a cupple seconds faster than actually hearing the soundwaves. so radio travels slightly faster than sound.... (for detailed results go watch mr wizard)

electrons traveling down a wire, gets awefully close to the speed of light, much much faster than sound...

ok so lets put this in real world terms, lets say you want to take 30 ppl to detroit, you have 2 choices, bus or a flight... both will get 30 ppl to detroit, but any bets on which one is gonna make it there first? (not counting the random checks of terroist baby strolers and 85 year old men)

theres other considerations to take into account.

is the satilite your beaming to low on juce, and thus cutting back on its rate to save power till the next time it orbits properly (to catch sunlight)?

maby one is busted, and so another takes on 2x the load, boging it down....

solar/atmospheric conditions? maby the chernobyl cloud is atm over you atm

any of those could cause point to point connection failures, and probally making your machine send out packets twice, inorder to compensate...

anywho i havent noticed and increased cpu usage (its still seems like too much) nor bandwidth consumption (and i do monitor mine constantly)

Yes, one more thing. What is the capital of Afghanistan?

Perfect. My adjustments are inside the quote. Also, if you need one built from scratch, I'll gladly do it. I'll even let ya pay in Lindens if need be.

Thank you for the advice, Corbus! I have copied it for future reference. The reason the memory is so small, while the graphics card was so good (for four years ago) is I built (ordered) this computer for my mother, figuring she would never need much memory, but DID need to be able to see the screen (the monitor is high-end, too).

Turns out she was losing her short term memory and the computer just sort of sat there, becoming more of a frustration to her as time went on. We moved her to assisted living, and the computer went with her. After a while, she was forgetting that it was even there, so I suggested that I take it home. So that's why I have one even this new, lol. (It's kind of ironic - since her own memory is kinda small now, too.)

coco

P.S. What's wrong with Intel? What should it be?

LOL you have been so edgy lately, I am enjoying it

Yes I have noticed and when I contacted support they tell me it is my firewall. I guess my firewall changed on the same exact time when 1.7 was released. Very strange.

I seem to be experiencing more bandwidth usage.


I don't have any firewall running at all.

I'm not sure what purpose would be served by your ordering a crate of hot latin ass in the first place, if only to send it back.

You're not in the, uh, target demographic anyway.



That doesn't address the latency, however, which is very different from throughput. The satellite has the disadvantage of having to transmit over significant distances, which means that there is a delay in data being requested and data being delivered -- which is what "latency" describes. I'm not sure how that figures into your current situation, but satellite is widely regarded as sub-optimal for applications like Second Life or multiplayer gaming, both of which have a whole lot of data flying between client and server.

You'll get a lot of back-and-forth on this topic, because both sides have their fanboys.

Intel = More expensive, less gaming performance, better performance for media editing

AMD = Less expensive, better gaming performance, still decent media editing performance, better dual-core construction (more than one CPU on a chip, it's a new thing), faster memory interface.

Also, something to keep in mind is that Intel does fuzzy math on their processor calculations when it comes to mhz. They calculate speed that the system talks to the ram twice (once to the memory, once back from it) and then multiply that times the CPU clock. In laymans terms, that means they're doing this on your processor:

4.5 (clock, don't worry about what it does) x 400mhz (200 to the memory+200 back) = 1.8ghz. Of course, they don't make it look like that if you go to the motherboard and stop fiddling with it. They don't do this on their newest series of P4s to my knowledge, but the fact that they used to unnerves me.

AMD does it this way on the same speed processor:

9 (clock) x 200mhz (Same speed as the intel on memory, but not counted twice) = 1.8ghz.

The end result is that most AMD processors perform, for general and gaming purposes, about 66% faster than the Intel equivalent, which is invariably more expensive. That's why Dell now offers AMD Athlon 64 processors on their highest end machines. I have my fiancee on an AMD Athlon XP 1.8ghz and her computer, if fit with the same amount of memory and the same video card, would at least match if not outperform yours in gaming benchmarks. And the processor, when it was released, was 200$ cheaper that the one in yours when it was new.

AMD is also in bed with nVidia, the king of OpenGL, the engine for SL. The two companies develop all sorts of optimizations for each other. The new AMD dual cores also have PPU integrated into them, which is for advanced physics processing, where the new Intels will need a separate processor card for their duallies.

Intel specializes in something called "floating point" math. The short of it is that it makes the P4 an excellent graphics and video editor, and even enhances music editing. However, since as of this year AMD has 51% of the desktop market and is gaining on the server market, noone is releasing games that really take advantage of enhanced floating point calculations.

Let the fanboy war begin!

Excellent advice, Corvus! Now I know what to look for if I get to get another Dell sometime. Which probably depends on this one dying altogether.

coco <------- surreptitiously takes hammer to computer

You forgot one thing

Intel cpu's = lots lots of heat compared to AMD, yes even dual cores are way cooler then a intel.

Funny how this was reverse a few years ago : p

splain? bad coco,bad....

The high quality of hardware required to run SL without problems probably has something to do with the slower rate of membership growth compared to other online games and worlds. These high hardware requirements were part of the reason why Wells Fargo left SL in favor of a virtual world more accessible for the systems owned by average computer owners. At least thats what my WF banker said...

Damn, I guess I should go hide in a corner or something.

I run SL on a laptop - its a 1 GHz P3, with 512 MB RAM, and a 32 MB GeForce 2 graphics card, with an absolutely beautiful 15" 1600 x 1200 LCD panel display.

I normally run SL in a window, at 800 x 600.

- Jon

A few versions ago I noticed what seemed to be a throttle on the bandwidth coming from SL, it seems they've lifted it again and we're once again getting the same kind of throughput we used to have before they throttled it. This appears to be confirmed by my network monitor logs, although that doesn't prove much really as I use it for all sorts of things other than SL. But recently the bandwidth usage has risen to similar levels to that seen a few months ago. I can't say which version got throttled but I'm sure it was because I suddenly noticed I was only ever seing 30/40Kbytes/sec from SL, since the last update I'm seeing 150+Kbytes/sec on occasion.

Considering they've reduced LOD so much everything now has squared edges even at full detail, and supposedly they fixed some texture serving problem and supposedly made AV rendering quicker ... Why the heck is SL still so incredibly slow ?

I think it's not the client, its the servers that simply cannot handle the number of people. I live in the UK, during the morning and early afternoon here SL is smooth and reasonably comfortable, but in the evening when the bulk of the population is online SL simply crawls.

I can tell you the client has a LOT to do with it. I can log into SL on the computer I listed above, then log it off and log my personal machine in, and my computer gets 20-30FPS faster at peak hours on a weekend. I'm convinced it's CPU related, because the bandwidth being used is still really far from anybody's cap.

The lower end system: Athlon XP Barton core 1.87ghz
1GB PC3200 DDR RAM
nVidia 6600GT video card

Higher end system: Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Dual Core 2x2.2ghz
2GB PC4000 DDR RAM
2x nVidia 7800GTX video cards in SLI mode.

The test:

I logged each in within the same hour of each other and let them sit there and load textures and sims, both facing the same direction. I made sure one was connected to the internet at a time to eliminate bandwidth as a factor. I live right under a windmill and near a wedding chapel, so I figured my place would be a CPU test i could control. I then moved forward and backward slowly on each, watching my FPS, careful not to force loading of too many new textures after the initial load.

At 1024x768 with no graphics settings checked and no card candy, performance was identical. I know the SLI rig can handle a LOT more than that, but that's not what I was testing.

I ran Testmy.net on each machine next, making sure they had the same bandwidth, and were within 100kbps of each other. 7.2mbps and 7.3mbps.

Finally, I whipped out the bling and an assault rifle and started shooting. The dual core dropped down to about 50FPS as the shells flipped from the cartridge (10 seconds of full auto fire), and the single core barton dropped to a crawling 12 FPS.

At this point, while the load IS heavy for LL servers, I think the game is just ahead of the CPUs needed to run it well because of all the scripting. Kinda like EQ2's design, but on accident.

I've found for a long time that SL has challenges using enough of my bandwidth: when I pop often CTRL-SHIFT-1 in a busy area, I peak out for awhile at the set 1000 kbps (maximum settable in PREFERENCES ---> NETWORK), but then, even with lots to download, it goes down to around 700 kbps sustained and I know my Internet connexion can reliably handle more than that. I've had noticeably better experiences on my current box (powered by an Opteron 170) than my old one.

SL is extremely CPU-intensive. A basic way to see this is check Windows Task Manager and notice how it uses close to 100%, or in my case, close to 50% on one of the cores.

I like how you explained your testing, Corvus--do you crave multithreading for SL too? (We're both on dual-core systems, hehe.)

Have you tried OC'ing that Opteron, Torley? Those things are binned under tighter specifications than the X2s and have been getting some wild overclocks on stock cooling. If you aren't an OCFORUMS.COM junky, it'll make you one.

ABSOLUTELY would I like to see SL pass off some of that work to my other core. As it is, the new AMD drivers will pass load between them (by default on yours, with the Opteron) but since it's all on my end, it's not as good as it COULD be.

Consider my system volunteered for any concept testing!

BTW I WILL DO UPGRADES ON COMPUTERS FOR L$! So if you need yourself the new tech, I'll price it and send you back the total, including any shipping, and we'll figure it out from there. You'll see advertising for this service pop up in Jarang soon, after I'm sure some of my rather...Standards-violatish neighbors have relocated. Those $200 processors will be a hell of a lot cheaper if you're paying for part of (if not all of) them with your stipends!

CorvusTech, the premiere L$-based Computer Store!

Edit: This company is in existence as of this post. [email]CorvusTech@gmail.com[/email] for details.

(Torley, if you Lindens could give me an idea of how much cache you use, it will help)

I think the bandwidth throttling is not working properly. If you watch the debug output for a while, you'll notice that SL dynamically changes the bandwidth throttle, however for the maximum it uses higher values than what you have set in network preferences. This change is relatively recent (past few updates) - it didn't go above the maximum from preferences before. I don't know which part is broken (the debug output numbers or the actuall throttle) but it could explain your increased bandwidth usage - you kept your settings the same but SL internally now uses more.

^ Could be... that seems to be my experience too.



Lurve the enthusiasm and the goto action!!!

I have OCed a little bit... hehe. Maybe more in the future. I wrote about my experiences with my new computer earlier, for anyone who's curious.

Ah, about cache--not sure of what. What exactly do you want to know?

Consider it like an "in between" point for the CPU to the RAM. It's a storage point for stay-resident programs, I don't imagine SL uses much at all. More of an OS kinda thing.

I think in general it would help famously if LL created a benchmark program using sample sims, since we know a lot of this involves the CPU, and would also test video cards. This would allow people to know what kind of performance to expect and to be able to tweak engine features offline. Disclaimer that bandwidth is a determining factor, but if LL can put something out that really cranks the CPU just like being connected (if need be, make it run Prime95-like stuff in the background to simulate this), I bet there would be a lot less complaints once people actually signed in.

Brilliant! I once suggested something similar myself. I don't know how doable it is, but I'd like an easy RED/YELLOW/GREEN light system. It's in all our best interest to be aware of how well a computer will do with SL, as easily--and as early--as possible.

There's a much simpler way.

Take a server down. I know, scary. Just offline some poor sods island, if you tell him why, he'll/she'll be glad to help im sure. It'll only take about 2 hours to get this right. The problem will be choice of testing grounds, you'll see why in a bit. If all else fails, build the island yourselves.

The reason you're doing this is to eliminate any latency.

Now, hop onto that server directly. As in sit down at it and give her a crank.

I'm sure you guys have the tools for what I have in mind next, but if not.....get them . They're easy to obtain or make.

OK, here's the deal. The island selection process is trying to find something with some of everything, with a nice dense city on one end, an open empty field on another, and reflective stuff and all sorts of T&L opportunities between start and finish.

Without entering the world itself, make a line-track for a camera to follow. It starts at the end of the island that is bare, moving into a woody area with reflective pool, then through the city, then into a store and out straight through a wall (tests GPU and CPU in ways you wouldn't believe to do that). Take it down and through a club with lots of objects in it, including non-prim walking "dolls" to simulate other avs, and make them walk and dance. Then, go up through the roof, passing through a level filled with smoke and then out of the building into the clouds. Then aim downward, rush the ground, and come into a landing at an airport-kinda setup.

So yeah, LL just needs to make this themselves unless someone volunteers ;P

This tests general framerate, particles, T&L, reflections, sound if you put it in, prim rendering, av rendering, cpu <-> Ram latency, GPU, GPU and CPU heat, and everything else you can imagine.

If the benchie performs better than SL on a system, just choke the CPU with some prime crunching in the background.

Edit: Torley, saw the site, and you are solidly the pinkest person I've ever known. Congrats

Edit again: I should probably clarify that after you're done recording the camera macro, just code it into an executable and toss it in the install package.