do you consider basic accounts to be inferiors?

Ever wonder if the negative persona you portray on the forums impacts upon your numbers?

I'd hope that people weren't that shallow. The quality (or lack of, depending on how you want to consider it) of what I provide shouldn't make any difference as far as how 'popular' I might be, or whether I might 'win teh forumz' in anyone's opinion of what I provide.

As the vast majority of the playerbase don't seem to use the forums, and therefore won't have even come across any of my posts, I would guess that what you claim isn't really relevant.

Lewis

So much supposition! Do you have the figures to back this up at all? I haven't seen anything that gives a figure on retention and yet, we do have indicators that show that people are being retained - the number of people online at any one time, for instance, goes ever higher. Although not an exact indicator of retention, it does suggest that retention is happening.

As for myself, sales have never been better. My volumes now compared to a year ago have increased at least 100%. But, you know, there is another problem that might be the reason your sales haven't gone up considerably - visibility. As the world grows larger and larger, getting your product in-front of those new arrivals is more difficult. However, that's the content creator's problem.

Linden Lab is doing its part, getting the number of people in-world growing quicker than it's ever been, it's the content creator's job to get their product in front of those people. They're not just going to land on your lap.

Saying that your sales haven't doubled as a reason to suggest that these new accounts aren't being retained is flimsy at best. There are so many factors that could lead to your sales not increasing.

Make a better product. *grins*

Seriously, (and that was just kidding, Lewis) the influx/attrition of players, both Premium and Basic, is always going to change. Yes, Basics leave more often then Premiums. That's why the Basic is there. To see if they like SL. Basics need time to learn SL, find what they want, then decied if it's worth it all.

Personally, I see high-priced content in SL and am no longer buying it. I'll either make it myself, or wait till that new Basic account creates it so I can buy it there for less. Persons following the rise and fall of teh economy are panicing too much as of late and jacking thier prices.

I feel for those who make a RW living off of SL, but that was a risk taken. To me, SL is for fun. If I can make a side-profit off of it, all the better, but it's not needed. Jst a bonus.

So the fall of the L$ does not really mean a thing to me in a world where I can create everything I want, and where everything else could possibly be made by anyone tomorrow.

Would I like the L$-$ higher? Heck yeah! Would make it better all around. But the value is driven by those with the money and by thier decisions. Good and bad. Selling L$ at inflated prices is bad. Selling content far above its worth is bad. Greed makes for a poor economy. RW and in SL.

My advice? LL should kick the 3rd party buyers/sellers of L$, cap it at 300L$ (currently), and regulate the economy with an iron fist until the whole of the platform (or game for you Lewis) stabilises. At the current level, it is apparent that those whom are buying/selling now are not able to do so in a mannor that benifits SL. From greed, not caring, or from not understanding.

Welcme to the Matix. Don't mind that cat walking twice.

~Jessy

I know I don't have a huge range of fantastic products for sale - but that's not the basis of this statement. I'm basing my population comment on the "online now" figures on the homepage which have gone up perhaps 5% in the same time that the population (created accounts) has gone up 100% - and out of that 5%, how many are just alts of existing players isn't known either.

Lewis

Says Lewis 'its just a game' Nerd.

Part of the problem is that I simply don't have more time to spend on development, because of silly things like work and sleep getting in the way.

If I was to spend all of my online time every day creating stuff to sell, rather than socialising, playing Tringo or whatever, then I can see me losing interest - and enjoyment rapidly, to the point where there's no point in me playing any more as it's no fun.

Whilst no doubt a few people here would party that day... it's not part of my plan.

Lewis

Lewis, the online now figures are rising considerably. It was only in March that we were at 6,000 online at once and now it's even higher. But, and here's a big but, what I'm also noticing is that right throughout the day the number of people online is much higher. Look at right now, nearly 2800 online.

I remember a log-a-thon early last year where they were aiming to get 5,000 online at peak time. They only got about 3,500. Now we're getting close to that figure being online at any given time of the day (and at the real busy time, we're double that 3,500), and a log-a-thon now would probably get nearer 8-9000 at a guess. Looking at those figures, the number of active residents does appear to be increasing a lot, so there must be a fair amount of retention going on.

PS> Just been digging some more about maximum users online. At the end of Novmber 4,000 was the highest reached, in January it was 5,000, in March/April it was 6000. Not sure exactly what it is now, 7000-ish? None of that even comes close to your 5% - it's increasing dramatically.

90-day trial period -- if they don't upgrade, they're out.

They're tourists until they start contributing.

Cool, I guess you didn't bother to read the thread, or even just think about it for more than a few seconds, otherwise you'd realise just how wrong you are about them not contributing.

Thank you for your insightful comments, please come again soon!

The only need someone has for a premium account is to make a little home for themselves where they are able to express themselves to a virtual world. Some people don't need to do that - some people do.

I am sure I was entertaining as a newbie, entertaining as a basic account person and by GOD I know I am entertaining as a lady with a house of mystery!

The people who are the real providers of entertainment are, in the main, the ones with the personality to shine through, the ones with time for other people, the ones who care and can give and take the love that should be running through this world. How much money or land they have shouldn't be an issue, and it's a shame there is so much cynicism aimed at new people as easy L$ marks.

From my point of view, being landless equated to being ungrounded - I have made sure that my friends who are currently a little strapped for cash can live on my land for nothing until they have expendable income.

Nice sentiments.

I have a basic account, so does my rl husband. Some months we have the cash to pay $20 USD for more Linden dollars in our accounts, some months, we don't. Should we be unable to play and more importantly pay content creators simply for being unable to afford the monthy fee it would cost for both of us to have an account?

And Lewis Nerd's example of TSO is laughable. I was a beta tester who stayed for about 9 months after TSO went "gold". I'd still have an active sim if it didn't cost 9.95 a month to keep it and I might have logged in once in awhile. But I couldn't justify paying money every month for a game I don't play anymore. I don't think they even have 3 "cities" worth logging into anymore, because so many people have left. If LL treated our accounts the same way, wiping your character after 90 days when you no longer have a "premium" account, I wouldn't have come back to SL after nearly a year of not logging in.

I had a premium account in the past, payed $72 up front for a whole year of SL. I bought land and paid tier. When my life situation changed and I wasn't going to have time for SL (also had a crappy DSL provider that made my SL experience miserable-couldn't even move, it was like being on dial up) I didn't renew my premium account. When things got less hectic in real life and we got back on a cable connection, I came right back to SL, where my avatar and inventory were waiting for me, intact. Someday, I might have another premium account again. All I know is, I like it that LL gives us the options they do. I spend a lot in world, when I have the L$ to spend. If my account and av had been wiped, I doubt I would have come back and stayed.

Ya might wanna look around SL a bit before you claim that basic account holders don't contribute. Some of the best content has been created by basic members, some have gone on to become premium members while others remain basic members. But seriously, how is SL adversly affected pending someones membership status?? It's NOT! Basic members have the same ability to contribute financially to SL as premium members do, just not in the same ways.

By creating content ANY member is contributing to several things that enhance SL, after all, without content SL would be just another 3d chatroom and since we the residents of SL (basic and premium members alike) are the ones that create said content, we are ALL necessary for SL to thrive and grow REGARDLESS of membership status.

Basic members also contribute by buying L$ to spend on content and rent land. Think about it, without basic memebers the economy would be worse than it (supposedly) already is. There would be fewer people in SL and therefore fewer buying products inworld and fewer buying L$ on the market. With fewer people spending money (real or otherwise), SL would simply fail...end of story.

If you (and I say this in a general sense, not directly at you Merlyn) had a RL business, would you cater to only the rich hoping that enough of them would come to you to keep you going? Or would you instead, open your doors to everyone so your business could thrive by serving a wide array of people? Keep in mind that many "rich" people got that way by NOT spending their money, simply hoarding it. For example, as a pizza delivery guy in my teens I found that by and large when you deliver to a blue collar neighborhood you get awesome tips, yet when you deliver to a white collar neighborhood you get asked for exact change.

Just some food for thought...no pun intended...heh

Using your numbers and being very generous the retention rate show no incress at all. One year ago with the max online was 3500 and now it has doubled to around 7000 or it doubled. During that time the number of residents has more than doubled. If anything it shows a decrease in the amount of retention. being more genrouse and using the 9,000 figure for a logathon then the rentintion would still be nearly the same as the growth rate. Even going with your shorter time frame of november to april it simply matches the growth in residents since in that time frame SL hit 100,000 members and 200,000 member milestones. This month with our 226,000 members we are only managing to have 3% our our uses online at one time at maximum and average a a little over 1% online at any one time. In april we hit 200,000 and had the same 3% of uses online maximum.

I'm a basic account (BA?) for the very simple reason that every time I've gotten serious about upgrading and buying land, the grid has crashed. (Literally that happened twice while I was looking for land.) Or I haven't been able to find an "aesthetically-decent" piece of land that wasn't surrounded by large, garish boxes that tended to "rock" at odd hours. (Sure, I'm a superior snot. Screw you. That's what your box is for, isn't it?) Or, I discovered just how many prims I need to do what I want to do, and 2048m2 just don't cover it, baby - and $125 a month ain't happening either.

So tattoo a Scarlet BA to my forehead and make me shove my skin-tone sliders all the way to one side or another. Build a few thousand park benches and steamgrates on the mainland for me and my kind. Round me up, charge me under the "law", and deport me back to World of Warcraft. Ain't no place in SL for my type of people.

Thank God you can't smell me, right?

I guess your idea of retention is different to mine. Max number online matching growth equals the same level of retention there has always been, which means that new account creations are being retained as active at the same or similar rate as SL has always achieved. The difference is there are more new account sign ups, so overall the population levels in Second Life are continuing to increase quickly.

BTW, the original 3,500 was a special "log-a-thon" where the Lindens tried to get as many people on as possible at once. At the time 3,500 was way more than the current maximum and was only achieved by a special log-a-thon event with a give away. My point was that at that time (January 2005) you had to push a single time frame to get that level - now you're having 7000 on easily as a max every day. Do a log-a-thon now and you'd easily beat the 7000 maximum. So you can't exactly compare that 3,500 to the maximum now of 7000, you'd have to compare it to something like 8000 or 9000 which is what a similar log-a-thon would attract I suspect.

In my day to day life I do not believe any person or group is inherently better than any other group. That is true for 2nd Life as well.

That said I would like to see an end to the creation of NEW FREE basic accounts. These accounts have been gamed horribly. NOTE: I did not say all Free basics were gaming the system just that it being done and often.

I would love to see a return to the 1 time free 14 day trial followed by a 1 time $9.95 fee for a basic account. 14 days is long enough to decide if a person wishes to stay and paying 10 bucks once is hardly unreasonable.

Retention is the precentage of people who stay not their number. While the number of people doubling in second life is nice it has no increase in retention.



I used your 9,000 fiqure for what we could get in a log-a-thon and it showed no increase in retention over time but I didn't have enough data do do more accuratly. If you have a number of residents during that time we can see just how well the retention was then compaired to now.

I'm on a basic account simply because Flipper handles all of our land management stuff. This doesn't make me inferior by any means - we own land and always have, we contribute to Second Life as a whole etc. I guess its different for different people, especially when you throw RL couples/partners into the mix. Jennyfur will probably always be on a basic account for what its worth. I don't need to be premium for anything at this point in time.

Oddly enough, my alt has a premium account though so that I could remain completely separate from the Flipper & Jennyfur world.

I have not said, at any point, that the retention rate has increased. I have only said, contrary to what Lewis Nerd said, that people are being retained and that it is at the same or similar rate as it's always been. Lewis was suggesting that it was vastly lower than it has been before.

To be honest, I wouldn't expect the percentage of people being retained to increase and if anything I'd expect it to drop as a wider variety of people find out about Second Life through differing media sources, exposing Second Life to an audience that it fits less well with but who give it a go. All I have been saying, however, is that people are being retained. What the actual percentage is I don't know, but it wouldn't appear to be be a whole lot different now to what it was a year ago.

Well then to get back on topic I have a question to those people who belive the any of the basic accounts are freeloaders. How many gigs do servers has reserved for your e-mail for free? How many megs of video do you watch and upload to youtube and google video? How many pictures do you have hosted for free on the internet? How may mp3's has ytmnd downloaded to your computer so you can see a few seconds of funniness.? How many forums and websites to you go to for free in a day? How many flash movies and games have you watched for free this month. How much have you paid for news you read over the internet? Just name 3 websites that you are paying a subsription to? The internet is built on the backs of freeloaders who at most sell a few seconds of the time looking at ads. We are all freeloaders and if SL wants to replace the internet as we know it then they will have to start making money them just like the rest of the internet does. Subscription is for games not for platforms.

wow... as i can see a lot of peoples get very violent on the topic

however i would like to put a difference, contributing to SL's economy isn't contributing to LL's benefit, so if you buy L$ on the lindex you buy them from the other SL uses, not from LL (though they take a little percentage)

however if you get a premium account you effectively show your support to Linden Labs, the peoples that rent arent a really good deal for LL since they rent from land barons that get the best $/sqm deal in tier

Move over, that grate is mine!

For a slightly more serious reply to the thread, I'm a basic account for two main reasons: 1) I'm not regularly on SL, and 2) I have no need for land at the moment. Why pay $10/month for a service I use maybe once a week, for an hour or so, or for land I don't need, having nothing that won't tuck nicely into my inventory?

(I also, for the record, don't buy the "$10/month is nothing" schtick. It may be nothing for you [generic "you"], but you aren't me, so if you try to tell me what is and isn't acceptable for me based on what is or isn't acceptable for you, don't be surprised if I give a one-finger salute. )