do you consider basic accounts to be inferiors?

Well there you go, so there's no unfairness whatsoever as the stipend you get pretty much cancels the standard premium account cost anyway and you can own 512m2 tier free.

That's why I use the term reverse entitlement - lots of premium account owners moan about the way some basic account owners have a sense of undue entitlement. You did the same from a premium account holder's point of view, without realising that actually you're already getting enough. But you suggest in your first post that you should get more, which is an undue sense of entitlement in my book.

Anyway, glad to see you've actually worked through the economics of the premium account cost now. It's quite obvious that you're getting what you pay for - in fact you're pretty much getting enough to totally negate what you pay at the US$9.99 level!

Um - which person would that be? The same person who is lazy and shiftless, and comes over here and takes our jobs and women? That one? Or the person you sometimes find in Britain, who is on welfare benefits, and owns six Rolls Royces, smokes expensive cigars, lives in a luxurious Spanish villa, and only comes to this country to pick up his welfare payments?

I think I know the one you mean.

</IRONY>

Which is exactly how they should be looking at it. It is a business.

Why do people rent in RL? Some can't afford the deposit to buy, some like to keep mobile, some like an area where there's nothing to buy.

Why do people buy in RL? They can afford to make the initial investment, they want the stability of staying in the same place, they find a nice area with a nice place to buy.

Exactly the same mentalities work in SL. It's not really about an advantage, it's about personal preference as much as anything.

<sarcasm> Well thank you for restating exactly what I said and patronisingly pointing out the fact that I can see more than one side to a debate in the interests of gaining a greater insight than if I dogmatically held on to a single point of view </sarcasm>

You're still not "right" per se. LL could adopt any number of payment & subscription models. Profitability on their part is important, but so is perceived value on the part of the customer. Those who disagree with you aren't "wrong" and if there enough of them to make a difference LL would be wise to consider that.

The general population really don't give a monkeys what kind of account you have, or how much you contribute to the world. The only people who make an issue of are people who troll the economy forum.

Sorry, but this is just the same old vocal minority shouting 'poor me lets find a skapegoat'. How long before this thread turns into yet another rant about the unfairness of stipends.

Yep, the same people who complain about the falling value of a non existant currency.

Lewis

Actually what I was saying is that you'd originally said that premium accounts should get more without actually realising that what you were getting already basically offset your whole US$9.99 payment and lets you own 512m2 tier free. You only realised that when you bothered to look, after the fact. That's not patronising, that's saying that really you shouldn't start saying you should get more when you don't even realise the value of what you're already getting. But, unfortuantely, the world is full of people like that. People much prefer to feel hard done by, or that things are unfair, rather than uncover the reality.

Unfortuantely most of the railing against basic accounts comes from that point of view.

Or, on the other side, the same people who purposefully troll Land and Economy to basically tell everybody they're stupid for not toeing the Lewis Nerd "it's a game and if you treat it as anything else you're wrong" line.

Like...well....you.

It's all about perception! Just like in RL when we see someone living in the nicest house, driving the nicest cars and married to the best looking person we immediately think "man do they have it great"...but how do we know? Simply because it APPEARS that way from the outside?? Perception and appearances are a failing way to judge situations. For all we know that person is in deep depression and will be killing themselves next week because they can't take the pressure of their (percieved by you) "perfect" life. So until we can literally put ourselves in the shoes of everyone else, we'll never really KNOW the truth and will forever be speculating and PERCIEVING things incorrectly. Sure, sometimes perception is accurate, but the majority of the time it is not.

Does it matter more what someone pays to play SL rather than what they contribute? I know many basic account holders that have contributed to SL in so many ways it could make your head spin (including helping to support big land owners by renting land from them and hence supporting SL, as has been previously mentioned in this thread). Yet on the reverse side of the coin I also know many premium account holders that have contributed exactly NOTHING aside from the precious $10 a month some of you are seeming to claim will make or break SL. The big picture SHOULD be what any given person contributes to SL by looking at everything they do, not simply how much per month they're paying LL directly to play! So should basic accounts have limitations or should premium accounts get something more than WHAT WE ALREADY AGREED TO PAY $10 a month for? I don't think so, otherwise I never would have agreed to pay the $10 a month in the first place. (and incase it's not already obvious enough, I am a premium account holder with tier as well, not that it matters or is ANYONES business but my own)

So why not stop pissing and moaning about what you percieve 'the other guy' (known to many of you as freeloading basic account holders, though I obviously disagree with this term/stereotype) as having/contributing and just focus on what YOU have and do your best with it and then perhaps take a little time to actually get to know 'the other guy' and then you'll KNOW what he has/contributes! Or I suppose we could just continue fighting like five year olds about who got the bigger present before seeing what's actually inside the box...

Well said Herzog *claps*

Damn right.

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how people attack me for daring to remind them that SL is a game, yet when the same people go on and on about SL is a platform, a business or whatever, it's fine for them to state their opinion.

I can't stop you treating a game as whatever you choose to - so kindly stop trying to make me change my view.

Lewis

Are the totally incapable of distinguishing between yourself, who states that it is just a game and anybody who treats it as anything else is wrong, and those, like myself, who say it's many different things to different people? The difference is that you stipulate that anybody who thinks it's not a game is wrong, stupid or heading for a fall. I've never said that and never would about any way in which a person chooses to experience Second Life. Different people use Second Life for different means.

That nuance, unfortunately, seems to be utterly lost on you. And you continue to berate those who don't feel that way, mainly on the Land And Economy forum.

I have a 'Basic' account also and I think I do my best to help support the game. This may not be a $9.95/mo payment, but...I rent land (approx. 3/4 of a sim) from one owner, and another large lot from another. I also rent a few spaces in SL for my product sales. Total of 'rent' payed per month is approx. around the $25,000 mark.

Not to mention how many times I have helped others and given away many of my items free of charge to bingo, tringo, etc. for prizes so they could bring in people and help their dwell. Actually I would help anyone that asked me too...no matter which account you have.

The reason for my not having a 'premium' account is due to health reasons; in April of last year I had a stroke and had to leave my job (my hubby won't support my SL habit). Before that I had a premium account and land for my shop, now I rent from someone and pay them. No difference is there?

However, I could be making lindens in SL and selling them on the net for USD's, then I could see all the fuss between the accounts...that would be getting something for nothing!

Its not a game to lot of people, your inability to see it as anything more just devalues everything you have to say on the subject. Go play your game.

It's hardly my fault that people take SL too seriously, is it?

Lewis

I'm confused by your last paragraph. How could that be considered getting something for nothing when you're indirectly contributing to LL's income by renting land from other players - land that LL obtains income for? That doesn't strike me as getting something for nothing if you sell your L$ for US$. Not by a long stretch as you're renting land, meaning that somebody has to be paying LL for that land. The only difference is you're not paying LL directly, but you're still contributing to their income. You see, that's where many people are being far too black and white about basic/premium accounts.

Not that it would matter even if it was a something for nothing deal, but it's nowhere near that.

Apart from what other people have stated, that many basic accounts contribute to LL's tier revenue via rent, basic accounts that don't rent also contribute. They're like tourists to your country... they're not paying taxes, but the economy is benefiting from the money they bring in. If a basic account hits the Lindex, goes shopping, then they are helping someone pay tier. They make SL businesses more profitable, more viable, and therefore much more likely to keep contributing to LL's revenue.

Bingo, there you go again! You really are a blinkered individual, aren't you!

Diversity is obviously a phrase that, whilst you're aware it exists, holds no value or meaning for you at all.

Before this thread gets locked for provate attacks...


There is no difference in Basic and Premium accounts other than they allow for different incomes and needs. This is how it should be imo.

Premiums pay for land and a higher stipend with thier 10$/month. They pay for extra land beyond thier 512m with increased tier. All well and good.

Basics pay for thier land by renting off of Premiums. They pay for extra land with increased rental fes. All well and good.

Both accounts put money into SL by purchasing L$ (through whatever means) or by earning it through sales, etc, in-world. All well and good.

If a person doesn't want to own land, they are further to be on a Basic. This doesn't mean they pay LL less, just that they are not paying for land. With recent land prices it makes more sense to some to rent off of Premiums than to rent off of LL.

All Premiums accounts are simply Basic accounts renting off of LL. Just think of LL as THE Premium account that has no in-world overhead. (Not to say that the rent doesn't pay RW overhead)

SL needs both to thrive.
-Premiums pay for the RW costs. Internet. Hardware. LL Employees. Bannanas for Grid Monkeys.
-Both provide an influx of a breathing economy in-world.
-Premiums can rent to Basics to pay for thier tier wich goes back to the RW payment by Basics through another means.
-Both purchase L$ (as needed and as they are able) to be spent in-world. This provides RW payment to LL (or whatever 3rd party).
-Basics can partner with Premiums as only one person needs to actually pay LL for tier each month in a group project, allowing for the rest of the $ to be spent on other things like L$, or advertisments, or uploads, etc.

Summery:
Both accounts are paying for SL. Through different means, but still paying. The ones that don't are usually the ones that just leave after a time. The 50L$ stipend -may- cause a slight drain, but when you concider that those people will either leave soon, or begin purchasing/earning L$ to actually have something to spend, I don't see it as a problem. I mean really, how far does 50$ go in SL? And Premiums actually get free L$ as well if you look at the math. 512m worth 5US$ + 2000L$ per month. Unless the L$ drops lower 360-1, Premiums are still making more in "free" stipend than Basics. And will break even unless the rate drops to 400-1.

~Jessy
P.S. I'm on a Premium account, just for the record. ^.~

Ouch. You wouldn't want someone to attack your provate.

Absolutely, as I think I've already said on this thread, as a content creator, the influx of basic accounts into the game is fantastic as it expands the market. What little of my payments to LL go to subsidise basic accounts is more than worth it for the sheer numbers that have been coming in-world.

Except, of course, we aren't actually retaining the vast majority of these "new players". I too am a content provider - and entertainment provider - yet haven't seen any doubling of my sales/visitors in the doubling of the opened accounts.

Lewis

Thank you for making my point.