DOWN with the anonymous star system in Classifieds!
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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12-21-2005 10:44
From: Jauani Wu cocoanut,
i checked out your table angels. no offense but they are NOT five star items. on a rating system where five stars means it's awesome and one star means i would delete it from my inventory if i recieved it as a free item, your angels are definitely a one star.
thanks for bringing it to my attention. i went and rated it appropriately. it's still rated 3 stars which means there are quite a large number of people who think it is mediocre, and an equal number of people who like or dislike it. the people have spoken. your angels are 3 star mediocre content. just because you think you are gods gift to content doesn't mean the star system is broken. I went and rated them one star because she started this shit thread.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Laquita Maracas
She's A Brick House
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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12-21-2005 10:47
Woops
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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12-21-2005 10:49
From: Cocoanut Koala Not exactly.
First, I did notice that some of the people who have declared this a "non-issue" do not post their products there, because I went to check. Cristiano, for instance, hasn't posted a product there, at least not as far back as the results you get from putting in his name in.
The same is true, if I'm remembering correctly from yesterday, of Enabran, and of others here. Naturally, they would be inclined not to consider this much of a problem if they don't use the classifieds themselves. Nonetheless, these and others posted opinions and I discussed them.
Aimee, I noticed, hasn't posted there since July, well before any of the Classified changes occured. So she may not really care about it either, for the same reason.
But it is definitely NOT the case that "her opinion doesn't matter."
She didn't offer an opinion in the first place.
She talked and joked about her own film. I would have discussed her opinion had she given one.
coco She joked about star systems to make a point. She did not mention her film until your bitchy comment that followed her original post. I am so glad you are keeping score of who has posted items vs not posted items in the past 30 days in the classifieds forum - it is rather creepy, I must say. It does not make anyone's opinion less valid than yours. I use the forum daily to look for items, and I do also rate them - including having given two stars on occasion. Five star ratings are just as "abused" as one star ratings. I've checked out a lot of things that have 5 stars given to them, and I would not give most of it even 2 stars. It's all subjective, so the system is not "broken" so much as it is just a subjective rating system. Is it a minor annoyance? Yeah. Some big aggregious abuse problem that must be FIXED RIGHT NOW. Absolutely not. My God, get some perspective. Even in the frivilous bullshit in SL, that is about at the bottom of the list of importance of things LL needs to fix. That is my opinion, and since you are so fond of speaking for others, I will do the same - other people also think it is a stupid thing to be concerned about. I don't know what your attitude problem is lately, Cocoanut, but it's very unappealing.
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-21-2005 10:50
As someone who did post there after the star rating began, I also throw my hat into the 'doesn't matter' ring. I've never judged my products by how many nods they get or don't get in the forums, but on the amount of return customers I get, and whether I like the items and feel good about putting them out for sale. If I judged by the forum cliques, I'd have closed up shop after my first post. What a bunch of Heathers and Hoochies think about the stuff I do, which is not going to be their style anyway, doesn't mean diddly squat to me. I realize that not everyone is the same, and some rely on the opinions of others to decide for them, but I'm sure people are bright enough to realize that some people are going through and rating everything low that their buddies didn't post. If you watch the list of who's viewing a forum, and how the ratings drop, you can even see who those people are pretty easily. From: Cocoanut Koala Not exactly.
First, I did notice that some of the people who have declared this a "non-issue" do not post their products there, because I went to check. Cristiano, for instance, hasn't posted a product there, at least not as far back as the results you get from putting in his name in.
The same is true, if I'm remembering correctly from yesterday, of Enabran, and of others here. Naturally, they would be inclined not to consider this much of a problem if they don't use the classifieds themselves. Nonetheless, these and others posted opinions and I discussed them.
Aimee, I noticed, hasn't posted there since July, well before any of the Classified changes occured. So she may not really care about it either, for the same reason.
But it is definitely NOT the case that "her opinion doesn't matter."
She didn't offer an opinion in the first place.
She talked and joked about her own film. I would have discussed her opinion had she given one.
coco
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Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas
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Marcus Moreau
frand
Join date: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 602
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12-21-2005 11:34
From: SuezanneC Baskerville Why indeed such prolonged and intense debate on this matter? In an attempt to discern the cause of the length of some threads, one reflects on the fact that the classifieds aren't the only place to advertise one's products for free; advertising can take place in the discussion forums in a person's signature. This works fine if others people just keep on and on replying, as relentless as the Energizer rabbit, seemingly oblivious that the thread was only started to put the thread starter's signature ad on display. One then wonders why the intelligent and perceptive people who respond to indicate that they don't see why the isssue deserves such prolonged and vehement debate can't just let the matter they claim has had enough time in the public's eye slide into the dustbin of history by just not responding. Examine the signatures of these posters and see that each has an advertisement in their signature. Satori.  I think Torley replies 5 million times a day just to advertise his blog! MM
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Marcus Moreau
Disenfranchised island owner...
"This statement is false."
User #121869 or something close
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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12-21-2005 12:06
From: Aimee Weber My opinion. The stars system is too irrelevant to earn my attention (even if I do post in classifieds) and too irrelevant to take Linden development resources away from other more important tasks. Too true. I think the stars suck, but it's not rocking my world. The day a customer tells me something sucks, then I will worry.
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Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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12-21-2005 12:14
From: Cocoanut Koala This is not a dead horse topic simply because some here have decided so.
In fact, it has worsened over the past couple of weeks, and wasn't even ever a PROBLEM before the past couple of weeks. I don't call that dead horse.
No one who views it as a problem is stating that no rating is ever legit, and it is a red herring to argue from that position.
I am saying that any legitimacy of the reviews is wrecked by people gaming them. That, I consider a fact. And that is the point of this thread.
coco My opinion is that it's a dead horse. Your opinion is that it isn't a dead horse. Since there is no horse, there are no facts, merely opinions. If Blaze was here he could start a poll on if the horse was dead, but he has been very, very quiet the last couple of days. -------- Coco, what positive and creative thing can you do to fix a system that you feel is broken. Bitching about it is just that - empty keyboard noise. Some folks are posting their products over in the Francis Chung Fan site which allows for comments. How about a rate everyone 1 star initiative to show how broken the system is. Suggest some solutions that don't require divine intervention from the Lindens. Or, encourage everyone to email the Lindens if you really feel this is a business-critical model. Do something proactive. Show some persuasive leadership and see who you can get on board.
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Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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12-21-2005 12:28
Au contraire 
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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12-21-2005 12:29
From: Cristiano Midnight I am so glad you are keeping score of who has posted items vs not posted items in the past 30 days in the classifieds forum - it is rather creepy, I must say.
I thought that was a little... odd, myself.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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12-21-2005 13:22
From: Enabran Templar Wu brings up a good point. What if someone genuinely thought it was worth one star? From: Cocoanut Koala The exact same thing occurs in the general forums - by people casting their star votes regarding personalities, rather than issues. 
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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12-21-2005 13:24
She's partially right.I voted one star for this thread for both the issue AND the personality.
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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12-21-2005 13:40
That would be a 100% chance you were just being nasty no? 
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-21-2005 13:45
Summarizing this thread:
I'll start with my original post:
DOWN with the anonymous star system in Classifieds!
These are being gamed all to hell and back. Especially in the fashion area, I believe.
I rated an outfit five stars a few days ago, then regretted it. I don't buy clothes myself, but I thought this outfit was really cute. But then I started thinking - this person is going to have five stars now, whereas before she had none, which means if this person has enemies, they are going to come along and make those stars LOWER, which is worse than no stars at all!
Then yesterday I was looking to see how many views my Angel Ornament Set got, and I noticed someone gave it five stars. That made me feel very good! Then today I checked again, and now it has 3 stars, which meant someone came along and gave it one star just to be nasty. OK, 99.99999% chance it was just to be nasty. 99.999999% chance there were only two people rating total, and the three stars does not represent an aggregate evaluation of dozens of different viewers (much less buyers!). Because this item doesn't DO anything. It is purely decorative.
I noticed another thing with 3 stars, and looked, and it was hammocks, and I could see nothing wrong with them, either. Why should this person have three stars? I doubt it is because someone bought them and they were borked all to hell. More likely it is someone who just doesn't like the creator.
These star things are just used for people to try to ruin other people's businesses, and since no one can even make comments, there is no way to counter that! And there is no feedback on an item EXCEPT the stars. A new person might think it means something important.
How many think these stars should go? Say so here if you agree!
coco
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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12-21-2005 14:03
Thanks for that repeat of the very first post.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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12-21-2005 14:11
 Stuart Smalley for President!
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-21-2005 14:32
I should have made this a poll. But just looking back over everyone's responses, I have come up with this sort of vague consensus:
1. Stars are bad, and/or bring back comments: 9
2. Stars are okay, but they need a higher threshold of people participating before they kick into gear: 1
3. I like the system the way it is: 1
4. No one cares; shut up already: 7 [This includes one counted in (1) above]
5. Undecided: 1
coco
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-21-2005 14:32
From: Cristiano Midnight She's partially right.I voted one star for this thread for both the issue AND the personality. Cristiano, I don't see how I can even begin to be friends with you anymore. Your attitude problem is very unappealing. I've noticed lately that a lot of your posts seem to be taking other people (not just me) to task for their attitude or personality. I'm wondering - who died and made you God? Maybe YOUR attitude lately could use some adjusting. coco |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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12-21-2005 14:33
From: Lecktor Hannibal Au contraire Is that Dave Zeeman?
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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12-21-2005 14:40
Have we reached this point yet?
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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12-21-2005 14:42
From: Cocoanut Koala Your attitude problem is very unappealing. Even using the most sophisticated computer technology, with algorithms running on a distributed computing network of thousands of CPUs, I cannot begin to measure the irony in this statement.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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12-21-2005 14:42
From: Ingrid Ingersoll Have we reached this point yet? No, but Mom's got the paddle out! 
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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12-21-2005 14:48
I think we just did. 
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-21-2005 20:49
Someone here has been a very busy little bee!
I logged on with my alt to test how many people it takes to cause a thread rating to show up. Answer: Two. (Which is also the default, according to what I read on vbulletin.) I need to test it again, though, in a more obscure spot.
I noticed that somebody decided not just to rate my Angel Ornaments poorly, but went through, probably with his alt, and gave one star to every one of my items back fifteen pages! It serves a good purpose, though, as mine are the ONLY stars on those other pages, cause that was before people started even bothering with them. This way, it's easy for me to see which of all those old items are mine if I want to change the price or something. While I was there, I used my alt to bump those ratings up to two stars.
A couple of you think it is "creepy" that yesterday I checked to see how many people who consider this a non-issue actually use the classifieds themselves.
That pales in comparison to the "creepiness" of how this feature is actually abused by people, including someone who will go back 15 pages to neg-rate another person.
All this because - I spoke up that I don't like the classified rating, because I started to worry after I gave that fashion person 5 stars. Because in doing something I thought was nice, I was actually opening her up to her enemies who would drag her down, ultimately, to two stars.
For that, someone has gone back and neg-rated all my items. Guess that'll teach me my place, huh!
This is the type of people we are dealing with here. I guess me and my alt better get crackin!
Also, while perusing vbulletin, if I didn't misunderstand it, I learned that the administrators of the forums can tell who is rating threads. Also, they can go back and delete or change a thread's rating, i.e., clear it. (Not sure what purpose that would be for.).
coco
P.S. Yep, it's two.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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12-21-2005 21:00
Yo, where's the movie play at?
Uppa west side, dude!
Let's hit up Yahoo! Maps to find the dopest route
I prefer MapQuest
That's a good one too!
Google Maps is the best
True dat
DOUBLE TRUE!
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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12-21-2005 21:10
From: Cocoanut Koala Cristiano, I don't see how I can even begin to be friends with you anymore.
Your attitude problem is very unappealing. I've noticed lately that a lot of your posts seem to be taking other people (not just me) to task for their attitude or personality. I'm wondering - who died and made you God? Maybe YOUR attitude lately could use some adjusting.
coco You talking about anyone thinking someone died and made them God is beyond hilarious, Cocoanut, truly. You have spent your entire time in the forums telling all of us how horrible we are and what is wrong with everything. I don't know why you have been sniping at people lately, but you know what I don't care - your overreaction to my post is a perfect example. If you don't want to be friends with me, that is perfectly fine.
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