Sigh... want to be invisible to IMs for privacy? REMOVE your friends from your list.

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Robin, Robin, Robin... Do any of you even understand what we want when we say, "PRIVACY?"

"I'll check into this. Another option, although perhaps uncomfortable, is to remove friends from your list if they persist in bothering you."

We shouldn't have to clear our friends list to gain some privacy. God, what is with this feature request being so misunderstood!?

I dunno, but that response is almost comical.

If only it weren't so painful.

Indeed.
It's a feature of almost every online messenger.

YIM's "Always Appear Offline", or ICQ's "Invisible Mode", etc.

Well, it looked like they were considering the option, and just giving a temp one in the meantime.

If you want privacy, simply tell your friends to not stop by without asking first. I know several people who do this and they seem to have no problem with privacy.

Making people invisible on the map destroys the social aspect that is SecondLife.

I agree with Robin. If you want privacy, delete your calling cards.

Briana Dawson

We will probably have to wait until they use an "open source" solution for IM, as they said they planned.

I usually IM them first. Or... to be an ass. I'll plot them on the map, tp a bit aways, and sneak up on them. A few of them have ProxEyes (my adaptation of Argent's Evesdropper Detector) and see me coming at 64m, stalk-walking along walls and hiding in bushes, p90 at the ready.

Have I mentioned I'm bored in SL lately?

75% of the time, I don't want privacy. 75% of the time I want to be open, and I want to be friendly to as many people as possible.

Then there's the 25% of the time where I just want to knock out a script. Like last night, when I stayed up late to try & work out one module of a script challenge I've tasked myself with - only to get IM after IM after IM until I finally just logged out in frustration.

Just because I occasionally want to be able to work in peace, does not mean that I should turn into a hermit 100% of the time, and kill all my friends cards.

And, just to add insult to injury - when you delete a friends card, or decline a friend invitation - the message back to the other user isn't exactly what I would call 'friendly'. If you're a new resident, this message can make even less sense.

I couldn't disagree more, Bri. As Travis states about, you shouldn't have to choose whether you want privacy 100% of the time, or 0% of the time. You should have to tell your friends not to stop by.

For a long while, I had a message in the FlipperPA profile saying not to IM me for the first 15 minutes after seeing me log in. Many people didn't read it. Others considered themselves so important they disregarded it. The upshot was... it did NOT work. Besides, sometimes I'm fine being social. Other times, I want to log in and script or build, without going through the thirty minute friendly "Hi, how are you" conversations.

Most of the time, I'm quite fine with being social. Just not ALL the time.

I really don't like the solution given at all and share Aaron's thoughts about why the hell its so hard for LL to get a grasp on why we want better privacy controls, when AIM, YIM, ICQ and every other messaging system out there provides a perfect template for what we're asking for.

Regards,

-Flip

Busy mode is way inadiquate but may help a little. It can't be "that" hard to do an invisible button. Would come in handy at times. I have tone of cards but certainly wouldnt want to have to delete them all to get a lil privacy as recommended.

Whenever I want to be left alone... I use one of these:

Busy mode won't help the stalking issue. That to me, is automatic grounds for a friendship and card to be cancelled.

If you go into Edit>Preferences>Chat or Im can't remember which, you can change your busy reply message and put a custom message in there for when they IM you. That way it doesn't show up across the screen either as a distraction.

Forget that weak ACME. Get yourself a Prefect Portable Hole! Too lazy to walk around a wall? Slap this thing onto any surface and you'll have an instant 2m sit-teleporter! Get the Enhanced Portable Hole for adjustable depths. Bust into skyboxes and enemy strongholds with unprecidented ease!


... Damn. I really need to putting my stuff on SLEX.

I'm not saying that more options wouldn't be welcome, but it does seem that people aren't utilizing the options made available with the addition of the friends category. Prior to the friends list there were only calling cards. Am I remembering correctly? The intent was to enable one to maintain a contact list of acquaintances and customers without allowing them the access accorded to friends. Yes, I realize that there is a desire to be inaccessible to friends as well at times. I'm just getting the impression that the friends list is not being utilzed as much as it could be. I think that part of the problem is that the featuere was introduced with evreryone on your calling card list switched over to friendship status which required people to be removed. It would have been more effective to have to designate friends. The other factor is that the Offer Friendship option is on the main pie selecter whereas the Calling Card is on the secondary one.

I'm in favor of more options, but I think the feature we were given is not being utilized to its fullest. It seems that Friendship has become the standard exchange level and that many are even unaware of the alternative Calling Card option.

Yes, that explains a lot of it, Margaret! You have articulated perfectly my problems with the friendship list, and what you say about how they should have implemented it in the first place makes a lot of sense. Lots of people don't even KNOW calling cards exist! I didn't, for quite some time.

coco

[text removed via texter]

That's an utterly ridiculous statement.

My friends in RL don't have the ability to know where I am 24/7. My friends in SL shouldn't either.

P2

Rarely do I initiate an "Add Friend", usually because I know what the implications of that are. The vast majority of friends that I have on my list initiated it with me first - leaving me with the predicament of either accepting their invitation, and being tracked - or declining their invitation, which is often taken as a slap in the face.

Friendship has become the standard exchange level, as you said - probably because its the first option you see on the pie menu. I think many folks, especially new ones - see "Add Friend" as benign as offering a handshake. And declining it is like keeping your hands to your side as someone offers theirs outstretched.

I suppose that all of us here could make a pact that from now on, we'll use the calling cards instead - but that's somewhat futile when new users come in every day, unaware of this pact - and use the first option that makes sense to them: add friend.

Just as a simple change, if they dumped the crazy feedback "X has declined your friendship invitation" or "X has deleted your calling card" or "X has removed you from their friends list" - that would be HUGE. Then I wouldn't feel so bad about removing cards or declining invitations.

....are due to me trying to profile people and having a little slip of the mouse.

If I'm busy, I use the busy mode. IMs still get saved in the IM window, don't they?

Maybe the problem is not with SL, maybe the problem is with our friends.

My friends rarely bug me if I tell them I am busy.

just like in real life, if you've got stalkers, don't hang out with them, get rid of them and their cards in your contacts. If you've got a stalker and you're sane, you would ignore all messages from the stalker and possibly avoid them in social settings. Change your SL usage patterns as in when you log on, where you hang out etc. The usual stuff you do when you have a stalker in RL.

More than likely you should not keep any friends in SL that you would not keep in RL.

Having said this, invisibility would be kinda cool. Or perhaps they can beef up the Busy state to have several flavors: (each one adds to the previous level's features)
1- just a hovering busy message
2- chat stored in history
3- IMs stored in IM window and the sender notified that you're busy
4- Removal from Map, and landmark view (absolute invisibility)

I have some problems with the absolute invisibility because it could open things up to more exploits. For example, if you're absolutely invisible then can your scripts act on other players? Can you ride a vehicle? Can you give/receive inventory? Lots of problems come up.

If we're going to have invisibility, then the fully invisible person will be able to do only the following:
1-Build in their own land
2-Script in their own land

They will not be able to do the following:
ride vehicles
attend events
build in sandboxes
use weapons
no attachments, no clothes, no user avatar displayed
absolutely no interaction with other players

000 it's starting to sound like purgatory..... HOT! hehehe

Hope that helps,

Troy

Well I guess the little Message of the Day doesn't help with this problem either:

"Message of the Day:
You can track your friends (if you have their calling cards) through the Map window. Select them from the Tracking pop-up menu and you'll see them on the map. You'll also see a beacon in the world that marks their location."

Might as well change that to How to Stalk 101.

I have to agree. I have no idea why people are always compaining about privacy issues in relation to the friends list.

It makes NO SENSE at all, and if I was Robin I would roundly ignore all of this stuff.

- If they are your friends and have normal human manners, they wont interrupt you without asking.

- If they make the mistake of doing so, ask them to stop

- If they are your friends, they will stop.

- If they dont stop, they aren't your friends, and you delete them from the list.

Simple.

I'm afraid its nowhere close to that simple, for the reasons outlined by Travis above. I rarely initiate friendship, but don't want to be put into the situation of having to slap a new acquaintance in the face. Its not my style, its not good for business, and why should I have to explain, over and over, why I'm not perceived as friendly to maintain my privacy?

I've cancelled calling cards / friendships in the past, and its always led to hurt feelings and long, boring conversations about why I did it, and how it was nothing personal. I don't see why I should have to go through this 2000 times over just to get a little privacy. Look back in forum history; people used to make forum posts to General before cancelling all their calling cards to try to avert the drama that ensues from the slap in the face this causes!

I also notice many of the people who "don't understand" the need for better privacy controls (Hi Liquid!) aren't on very much, keep to a small set of friends, or typically haven't been around consistently for years and years. How about those of us who need the lists to maintain our businesses, but would also like to be able to get some personal time now and then? Profile messages are roundly ignored. Everyone knows IMs go right through busy mode. They're useless.

Just because *you* don't need these features doesn't mean they're not needed. I shouldn't have to choose between privacy and being social. I should be able to work privately when I see fit and be social when I see fit. In RL, on a Saturday night, I may be at a club or a bar to hang out with my friends. That doesn't mean I want them teleporting directly to my bedroom or my office every time I'm awake!

Regards,

-Flip

If a friend targets me on the map and comes to visit me, I get a visit from a friend not a stalker. Now if someone is on my friends list that I think is stalking me, guess what, they wont be on my friends list for long. Only a fool would leave someone on their friends list that they felt was a stalker.