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What is the Criteria Linden Labs?

Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
01-29-2006 16:36
From: Lash Xevious
Okay. First off, I personally didn't find any posts in here offensive. But it has been reported.

This thread has been reported for: Reposting (refer to link about Guidelines).

But I read this thread and don't see it as a repost. For me, there's no harm in questioning LL and their policies in a civil manner. Also, several points have been brought up in here that make it relevant. In my personal judgment, this thread should not be taken away on a too literal interpretation of the Guidelines.

So I've acknolwedged the report but don't see the need for any more action, especially disciplinary. I don't have the final say though.

Please don't be annoyed that I questioned you. The link you provided states:

"Generally we will not delete whole threads, except in special circumstances as noted below. Any editing or locking of threads will be accompanied by an explanation, to make our moderation decisions as transparent to Residents as possible."

I thought it was okay to ask since I didn't understand. Are you saying here that your judgement is not enough to overide a report? Are all things which are reported flagged for review by a LL moderator?
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hush
Lash Xevious
Gooberly
Join date: 8 May 2004
Posts: 1,348
01-29-2006 17:10
From: Margaret Mfume
I thought it was okay to ask since I didn't understand.


It's okay to ask. I've been asking the same thing in the ResMod forums.

From: someone
Are all things which are reported flagged for review by a LL moderator


All reports go to the LindenMods ... and now the ResMods.

From: someone
Are you saying here that your judgement is not enough to overide a report?


Yes, my judgment alone is not going to override the validity of a report. So if I see a report and am laid-back on it, the next person who sees it might not be.

If a LindenMod sees the report and does agree the thread has to go, we can't do anything about it. Even if we disagree.
Waz Perse
Registered User
Join date: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
01-29-2006 17:13
goodwin's law.. coming in at post #5!
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
01-29-2006 17:20
From: Waz Perse
goodwin's law.. coming in at post #5!


I noticed that too, but it's been recently demonstrated that while Nazi iconography is against the TOS, drawing Nazi analogies to Second Life forum business is NOT grounds for diciplinary action, thread closure, or post deletion. So I don't think that post was the culprit.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
01-29-2006 17:22
From: Aimee Weber
I noticed that too, but it's been recently demonstrated that while Nazi iconography is against the TOS, drawing Nazi analogies to Second Life forum business is NOT grounds for diciplinary action, thread closure, or post deletion. So I don't think that post was the culprit.


It has indeed been demonstrated.

If that policy has recently changed, though, some retroactive asswhipping might be neat to watch, too.
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Jsecure Hanks
Capitalist
Join date: 9 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,451
01-29-2006 17:38
From: Aimee Weber
I condemn the resmod program. I'm not trying to stir the pot, or cause Linden Lab trouble. Everybody knows that is not my nature


If Aimee Weber condemns the Resmod program, that's enough for me to think there must be something very seriously wrong with it indeed. That's like Duff Man protesting against the Duff Beer company (ref. Simpsons).
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
01-29-2006 17:44
From: Jsecure Hanks
If Aimee Weber condemns the Resmod program, that's enough for me to think there must be something very seriously wrong with it indeed. That's like Duff Man protesting against the Duff Beer company (ref. Simpsons).


HAHAHAHA <3

I very much appreciate the sentiment! Though I would urge you check out the discussion (for as long as the discussion threads can survive before getting cornfielded) and decide for yourself! I love everybody in Second Life exactly because you guys AREN'T group-think type folks! :D
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Waz Perse
Registered User
Join date: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
01-29-2006 17:54
From: Aimee Weber
I noticed that too, but it's been recently demonstrated that while Nazi iconography is against the TOS, drawing Nazi analogies to Second Life forum business is NOT grounds for diciplinary action, thread closure, or post deletion. So I don't think that post was the culprit.


lmao.

I was using it more along the lines that it states that a thread is basically over once reference to nazi's is made.. I was hoping for the meanor's law rebuttle ;)

so I will make the rebuttal myself:
"I call meanor's law"

there. done. .. carry on. :D
Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
01-29-2006 18:01
Well I had no doubt the thread would get reported and I would guess it probably got reported right after I posted it....although most people in these forums have a basic understanding of analogies some people see the name Hitler or Nazi and go off the deep end....those would be our tighter assed residents.

But I'm willing to bet this thread will be gone by Monday morning when a Linden reviews it and decides that I have made another personal attack ...
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Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life :D
Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
01-29-2006 18:13
Somebody - or several somebodies - is going bananas reporting posts. Makes me think it might even be someone who doesn't want the resmod system to work. I don't want it either, but that sure is a low way to go about it. Or, maybe there have ALWAYS been all these things reported all the time, and we just didn't know it.

Anyway, the forums have gone from bad to totally nuts. As far as I can tell, there is no reason why this thread should have been reported. It isn't reposting as much as it is commentary on avents that have occured since the first thread Talen posted was posted.

What I glean is that the resmods see the reports, and if they are laid-back about them, they do nothing. But should one of them see a report and feel it needs to be looked at, then and ONLY then does Jeska ever see it.

That right there is pretty interesting, wouldn't you say?

coco
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Lash Xevious
Gooberly
Join date: 8 May 2004
Posts: 1,348
01-29-2006 18:29
From: Cocoanut Cookie
What I glean is that the resmods see the reports, and if they are laid-back about them, they do nothing. But should one of them see a report and feel it needs to be looked at, then and ONLY then does Jeska ever see it.

That right there is pretty interesting, wouldn't you say?

coco



Nope, wrong glean there, Coco. The Linden Mods ALWAYS get reports on posts.

I can read a report, do nothing, but Jeska/Pathfinder/etc. will get that same report and do something if they find it valid enough.

ResMods don't pre-screen these reports and decide when to chuck em to the Lindens. We don't have any power but to move threads into Review and the Lindens can do that themselves.
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
01-29-2006 18:33
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what a righteous indignation going at full speed sounds like when it hits a brick wall.

On a serious note, there has been some *very* alarming inconsistency since this program began. If tthis thread is gone in the morning, it will, sadly, at this point *be* consistant.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
01-29-2006 18:38
From: Reitsuki Kojima
On a serious note, there has been some *very* alarming inconsistency since this program began. If tthis thread is gone in the morning, it will, sadly, at this point *be* consistant.


HA! Funny to think of administrative inconsistency serving to give us a welcome break from excessively heavy-handed moderation. :D
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
01-29-2006 18:55
From: Lash Xevious
Nope, wrong glean there, Coco. The Linden Mods ALWAYS get reports on posts.

I can read a report, do nothing, but Jeska/Pathfinder/etc. will get that same report and do something if they find it valid enough.

ResMods don't pre-screen these reports and decide when to chuck em to the Lindens. We don't have any power but to move threads into Review and the Lindens can do that themselves.

OK, that's good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.

coco
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
01-29-2006 18:57
From: Reitsuki Kojima
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what a righteous indignation going at full speed sounds like when it hits a brick wall.

On a serious note, there has been some *very* alarming inconsistency since this program began. If tthis thread is gone in the morning, it will, sadly, at this point *be* consistant.

And I would like to report Reitsuki for that first paragraph! Is it necessary to make such a nasty comment?

Would you rather I just had thought that to myself and never asked, or gotten it cleared up?

No - cause then you wouldn't be able to make such a nasty comment, would you?

coco

And your post is what nastiness and condescending superiority sound like when they get a chance to rear their ugly heads.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
01-29-2006 19:00
From: Cocoanut Cookie
And I would like to report Reitsuki for that first paragraph! Is it necessary to make such a nasty comment?

Would you rather I just had thought that to myself and never asked, or gotten it cleared up?

No - cause then you wouldn't be able to make such a nasty comment, would you?

coco

And your post is what nastiness and condescending superiority sound like when they get a chance to rear their ugly heads.


Go' head if you want, 's your right.

As I've repeatedly said before, It's got nothing to do with your opinions. You're free to have them. It's got everything in the world to do with how you express them.

You did *not* need to sound all high and accusetory like you had uncovered some sinster plot without any facts to back it up. That's just fear-mongering, and it doesn't help anything right now... we're all wound up enough as it is over the mistakes and problems here without adding to it with stuff like that.

That's what I object to, not you having reservations about the ResMod program... I think we all do, myself not excluded.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
01-29-2006 19:05
From: Talen Morgan
My first post back yesterday was asking what had happened to the forums and why the resmod thing was set up so poorly. For my effort my thread was sent in to review because some person in these forums abuse reported it.

The thread I have found was Nuked by LL and I was sent a warning letter stating that I made a personal attack within that thread which was clearly a lie on Linden Labs behalf. Any resmod who saw that thread last night can vouch for the fact that no personal attack was made by myself or anyone else who contributed to that thread.

Linden labs has once again thrown together a poorly concieved plan withought giving the residents any information or criteria based on what direction the forums are taking.....Nice backbone LL.

As for my warning I beliecve I am owed an apology due to the fact that I made no personal attacks....I have the balls to admit when I am wrong.....Wonder if anyone at Linden Labs does?
If you could see some of the posts made by a couple of the resmods in the past, you would be as confused as I am about what standards, if any, are used to issue warnings about posts as well as for resmod selection.

I am definitely going to compile a list of soem of these nasty nasty posts that were apparently given a "pass" by whatever Linden was reviewing forum ARs at the time. Sone are so insulting and crass you would never ever believe they were overlooked when reported.
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
01-29-2006 19:09
From: Lash Xevious
Nope, wrong glean there, Coco. The Linden Mods ALWAYS get reports on posts.

I can read a report, do nothing, but Jeska/Pathfinder/etc. will get that same report and do something if they find it valid enough.

ResMods don't pre-screen these reports and decide when to chuck em to the Lindens. We don't have any power but to move threads into Review and the Lindens can do that themselves.

Ok, so what you mean is, a laid-back mod won't do anything, but one who thought it was pretty bad might sequester the thread?

coco
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
01-29-2006 19:09
From: katykiwi Moonflower
If you could see some of the posts made by a couple of the resmods in the past, you would be as confused as I am about what standards, if any, are used to issue warnings about posts as well as for resmod selection.

I am definitely going to compile a list of soem of these nasty nasty posts that were apparently given a "pass" by whatever Linden was reviewing forum ARs at the time. Sone are so insulting and crass you would never ever believe they were overlooked when reported.


The thing is, though, nice takes a back seat to professional in customer service. A lot of the best customer service types I've ever known back when I was a guide in Everquest were actually pretty nasty people if you were just talking to them, but somehow managed to put it aside when they were "on the job".

I'm not saying it's a glowing reccomendation, but it doesn't automaticly mean they can't do the job. Part of the reason why I never agreed with the "no warnings on record" thing.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
01-29-2006 19:13
From: Cocoanut Cookie
Ok, so what you mean is, a laid-back mod won't do anything, but one who thought it was pretty bad might sequester the thread?

coco


Basicly that seems to be the extent of their powers. At worst, the only power they directly have is to make a thread blink away for a couple days.

That said, if LL tries to play the "we stick together" card, which I have a feeling they will try to *some* extent, just because anything else is bad publicity, they will be somewhat reluctant to over-rule the initial movement.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
01-29-2006 19:16
From: Reitsuki Kojima
Go' head if you want, 's your right.

As I've repeatedly said before, It's got nothing to do with your opinions. You're free to have them. It's got everything in the world to do with how you express them.

You did *not* need to sound all high and accusetory like you had uncovered some sinster plot without any facts to back it up. That's just fear-mongering, and it doesn't help anything right now... we're all wound up enough as it is over the mistakes and problems here without adding to it with stuff like that.

That's what I object to, not you having reservations about the ResMod program... I think we all do, myself not excluded.

Well you know what, Reitsuki? I don't like you either. Not one little bit. Consider yourself lucky that I don't indulge in little nasty commentary when you post.

coco
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
01-29-2006 19:16
From: Reitsuki Kojima
The thing is, though, nice takes a back seat to professional in customer service. A lot of the best customer service types I've ever known back when I was a guide in Everquest were actually pretty nasty people if you were just talking to them, but somehow managed to put it aside when they were "on the job".

I'm not saying it's a glowing reccomendation, but it doesn't automaticly mean they can't do the job. Part of the reason why I never agreed with the "no warnings on record" thing.


I wouldn't disagree with this, but a ResMod's past forum behavior is directly related to this position's requirements.
From: Jeska Linden
Resident Moderators Selection Criteria:
- Must be both an Second Life Resident and forum participant for at least 3 months
- Write thoughtful, constructive posts
- Have clean Linden Rapsheet (no warnings/suspensions)
- Be peacemakers and know how to use humor to diffuse not attack
- Be warm and welcoming to fellow Residents from all walks of Second Life
- Clear from past participation that they value positive discussion and will contribute to the overall tone of the Second Life Forums


In the case of the first bunch of requirements it's certainly possible that a user with a dismal forum history could STILL do the job while on duty, but how on earth would Jeska know this if all she has to go by are the user's forum behavior?

However the last one is directly related to a user's forum history.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
01-29-2006 19:23
From: Cocoanut Cookie
Well you know what, Reitsuki? I don't like you either. Not one little bit. Consider yourself lucky that I don't indulge in little nasty commentary when you post.

coco


"Don't like me either"?

Huh

That implies I don't like you.

To be honest, Coco, you don't bother me. I don't agree with a lot of what you say for various reasons, but I don't recall ever saying I don't like you. You stick up for your friends, which is an admirable trait, and you seem mostly helpful and creative. Those are admirable traits.

I have people in SL I dislike. Some of them even post to this forum. But it's a very short list, and you're nowhere near on it.

Neh.

To be honest, the day the comments I get on a forum on teh intarwebs bothers me is the day I log myself out and go read a book. Go ahead and say what you want, it doesn't bother me. I believe if you go back and read my comments, you'll find I've always told you you have every right to say whatever you want, and I'm a man who stands by what he says.
_____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
01-29-2006 19:25
From: Aimee Weber
I wouldn't disagree with this, but a ResMod's past forum behavior is directly related to this position's requirements.


In the case of the first bunch of requirements it's certainly possible that a user with a dismal forum history could STILL do the job while on duty, but how on earth would Jeska know this if all she has to go by are the user's forum behavior?

However the last one is directly related to a user's forum history.


Well insomuch as following the guidelines LL layed down, your absolutly right, they don't mesh.

Never said I was much of a fan of the guidelines. I think LL made "touchy feely" more important than "experience" or "willing to do what needs be done". I understand that the resmods were mostly intended (Reading between the lines here) to be PR-foils to break the angry tides against, but I don't really approve of halfway measures in the best of times.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
01-29-2006 19:53
There are a lot of great concerns being discussed here, and I'm hoping they can all be taken as vaild and thought provoking. Please be carefull not to personally attack others, as you risk getting an entire discussion closed that would otherwise be valid to the entire community.
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