Why do we have to buy something to get a credit account verified?

It is possible to do a "verify account" transaction for both Visa and Mastercard. We do this at my workplace sometimes. No money changes hands.

Should LL do this to allow someone to change from Payment Info on File to Payment Info Used without spending money?

How bout just using verified (is it important to know how, although I agree with Suezanne. No money needs to exchange hands). Unverified can just be implied.
and BTW my alt is listed as "Resident, Payment Info on File" and I although it is old enough to have cc info on file, I have never bought L$ on that account.

As a 2004, didn't you pay $10 for signing up?

Edit: Oh your alt...

if you had to sign up with CC info with your alt, then the account is listed as type 2 (credit card on file but not used) Type 3 means you have made a transaction and it says "payment info used" or something

duh, yes I did pay the basic fee for my alt when I signed up! THAT definitely explains it.

But then they'd charge a fee to do that, and it would probably be more than what you would have spent buying a few Lindens.

Did you know that you get charged a $10 fee to downgrade to basic? I didn't, until tonight.

coco

Is there anything that you can pay LL for and get a refund?

Not that I know of.

coco

I can't understand why they thought they needed three levels or even needed to state whether someone has paid them money or not.

One little notation in the files of those who have given some form of identification...
"verified" .. was really all that could ever be needed.

In fact, it would have been even simpler to go the other direction. State upon signup that you are signing up for a trial account and in order to upgrade when you are ready, you will need to give some form of identification. Then in every new account's profile have it state somewhere "trial account" and this statement is automatically removed any time the account holder chooses to go back and give identification, any payment is optional.

This way without any actual one on one explanation, anyone with half a brain can see when they enter a game that the reason they may have more limited access is that they are on a trial account. Anyone who commonly plays online games understands this concept.

The method chosen instead by LL is one that not only will require someone to come along and explain it to a new player, but will feel and sound very much like the discrimination that it is.

Allana, Its nothing more then social pressure to get "free accounts" to either buy linden or to become premium. After all, what reasonable adult wouldn't want to be considered legitimate especially when the paniced masses are banning folks over payment info.



In this case, "verified" to many people would read as "over 18" and this would not be true. Having payment information on file and even used, only verifies that there is a source of legimate funds. It doesn't guarentee the person is over 18. THAT is the absurdity of all of this.



I agree with you fully! This is nothing more then a bait and switch scam on LL's part without actually violating the intent of the rule. They are playing on people's paranoia to limit the world from those that do not have payment info on file. LL can say that the world is free and limitless while at the same time relying on their paying patrons to set up zones against non payment verified accounts to push them to pull out the credit card.

Passive agressive martketing at its best.

It stinks, it is violating the privacy of people by stating on their public profiles whether or not they have spent money on LL, AND it has finally legitamized the "tourist" comment made in this forum not that many months ago.

Robin's own words in her blog has now equated "commitment" to SL with showing them the money. Sounds like what "one business girl" said when she started the original metaverse justice watch.

my 02 cents aimed at whatever marketing genius came up with this one.

Rose,

In no way can it be described as a scam. SL is wholly owned by LL, they owe you nothing and you're lucky to be able to sign up so easily and play for free if you wish. Of course it's in their interests to push people to paying but they do give you a choice.

As for the rest of your post, you are putting words and thoughts in other peoples minds and mouths. I'm not paranoid, panicing, assuming verified implies over 18 or any of the things you suggest and have no reason to believe anyone else is - the forums are hardly full of people thinking this way, more so, full of people displaying their own insecurities, inferiority complexes and desire to create issues out of nothing.

Sure it's all a little clumsy on LLs part, but the scaremongering and outrageous claims of privacy invasion, scamming and discrimination on a par with Nazi Germany or South Africa are ridiculous.

Where did I say THAT?

And where did you assume I have played for free?

As for the rest. That is how I see it. It is not how you see it that's fine. You're right, as I stated, LL is offering free and clear access. They are NOT offering that their residents follow suit. They are promising tools to allow residents the auto ban of any individual that does not have "payment on file." You tell me that isn't "pushing" folks to show a credit card so they aren't banned from areas of the grid. Its just using peer pressure to force free accounts to turn while still maintaining the "free world" idea. its no different then the original plan to offer land so you can build. That worked until the rent concept became a reality. Now you don't have to have tier to have enough land to build on.

So what is the next push? Allow the residents to force the issue by restricting their property based on payment not actually on behavior.

But remember, teens were on the grid with paid accounts before, they will continue to be on the grid even more so now. One of the very first members of the teen grid was a young man that no one came close to suspecting was a teen. They found out when he bought a private sim and linden labs called the house to verify the purchase.

Keep thinking this is keeping the under 18 griefers away to display payment info.

The link to machine is now in place. People using alts to grief can now be linked to their primary account on LL's side. Banning one griefing account now kills ALL accounts on that machine. That is all that was needed. The rest is just a marketing ploy.

I understand that there may have been different ways to solve the identification problems, and no solution will ever be perfect, but I for one would like to APPLAUD LL for quickly bringing in a solution for the sign up problems. This has gone a long way to addressing many of the complaints.

Actually, I don't feel like this is going any where near addressing the complaints. Griefers will still be able to just waltz right back in and if the CC on the type two isn't verified in some way... If you are gonna block one, block both, because it didn't take me long to see the easy abuse of a type two and it sure won't take griefers long either. IF they ever put the tools in place to block them.

No. In this case "Verified" means "We have some way of actually kicking this person out and having even a ghost of a chance of KEEPING them out, if they misbehave". Tracking hardware info doesn't stop the same kid from logging on and creating a new account at a friend's house, or at the library, or... anywhere you care to name! Requiring a credit card or SOME tangible ID on file is something that can be locked out regardless of WHAT computer they try to use.

Personally, I wish they would move to allowing other forms of identification, and just stating "trial account" or "Verified ID". I mean, if I sent Linden Labs a photocopy of my driver's license or passport, they could file that information, keep it just as confidentially as they do billing information, and could assign me a unique ID number, not directly associated with the proof that I sent in, that I could use to create additional linked accounts. That would be just as good, in my book.

What I want to know, as a participant in SL, is that the account I am dealing with has offered some form of accountability. That if they misbehave, there is some way they can actually be held accountable for their actions. A trial account that requires no real information whatsoever to create, and that someone can create unlimited numbers of, does not show any accountability at all. It's 'disposable', like a cheap pistol used in a crime and discarded after one mugging. And that is just how the griefers and under age users are treating them.

And a account title keeps them from doing so? How? Griefers aren't going to give the info in the first place. I can't believe people don't see this.

Listen folks - with throw away accounts, the ONLY way to TRY (I have several computers to choose from myself, effectively changing my hash) block griefers is through a hardware hash.

This crap of verified payment status in no way discourages a determined griefer. All the three tiered class structure does is keep honest people honest, and tries to shame non-paying residents into paying. Griefers don't care about titles. Griefers have griefer friends. Griefers have access to lots of computers. Griefers have forums 70,000 strong, with all sorts of info on how to bypass retarded systems like the classist one LL is adopting. It's worthless, and is naught but a way to try and get more paying accounts - "Look at my shiny badge, I am not a griefer!" Yeah, well, you weren't one before you got the badge either!

Oh noes, griefers won't have the badges! Gah. All this does is hurt legit people who haven't done a transaction.

Oh yeah, "well all you have to do is to buy a few L$!" Yes, so much for "opening up SL to the world and making it free like the web!", right? We all have to enter some financial info to be validated to be netizens on the web right? Ohhh... wait...

Plastic Duck was a "payment on file and used" account at one time.

ALL of W-hat were "payment on file and used" accounts at one time. Many were under 18.

This does nothing but annoy and certainly won't do anything more then further divide a divided population.

WRST Premiums vs Lifetimes: "omgz ur FIC!!"

WRST Premiums vs Basics: "ur a TOURIST! u have no STAKE in LL like we do!"

WRST to CC on file? Welcome to "ur UNVERIFIED, ur BANNED"

I think I liked it better when we were all upset over whether or not Suicide Girls should have their own last name.

FYI "Verified" means the Credit card is real and legit, that's all. It means that there is no CC fraud in effect. A successful transaction says a lot about the nature of the account.

in think its perfectly legit to have the right to judge if someone is

A: a freeloader
B: a griefer:
C: simply a newbie that try sl
D: someone involved in sl
E: other

WOW!

*blink*

I think you're missing the point a little Nolan, but you're not alone on the board.

What those of us involved with adult communities are wanting is a way to protect ourselves from encroachment by underage members. Payment verification is only part of the solution and while it's not perfect, it's not the whole answer either. Yet it remains a tool we must use if we are to show that we are exercising due diligence in protecting minors.

Of course, we will continue to watch for people acting like kids or admitting they are underage, and they will also be banned and AR'd as "suspect underage". But we have to start somewhere. Payment verification is the best & only tool available to us and the same tool most adult sites around the internet are using to protect themselves.

Griefers come in many flavors and many are actually long-time residents of SL. Many are also over the age of 18. So griefing must be treated as a separate behavioral issue -- we cannot exclude someone from a club because their born-date indicates they might grief us. We must wait to observe the behavior first. That's why CC verification has nothing whatsoever to do with griefing.


I like that idea Ceera. We really don't need any more information than that in order to cover our asses. And for those folks in Europe, Australia, etc., who do not have CCs or do not wish to use them, your suggestion would be a great solution for them to attain verified status.

SL is to be the 3d web.

Philip states this like mantra.

They so much so feel that way (supposedly), that they have decided to unrestrict account sign ups.

How do you protect yourself from minors on the web?

YOU do it. WE do it. Common sense, instinct, and so forth.

You don't have some overarching set of tags in place to tell you whether or not they spent money on the web somewhere. Even that wouldn't screen them all out. Many companies will give teens 13+ a credit card.

This looks like a premium account drive to me, and unfortunately, some residents will use it as reasoning to discriminate. We already have people stating they will ban all non-verified people, suggesting that Townhalls should be limited to verified only, and so forth.

What is the minimum amount of L$ you can buy through Lindex?

I do see some difference between submitting a card and charging it. If a kid steals dad's credit card and uses it to sign up, but doesn't charge anything, he might get away with it. If he charges something, though, dad's gonna see "Linden Labs" on his credit card statement, and may well investigate. I would.

I agree that it's an imperfect system, but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing. I like the earlier poster's idea of a database of driver's licenses or passports or whatnot, but of course that raises all sorts of issues. I doubt LL will pioneer the way on that, but someone else might. There has been talk of a national ID card for years, and some interest in Congress in moving forward on it.

You said it. People complaining in other threads about a simple tag being an invasion of privacy would suddenly give LL a lot more information with a passport or driver's license copy.

Belgium has ID cards. But while I'm happy registering my account with my credit card, I don't really want LL to have access to all the info on my ID card, nor from my passport.

And in UK, the closest they currently have to an ID card is for the person wanting to prove his/her identity to bring 3 recent bills. LOL! I can see LL storing recent electrivity bills and whatnot as proof of ID.

I don't care whether SL is supposed to become the Web 3D or not. And if it is, nobody said it had to be an exact replica of the Web. It can be an evolution.

Personally, I agree with what Cindy and Ricky said about the tags being a tool to help define whether you are dealing with someone is likely to be underage and to protect the providers of mature content.

Griefing is a different issue, where anti griefing enforcement is/will be given teeth by the collection of machine info (the hardware hash Nolan also mentioned), not by the verification tag.

So you have 2 bits of data used for different purposes.

And like Ricky said, the reason there needs to be a transaction for an account to be verified is twofold: because it proves the CC is valid and because, if the transaction was made without the card holder's consent, it would be brought to his/her attention.

It's all very logical, really.

Wendel

I bought L$500 to upgrade my alt. Don't know if I could have done less.