Linden Competition

I posted the below to this thread where the topic of Linden competition arose during discussion about the Infohubs.


Please feel free to continue this important discussion here.

Jeska, are you actively looking to stir drama on the forums today I should report you for incitement!

Well. I'd like to see things like llTeleportAgent and some better Abuse Reporting implementations taken.

I think the critical bit at this juncture is for LL to become cash flow positive.

Once that is attained, then the issue of who is competing against what can be better discussed.

In otherwords, if SecondLife doesn't make money, it will not exist, and this is very much a moot point.

One factor that creators should take into consideration is if their product is being used as a way of correcting a defecit in the SL system itself. Again, we could use GOM as an example of that. GOM thrived specifically because there was no way to purchase currency from other residents built into the SL client, which makes it much easier than using a third-party site. Now, I certainly don't know the specifics behind the GOM business plan, but in their shoes, if I had come up with the idea to create a currency-trading site, I would have also tried to come up with some other business plans to implement had the inevitable happened - LL creating their own marketplace for currency trade.

Another user-created feature that this could happen with are HUDs. Essentially, a HUD is a user-created UI menu. Depending on the purpose of your HUD design, there's every possibility that LL could at some point add that same functionality to the existing SL UI, putting you out of business. Shopping websites are another potential field that LL would be remiss not to have their eye on in the future.

The key is flexibility and the willingness to change. LL will never be able to be all things to all people. There will always be an area that the "official" alternatives can't handle. No business has ever been able to thrive for long by never changing their product or service, especially in the face of outside competition.

I'm disapointed this thread isn't about varius dares and competitions between the employees at Linden Lab

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Phillip mud wrestling...

Yeah. I'd like to see Bub competing with Ben for "who can eat the most cake" or something. That'd be friggin sweet.

The mainland steadily drains any hope of this. LL will be profitable when they cap the existing LL estates; begin relying on resident managers to create and manage new land masses; and start concentrating on being the host, rather than the parent.

No clue what you are trying to do by encouraging this discussion Jesk.

But check this out. See when philly mentioned that plum little paragraph (below) He was basically dissing on the talents of his paying customers: I seem to recall writing My OWN Blog Entry expressing my disgust at how things in this area are handled.

"From a competitive perspective, we must also assume that at some point we will have other companies trying to do what Second Life has done, and choices we make in feature implementation might put us at competitive risk - so for example if we decide against implementing the currency exchange capability which triggered this debate, another company might build a more efficient mechanism and therefore outcompete us."

He pretty much summed it up nicely, and I'm wondering why this is being dragged out all over again. Basically if you come up with a super keen idea and impliment it with professionalism and style - philly will bogart on it - cuz he thinks he can do it better.

Sure maybe he can - but what happened to Your World - YOUR Imagination? I've been askin for yall to change that slap happy blunt smoke induced slogan for yonks.

Make a new one that fits better for what's really going on, and you really have in mind for this experiment, Linden LAB.

Oh wait I'm sorry - yall have NO CLUE do ya? The advent of something like GOM took yall by surprise didn't it? Why is it that the stuff people do in here seems so amazing to you?

I can picture philly slapping his forehead and going (damn! I shoulda thought of that!)

Lets see now. Shall I go into how yall bogarted off of Cris' Snapz? You didn't even ASK him permission. I told you there would come a day when you pushed even your most ardent Fans In Charge too far - and take a look around you - my predictions have come true.

Fucking HELL yall made me go back on my rule for not posting up in this section. But shit!
WTF???

I think his analysis was that he will bogart on it because he has to do it better.

What about LL opening a knock-off of SLEX, and drumming support for it's own 'service' by crippling grid<->web comms to kill off the competition?

I'm going to try and find an opinion on this subject. I'll shall return one day...

OK, now for a serious answer

Philip is basically coming from the view point that, in order to succeed when or if competition arrives, Linden Lab potentially needs to co-op facilities and ideas run by resident developers in order to stay viable. I think Surina's comment on his blog, highlighted an extremely viable alternative to that - the basic thrust of which is that, if you see that a resident or residents have developed something that you feel is of utter importance to do directly, stop and think about whether you should do that or whether you should embrace it by making the facilities to support it better.

The greatest assets that Linden Labs has are the users. There is so much man-power here that would and, in some cases, does offer facilities that people require, enjoy and add to the overall package that is Second Life, but that Linden Lab do not. GOM was just one example of that. If Linden Labs is conscious of potential competition in the future then what they should be doing is helping to engage that man-power in extending the system, as it will give them a feature coverage, and depth of support, that they on their own cannot.

Unfortunately what happens with situations such as that which happened with GOM is that not only did Linden Lab co-opt a resident business but they also put off others from developing their plans for fear of the same happening. That isn't a positive impression to paint, that isn't going to garner the support the platform needs.

I remember quite a while ago Philip spoke of a book called "The Wisdom Of Crowds" and how much it was shaping his decisions. It's a book I have since read and, I think, has great bearing on this subject. Have belief in your developer crowds to extend and maintain a much more complete whole than Linden Lab themselves can manage alone. But, to do that, you have to make a conscious decision that you trust the crowd to add the support that they want to see and support them in that, not co-opt them.

Of course, nothing is completely black and white although a mind change from developing direct to giving the developers greater access via. APIs, for instance, would I think help protect Linden Lab from the competition and foster Second Life as a serious development platform. If there isn't positive strength against a competitor in that, then I do not know where else Linden Labs could find it.

I think what they generally do is move communication bugs to low priority.. Don't have to cripple anything.

I'm personally of the opinion that with anything dealing in real money (that is, USD, not the Linden monopoly money), LLab should be the guys running it, or at least being the secure middleman for it.

Third party currency exchangers are unverifiable and inherantly untrustworthy; not because they are run by shady dudes with cigars, but because it's another third party that you don't know. For all you know they could be swiping your credit information or your account information and you'd have no recourse.

And consider the way the online webshops work.

To get something running on SLEX, you must:

1) get a box.
1.5) Wait for it to boot.
2) put things in box. Name them right.
2.5) Wait.
3) Go to website, hope it updates from box.
4) Wait.
5) Input data manually on webforms. Upload your own pictures.
6) Repeat 50 times for 50 items.

I keep trying to do the whole web commerce thing, but it's a kludgy mess. Why can't I just click something that's for sale in-world, select "publish on web", pay a small percentage fee in $L (money sink), and have it automatically get input into the Linden-run "items for sale" database?

Also, why are we still running animation overriders? Surely we could get an update to that whole system and it would benefit us all, eh?

Some things really do need to be co-opted, from a sheer user-friendly perspective.

Until I can buy outright the land on an island, the sim owner be unable to change the land or kick me off without a full refund plus restitution..I will be on the mainland. LL mgiht be abole to kick me off, but at least I can OWN land there.

Is that what you would like, Lordfly?

I like it the way it is. It is FUN the way it is. And no "small percentage fee" from me is required, unless I sell the object.

Untrustworthy? Since when do I not trust SLExchange, SLBoutique, and Gigas? Since never, that's since when.

LL don't need to be the guys running it, and I sure as heck don't need them to be the "secure middleman" in it, taking their cut out of it and costing me more.

Those shopping sites are by far one of the most charming things about this whole game, and something I've loved since I began SL. Somehow I'm just not nearly as charmed by the Lindens taking it over.

Probably has something to do with all that talk about, "Your World, Your Imagination." I really do love what other residents do. I love to use their things, and I'm proud of what the other residents can do.

If I wanted LL to run it all, I could go play TSO or something.

You say you keep trying to do the whole commercial thing, but it's a kludgy mess?

Well - amazingly, incredibly - technologically inept me has no difficulty doing it at all. And any small difficulties I've encountered have been handled by the people running the sites, swiftly, and, I must say, patiently, since like as not it was something obvious I misunderstood or got mixed up about, like asking why one site didn't pay me for something I had actually sold on the other!

Maybe you don't want to be bothered, and would rather pay someone to take the work out of it for you. Well, hire someone, then. Don't make me have to pay the Lindens to do something that I do just fine without them.

I don't really play SL so I can go, "Woah, aren't those Lindens clever," all the time. Or give them extra money. I play it because I'm charmed by what the other residents do.

The more the Lindens take those things away so they can do them themselves (i.e., make the money off them themselves), the less pleased I am with SL. And every time they do that, some of the fun dissolves.

coco

And here's another thing. (Now that I've backed up and read the whole thread.)

Moopf says:

"Unfortunately what happens with situations such as that which happened with GOM is that not only did Linden Lab co-opt a resident business but they also put off others from developing their plans for fear of the same happening."

That is true, and thus we get even less variety.

Now consider the GOM'ing of the shopping sites. Not only might that put them out of business, it would also put off anyone thinking of creating an alternative (and building up that trust Lordfly dismisses through the same, hard, slow building up of trust that ANY business requires). And eventually we have just the one - the Lindens'.

How do monopolies ever benefit a society? How does the government always running everything ever make things better? How great is it to have a choice of one lousy cable company in your area? The more businesses LL co-opts, the fewer real choices we have, and the less motivation we have to create anything.

Lack of variety = boring.

coco

Deny it all you want Linden Lab, but LL has co-opted my business.

What part of taking a resident run business and turning it over to the Governor do you not understand?

Another option that LL has with regards to competing with its residents is similar to the option they have when breaking content: over communicate and give us significant lead time (3 months is a good number).

If they're going to do something similar to SLExchange, explain that clearly. If they are planning on removing public land .. explain that clearly and give us lead time.

I am sure it was a bit of a rude shock for people like Weedy to wake up one day and suddenly find something they spent a lot of time working on suddenly gone.

What Philip says is just a bunch of double speak, to change his position on competition.

These days LL is saying whatever it thinks people need to hear, whether it's true or not.

Since 1.9, The Linden$ is taking a dive, promises are broken (ie Havok2) and co-option is the order of the day.

Philip is not even around these days, and the bean counters have been running the show for a while now.

Co-opting a business and dismissing the issue by calling it a "feature" is such hogwash.

It's downright despicable.

Starting to sound like Dubya around here.

You left out the part that says "as long as LL continues to manage the mainland as a loss leading corporate estate rather than farm the costly responsibility out to a willing land baron..Here is an idea that I thought might help solve the problem of being arbitrarily kicked off of rental property.


LL have always done this; it's nothing new (see sig).


I'm keenly interested to read Jeska's answer to the question of why she started this convo in the first place.

Sorry Jonas, that wasn't fair of me. I should've explained that I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY SOUNDING LIKE THE LINDEN'S SHOULD CLOSE THE EXISTING MAINLAND CONTINENTS111ONEONE

*edited blue streak*Why do people always fucking do this to me. I very simply stated that if LL want to reach profitability, one thing they will have to do is stop adding sims to their corporate estate, commonly referred to as the mainland, and let the world grow by renting regional servers to private estate managers.

You and I both will be able to stay on the mainland "owning" our land for time immemorial. I would never ever in a million zillion years suggest that you be denied that God given right.