I wasn't quoting the article. I was quoting Coco.
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will SL succeed? |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 05:52
Yes, and Coco got it wrong too. |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 06:01
I'm reserving my judgement until we see some competition to SL. As long as SL has a monopoly it'll succeed. I think there are so many things a competitor could possibly do better, that SL can't do without a major shift in direction, I lean toward thinking SL will not succeed in the long term, by that I mean years from now. SL has a place in history I believe, the same way Mosaic and Netscape do. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-08-2006 06:43
In addition, it took near-complete loss market share, changing ownership at least twice, and a complete bottom-up rewrite to do it. Oh. Not to mention it had to become (somewhat) open source. |
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Laukosargas Svarog
Angel ?
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,304
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03-08-2006 06:45
SL hardly has a monopoly and already has competition: There and Active Worlds (since 1995 and is better than SL in some respects). Wikipedia also lists The Sims Online (TSO) and Croquet project but TSO is just another MMORPG (while SL is not, per se) and Croquet has a ways to go yet. Not really. I'm afraid I disagree with you. Nothing hosts user content to the extent of SL and to be a true competitor with SL the very least requirement would be to support OS other than windows. SL's most important advantage over it's peers is it's cross platform support. Croquet isn't even approaching SL as it was in beta. If SL remains the only true cross platform usable VW it will succeed on it's own terms. Tying a VW to windows is to create a closed platform of no use whatsoever to admittedly small but signicant user base. Numbers alone do not a better world make although successful in monetry terms they are of no use to people who don't use a Microsoft OS. _____________________
Geometry is music frozen...
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-08-2006 06:46
I once would have scoffed at the very idea of a Macintosh with an Intel chip. |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 06:48
Not really. I'm afraid I disagree with you. Nothing hosts user content to the extent of SL and to be a true competitor with SL the very least requirement would be to support OS other than windows. SL's most important advantage over it's peers is it's cross platform support. |
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Laukosargas Svarog
Angel ?
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,304
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03-08-2006 07:08
Huh? AW, at least (dunno about the other apps) hosts FAR more user content than SL does (mostly because AW's been around longer than SL by at least 7 years). Cross-platform support isn't THAT much of an advantage since most of the world uses Windows, not Macs or Linux. To compare AW and SL is a bit of joke is it not ? OK it's a while since I saw AW but impressed I was not. No way did it make me feel I should should change my preferred OS in order to participate  So it has a lot of people online, which makes it successful atm, but in the long term surely you'd agree AW is not going anywhere unless it's significantly revamped ?_____________________
Geometry is music frozen...
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 07:17
To compare AW and SL is a bit of joke is it not ? OK it's a while since I saw AW but impressed I was not.
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 07:20
No way did it make me feel I should should change my preferred OS in order to participate So it has a lot of people online, which makes it successful atm, but in the long term surely you'd agree AW is not going anywhere unless it's significantly revamped ? |
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-08-2006 07:59
I tried Active Worlds earlier today. I'm pretty impressed. On first entering the place, it's crap. But I persevered and found some really lovely worlds. I also checked the prices for hosting your own world and it's quite cheap, especially when you consider most people's ISP's provide them with webspace that they probably don't use. So they could store their active world's content in their webspace. The actual server code can be run from your own PC.
But what impresses me the most is that it supports meshes. SL is great if you want to make a home and fill it with tables and washing machines. but if you want to produce arty farty stuff in Second Life, then you're always going to be asking too much of it. I've been forcing it to make figures and animals for 2 years. I think it hates me now.  If anybody thinks that meshes can't work in a streaming 3D environment. Go check out Active Worlds. |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 08:05
If anybody thinks that meshes can't work in a streaming 3D environment. Go check out Active Worlds. |
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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03-08-2006 08:29
I tried Active Worlds earlier today. I'm pretty impressed. On first entering the place, it's crap. But I persevered and found some really lovely worlds. I also checked the prices for hosting your own world and it's quite cheap, especially when you consider most people's ISP's provide them with webspace that they probably don't use. So they could store their active world's content in their webspace. The actual server code can be run from your own PC. But what impresses me the most is that it supports meshes. SL is great if you want to make a home and fill it with tables and washing machines. but if you want to produce arty farty stuff in Second Life, then you're always going to be asking too much of it. I've been forcing it to make figures and animals for 2 years. I think it hates me now. If anybody thinks that meshes can't work in a streaming 3D environment. Go check out Active Worlds. Horrible and virtually impossible it may have been for you, but damn if you didn't meet the challenge and beat the odds and make the most totally fantastic humans, animals, etc., ever! coco P.S. And think of this - they're different in a way they wouldn't have been had you used meshes, right? And so they are artistic in a way they would never have had the chance to be, and in a style they would never have had. And on top of that, they are tops in the field, meshes or no! _____________________
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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03-08-2006 08:52
I tried Active Worlds earlier today. I'm pretty impressed. On first entering the place, it's crap. But I persevered and found some really lovely worlds. I also checked the prices for hosting your own world and it's quite cheap, especially when you consider most people's ISP's provide them with webspace that they probably don't use. So they could store their active world's content in their webspace. The actual server code can be run from your own PC. But what impresses me the most is that it supports meshes. SL is great if you want to make a home and fill it with tables and washing machines. but if you want to produce arty farty stuff in Second Life, then you're always going to be asking too much of it. I've been forcing it to make figures and animals for 2 years. I think it hates me now. If anybody thinks that meshes can't work in a streaming 3D environment. Go check out Active Worlds. |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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03-08-2006 09:04
You optimist you ! I think Newfie hit the nail, "a total rewrite". I think you have to see it as a new product even if it started off as SL. I'm an optimist by nature, pessimist by experience. The two work together to make a mostly-workable human being. As I said, I'm not betting anything on it, but I'm allowing for total surprise. _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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03-08-2006 09:07
That must have been a while ago. Apple first floated what became Mac OS X on Intel in 1997. If Adobe hadn't shot them down then it probably would have happened years ago... Steve Jobs was always of the opinion that going with the Power PC was a strategic mistake. But it didn't become anything like a mainstream idea (as opposed to something Apple engineers toyed with) until quite recently. _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-08-2006 09:25
Horrible and virtually impossible it may have been for you, but damn if you didn't meet the challenge and beat the odds and make the most totally fantastic humans, animals, etc., ever! coco P.S. And think of this - they're different in a way they wouldn't have been had you used meshes, right? And so they are artistic in a way they would never have had the chance to be, and in a style they would never have had. And on top of that, they are tops in the field, meshes or no! Thanks!! I hope I don't come across as being selfish when I moan about meshes not being in Second Life. I'm pushing for meshes in Second Life, but when they do finally arrive. Which they will!. Then I'll be totally lost. I've not really got any experience with real 3D modelling. So I'll be looking very crap next to the pro modellers that pop up with their awesome models that they've made over the last 10 years. I'll be out business the moment the pros get here.  |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-08-2006 09:39
But it didn't become anything like a mainstream idea (as opposed to something Apple engineers toyed with) until quite recently. Apple had a roadmap in place for transition to Intel in 1997. They released developer versions of Rhapsody (what became Mac OS X) for Intel. They had fat binaries for PPC and Intel. They told developers to prepare to convert all their apps from Mac OS to Cocoa: Mac OS 8 would remain supported in what they called "Blue Box", which became Classic, but new applications should be ported to Yellow Box (what became Cocoa). They were shipping software and systems. Adobe put their foot down, said "if you do this, we're abandoning the Mac market". This was all before OS 9 and Carbon. Carbon is the compromise Apple came up with, but the Intel transition is something Jobs has wanted to do since he got back to Apple. |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 09:41
I'll be out business the moment the pros get here. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-08-2006 09:44
If anybody thinks that meshes can't work in a streaming 3D environment. Go check out Active Worlds. |
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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03-08-2006 09:45
I'll be out business the moment the pros get here. |
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-08-2006 09:46
Fortunately, SL isn't just about modelling so I'm sure your business would be safe...for a while anyway. ;P Regardless, 3D modelling isn't that hard to pick up and, if LL is smart, they'll have an integrated modeller built into SL that will be intuitive and easy-to-use... Oh please no!! PLEASE!! NO!!! That's another reason why I want to get away from prims. I want to be able build outside of Second Life. I want to build with tools that work. Sorry. but I'm really bugged by the bugs. Second Life has become too complex and poor Linden Lab are losing (have lost?) control. I can't see anybody making a program as complex as Second Life and not losing the plot. They need to break it up into smaller applications. ASAP. |
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Zepp Zaftig
Unregistered Abuser
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 470
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03-08-2006 09:53
Any moment now, DIVE(Distributed Interactive Virtual Environment) is gonna catch up with SL. After all, it's had thing like HTML support for a very long time and really pretty avatars - Blockie'95 - The New Generation Body Icon
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-08-2006 09:54
Oh please no!! PLEASE!! NO!!! That's another reason why I want to get away from prims. I want to be able build outside of Second Life. I want to build with tools that work. Sorry. but I'm really bugged by the bugs. Second Life has become too complex and poor Linden Lab are losing (have lost?) control. I can't see anybody making a program as complex as Second Life and not losing the plot. They need to break it up into smaller applications. ASAP. |
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Zepp Zaftig
Unregistered Abuser
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 470
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03-08-2006 10:01
Huh? There's no reason external modellers couldn't be used IN ADDITION TO SL's internal modeller. SL already has an internal object editor so an internal modeller wouldn't be that much more complex. Bugs exist in external modellers too. What is needed is something like client-side Mono, so this kind of stuff could be made by residents. I'd really like a way to be able to make client-side applications. |
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-08-2006 10:07
Huh? There's no reason external modellers couldn't be used IN ADDITION TO SL's internal modeller. SL already has an internal object editor so an internal modeller wouldn't be that much more complex. Bugs exist in external modellers too. I guess so, Eep. I think some people like to run SL fullscreen and they need everything to be integrated. That was how I felt when I first came to Second Life. I tried Active Worlds before coming to Second Life. I hated the windowed mode of Active Worlds. I was so used to playing fullscreen FPS games. So when I tried Second Life, I felt at home. and I honestly loved how everything was built in. Now I feel totally the opposite, and I never use fullscreen now. So it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to have to make a model in another application, then upload it into Second Life. I do the same with textures and sounds. so why not models? btw. tell me where I can find your Active World's world |
