will SL succeed?
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-07-2006 09:18
From Daniel James on Puzzle Pirates, Online Community Management, Cutlass Waving (by Simon Carlass, a Gamasutra editor): From: someone As co-founder of Three Rings, the San Francisco-based company behind the cult Java-based 'massively multiplayer puzzlegame' Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates ( http://www.puzzlepirates.com/about/), Daniel James is trying to take a very different path to success in the MMO market after years working on big-budget, eventually shelved MMO adaptions of The Lord Of The Rings. He switched over to a small team, a 2D game, uniquely different gameplay, and a surfeit of skeletons and buccaneers, and created one of the only MMO games out there with genuine buzz. We chatted to him about his road to creating one of the smallest but most intriguing massively multiplayer games around. ... Q: What do you think of the 'virtual world' MMO games like Second Life or There?A: These companies are trying to create Neal Stephenson's Street [from Snowcrash], the ubiquitous virtual world. It's an attractive and elusive concept. These current attempts are not going to succeed - for it to do so, it has to be universally adopted and open-source. Commercial developers won't engage with it until it's ubiquitous, and open-source and not commercially owned. In terms of user-created content, there are a number of roadblocks to getting the critical mass you need for that to be effective. These virtual world companies need a large audience before they have enough creative people, because content creators are in the top one percent of people. But I don't think anyone's going to hang out in a virtual world with no activities. If there isn't anything to talk about, then it's useless. I don't think being able to make wacky game objects is enough for a large audience to talk about. |
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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03-07-2006 09:24
I dunno. People spend hours upon hours in IRC, AOL, or Yahoo chat rooms. At the very very least, SL is just another chat room, so you have guaranteed social interaction.
Oh, of course, we have infinite customization of our appearance and expressions.
And an economy that seems fairly robust for such a toy world.
And a rabid fanbase.
We'll be alright.
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-07-2006 09:46
Not quite infinite av customization: it's limited in ways (scale, slider extents, attachment points, etc). The points I'm most interested in the original answer are that it implies SL should be open-source and NON-commercial. SL is still in the hands of LL: land/sim costs are outrageous, prim counts are low, and its economy is capitalistic (i.e. greedy). One cannot run a sim from one's computer (like one can with Active Worlds worlds). Sims require a central server to authenticate and do other things (like AW does). Assets (objects, textures, sounds, etc) are located on LL's servers instead of the web or one's computer (like AW). SL's objects are propietary that can't be recreated outside of it in a 3D modeller, unlike AW's RWX/COB objects which can be. Active Worlds isn't succeeding mostly because of its VERY slow and incremental development but, while it is a bit more "open-source" (well, open anyway) it's still a fairly closed, propietary system. I don't want to see SL have the same fate... |
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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03-07-2006 09:49
Open source or not, SL would still face mass adoption issues because of its computing requirements.
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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03-07-2006 09:52
Who wrote that? I'm not registered on that site to see.
I'm not in any big hurry to achieve Snowcrash, myself. It's plenty fun here right now, and there are lots of people who agree.
coco
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-07-2006 09:59
OK, check out the original post again; I added the title, author, and intro paragraph.
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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03-07-2006 10:11
Interesting. He's right, we do need more activities (instead of trying to KILL them off the events calendar!!!!!). But people do find lots of things to do here.
You could make the same sorts of observations about Puzzle Pirates; for instance, who is going to want to play a 2-D game?
Plus, who cares about the so-called "commercial developers"? He forgets that there are already HUNDREDS, maybe THOUSANDS, of commercial developers here and working! They (we) just apparently aren't big enough - like Coke, or something - to count, in his book.
And what's this about building "wacky objects"? That's nuts! EVERYTHING in here (with the exception of Linden builds and the ground itself) is made by residents. And most of it isn't "wacky."
coco
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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03-07-2006 10:34
From: Cocoanut Cookie I'm not in any big hurry to achieve Snowcrash, myself. It's plenty fun here right now, and there are lots of people who agree. I thought everything was miserable, had to change, and the Lindens only give sticks and not carrots. I'm really confused.  
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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03-07-2006 10:47
From: Cocoanut Cookie I'm not in any big hurry to achieve Snowcrash, myself. It's plenty fun here right now, and there are lots of people who agree. I feel compelled to point out that to "achieve Snowcrash" is NOT a desirable thing. We want to create the METAVERSE. Snow Crash, in the book, is a computer virus that is capable of frying a hacker's mind.  P2 |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-07-2006 10:57
From: Phoenix Psaltery I feel compelled to point out that to "achieve Snowcrash" is NOT a desirable thing. We want to create the METAVERSE. Snow Crash, in the book, is a computer virus that is capable of frying a hacker's mind. The article says "trying to create Neal Stephenson's Street", not "trying to create Snowcrash". Read more carefully, people... |
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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03-07-2006 11:25
From: Eep Quirk Not quite infinite av customization: it's limited in ways (scale, slider extents, attachment points, etc). There are more combinations of avatars and attachments than there are particles in the universe to represent them. I'd say that's infinite enough for me |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-07-2006 12:04
From: Eggy Lippmann There are more combinations of avatars and attachments than there are particles in the universe to represent them. I'd say that's infinite enough for me Hardly. I've already stated three limitations: scale, slider extents, and attachment points--in case you missed them. There are only so many attachment points (and position ranges) and attachments can only be of so many prims (I don't know the # but I'm sure there's a limit) which can only be manipulated in so many possible ways. All of these possibilities COMBINED are nowhere NEAR the amount of particles in the universe. Go take a basic cosmology class to get a clue about just how big the universe is. Don't be stupid and argumentative. |
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Seifert Surface
Mathematician
Join date: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 912
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03-07-2006 12:31
From: Eep Quirk Hardly. I've already stated three limitations: scale, slider extents, and attachment points--in case you missed them. There are only so many attachment points (and position ranges) and attachments can only be of so many prims (I don't know the # but I'm sure there's a limit) which can only be manipulated in so many possible ways. All of these possibilities COMBINED are nowhere NEAR the amount of particles in the universe. Go take a basic cosmology class to get a clue about just how big the universe is. Don't be stupid and argumentative. <pedantic mathematician> The top estimate on the linked page is 10^87 particles. Just looking at the sliders on the av appearance editor there are 100 possible positions for each slider. The total number of possible positions of those sliders is 100^n, where n is the number of sliders. I haven't counted the number of sliders, but if n > 87/2 = 43.5 (and I think it is), then there are more possible avatars (sliders only, no textures, no attachments) then there are particles in the known universe. </pedantic mathematician> Is this relevant? No, not really.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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03-07-2006 12:31
From: Lordfly Digeridoo And a rabid fanbase.
*foams at the mouth |
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IC Fetid
Registered User
Join date: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 145
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03-07-2006 12:33
Probably not.
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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03-07-2006 12:36
From: Ingrid Ingersoll *foams at the mouth * passes Ingrid an hanky Now bite me |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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03-07-2006 12:37
From: Eep Quirk Don't be stupid and argumentative. Why are you so consistently unpleasant in the forums, man? I just thought you saved that up for your Hotline to Linden posts, but I see your disdainful tone isn't reserved for the developers alone. That's not cool, dude.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-07-2006 12:58
From: Lordfly Digeridoo And a rabid fanbase.
How many people were at the SLCC? 130-150? That is your rabid fanbase. If a rabid fanbase consist of a group of people small enough to be entertained in my Apartment, the base needs to be a little larger... |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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03-07-2006 13:01
From: Eboni Khan How many people were at the SLCC? 130-150? That is your rabid fanbase. If a rabid fanbase consist of a group of people small enough to be entertained in my Apartment, the base needs to be a little larger... I'm rabid and didn't go. A lot of people who couldn't afford the airfare (like the ones living in Calcutta) or who have kids or dogs would find it hard to get away. And then of course there's all the men who are masquerading as women in SL. |
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
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03-07-2006 13:03
From: Enabran Templar Why are you so consistently unpleasant in the forums, man? I just thought you saved that up for your Hotline to Linden posts, but I see your disdainful tone isn't reserved for the developers alone.
That's not cool, dude. I just don't like people acting stupid, like Eggy and the other idiot I have on ignore. I am trying to have serious discussions about things and don't appreciate morons chiming in with their, well, moronicness. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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03-07-2006 13:05
From: Eep Quirk I just don't like people acting stupid, like Eggy and the other idiot I have on ignore. I am trying to have serious discussions about things and don't appreciate morons chiming in with their, well, moronicness. You're behaving like a child. I see a lot of infantile behavior here, but this is particularly egregious, man. Reconsider your behavior.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-07-2006 13:07
From: Ingrid Ingersoll I'm rabid and didn't go. A lot of people who couldn't afford the airfare (like the ones living in Calcutta) or who have kids or dogs would find it hard to get away.
And then of course there's all the men who are masquerading as women in SL. People who are really rabid would find a way to go. That would be the true definition of rabid. Rabid football fans take out loans to get Superbowl tickets when their team finally goes to the Superbowl. Fans just watch on TV. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-07-2006 13:15
From: Ingrid Ingersoll I'm rabid and didn't go. A lot of people who couldn't afford the airfare (like the ones living in Calcutta) or who have kids or dogs would find it hard to get away.
And then of course there's all the men who are masquerading as women in SL. You aren't rabid, you're in heat. There's a difference.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-07-2006 13:16
From: Cocoanut Cookie I'm not in any big hurry to achieve Snowcrash, myself. Not to mention that the Metaverse isn't really practical, and SL is becoming less "contiguous" (one of the things that seemed to be an important aspect of the Metaverse) all the time. Islands show up on the map, yes, but you can't fly, drive, or walk to them, and the new "Korean" continent isn't connected to the mainland either. A sim's location isn't really similar to a "Street" address any more, it's more like an IP address. They ought to either drop void sims in to fill in the gaps, or give up on linear space completely. Connect the left and right and top and bottom sides of each continent and island with void sims in the gap. Fly off the world in any direction and you'll end up back on the opposite side. |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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03-07-2006 13:47
From: Argent Stonecutter SL is becoming less "contiguous" (one of the things that seemed to be an important aspect of the Metaverse) all the time. Islands show up on the map, yes, but you can't fly, drive, or walk to them, and the new "Korean" continent isn't connected to the mainland either.
I know, i hate that. From: Argent Stonecutter
They ought to either drop void sims in to fill in the gaps.
that would be sweet. |
