Abuse reports, laughable or laudable?

Kiss this thread bye bye

well, it usually means that if someone is busy, well they might be occupied doing a previusly arranged activity. It doesn't mean that they don't want to talk to you, they just are... you know, busy.

Your idea of happy endings... compels me.... just like the final episode of Evangelion.

*shivers a bit*

I had someone file an AR on me once when two friends and I were shopping. The girl I was with was calling the man we were with Master and I called him Sir. A minute later we each got an IM from some woman saying that she had filed an AR because the other girl was too scantily dressed (mature sim) and that she didn't allow (quoting) "Bdsm types" in her store. We laughed and left. Nothing ever came of it.

The one and only time I filed an AR was because a person who had been banned from the land I was on showed up while we were having a discussion group. He had figured out a way to somehow float high enough above the land (an outdoor setting) slightly off its border and was creating linked 10x10x10 prims and setting them right on top of us... linking them on the other person's land and sliding them over to drop them on us. Childish but dam clever. LOL

In both cases I never actually heard anything back but he never apeared to try it again so I assumed someone had spoken to him.

The first month Ferran and I were in world she got warned for saying dildo in the welcome area. Her response was to put "You can't say Dildo in PG" on a tshirt and pass it out.
I still have it somewhere.

My favorite questionable tshirt (besides Cthulthu Saves) is black with a bold STFU on it. I've never been hassled for it yet.

Abuse reports work. They just take time. There are a lot of griefers out there... including those who cause grief by filing reports. The abuse team has a LOT of stuff to sort through, but it eventually works. Give them time. Patience is a virtue with a lot of wait.

But Kris... you are a troll... teh kyootest troll on teh forums

The reason Live Help and liaisons always simply say, "File an abuse report" is because there's a special set of people - a department - at Linden Lab who deal with these abuse reports. They have guidelines and such; not every liaison is trained in these. Live Helpers don't have access to read them.

I'm sure most of them are frivelous. I've filed abuse reports in the past, but mainly when doing Live Help and finding a minor. They're always worked for me. You'll have more success with an actual abuse report if its actually against ToS - i.e., hurting feelings is NOT against the ToS - and if you take your time and clearly explain the situation. See the difference between:

"zOMG this ass named Bill shot me u better ban him zOMG!!!!!!!!!!11111"

-and-

"While working on a build in my sim of Simname, at about 2:43 SL time I started to be shot by Bill Lastname. I asked him to stop several times and he continued, so I've ported to another sim for a little bit and am reporting abuse. Thanks for your time."

Which one would you take more seriously? Which one would you be more likely to believe?

Just some friendly tips.

Regards,

-Flip

OMG they really had the rules tight then.......These days the wa is alittle more loose and you don`t have people picking on ever little thing a they di din the past. But problem is these days the people are doing worse things.....And monitors really need to watchout for all sorts of strange actions.

There's a reason shields and other defensive tools exist, and there's a reason clubs have had a history of maintaining their own security. And it sure isn't because filing abuse reports typically results in rapid, useful responses (or any response at all).

Sure, file an abuse report if it makes you feel good, and it might even help. But if you think it's a guaranteed ticket to resolving the problem, you probably haven't been targetted by a repeat griefer and had the delightful experience of the Lindens repeatedly doing nothing about it.

No offense meant to LL -- they probably do what they can, and SL is a wonderful thing. Just some of us find that filing an abuse report is kind of like buying a lottery ticket -- you might win, but the odds are unbelievably against it.

oooh! I do!

Abuse report results are cryptic in part because it is the place in which the folks reported (supposedly) that is shown in location. This was explained to me after a griefer griefed a class and then took down the sim. I do not know how it could have been abuse reported from any of the sims listed for corrective action for that day, though, as all of the abuse reports were filed from sylvina, once we were able to come back (the whole class except for the griefer did make it back, so that was good). I was rather saddened to see (as it seemed) that the griefer got no response after effectively delaying a class for 15 minutes. I was later told that he was ARed for something else somewhere else and probably got banned for that before he could be banned for bombing the class.

Even though a true griefer is able to create an alt account to get back in, using a different IP and credit card, Abuse Reports still create a paper trail. It is the best we can do at present. Asking a Linden (or help desk) person to fix it without first filing an AR would be like telling the police officer who shows up to your house after a robbery, "Look, I don't have time to talk to you. Put your pen away and go catch the theif!" (nevermind that, without a report, the police officer has none of the details of the crime.)

Abuse reports work grand, it is the Lindens paperwork, they need it to back up thier actions, so file those abuse reports, and do it with a SMILE!

For me, it's a simple matter of efficiency.

If some griefer (we'll call him Jerkoff) is spamming a weapon that does something really nasty like simultaneously lag and push me, I might find myself barely able to act and wholly unable to teleport away. I might find my experience being soured, to say the least.

I can take time and effort out to file an abuse report, and I can wait and hope and pray the Lindens eventually do something, maybe, or at least file it away with the intent of one day thinking of doing something after Jerkoff strikes a dozen or so more times. My experience that day will still be horribly disrupted, however.

Or I can type /8 orbit Jerkoff, and I and everyone else present can just go back to whatever we were doing without a hitch.

To me, it's a no-brainer. Your mileage may vary.

this topic is a serious one and this thread has seen some serious discussion; however, there has been some unseemly discussion throughout as well.

i would like to suggest that the original topic enjoy continued discussion without being hampered by personal attacks, trolling, etc..

Someone 'littered' prims all over my parcel and pretty much the whole sim. I simply sent a screenshot along with the AR, returned the items on my land.. and checked the Blotter the next day.

So, I find that it works. *munches popcorn*

In the entire time I have been in sl i am only aware of one incidence where someone was supended. This is amazing to me since i am continually greifed by a specific group on a day to day basis in a TLC sandbox while i am mentoring. Yes I've gone to other sandboxes and the WA to mentor but this group seems to make the rounds until they eventually find me and the shooting and bombing happen all over again. When live help or a Linden comes the griefers shoot bomb and cage them as well.
I have been told conflicting ways to handle the situation by Lindens and live help.
What constitutes being AR worthy? Does repetative shooting and bombing on a daily basis constitute a worthy AR? Well I thought it did but apparently not so. This bunch has yet to be banned or suspended.
If the Lindens tell you to file a report then how many reports do you and others send in before they consider the situation or consider you a fruit cake for sending in so many reports? i have even called sl and what was the very first thing i was told? You have sent in over 60 Ar's since first starting this game (9 months). what was the purpose of telling me how many reports I've made? Is 60 too many? After calling live help during a griefing incident (of a griefing group shooting newbies while i was mentoring them) I was told by a Linden to file reports and keep filing them. I said I had and sent in over 60 reports and this particular live helper said "Is that all since you started? I know live helpres who have sent in more than that in a shorter period of time. that isnt many" Wow live helper... that helps the situation doesnt it. and saying this with the griefers still standing there lets them know just exactly how far they can go.
And now i was griefed just yesterday by a TLC staff member/mentor who decided to make an alt and shoot up the sandbox to 'test" me to see my reaction. After which i was informed by the TLC staff member/mentor that he was using an alt and that shooting me was not AR worthy because i wasnt pushed into another region. I sent the AR because he was warned not to shoot in a pg newbie learning area repeatedly. he also told me i had sent in so many reports the lindens wouldnt listen any more. How did he know? he isnt a Linden.... now isnt that interesting? Of course i reported him for griefing and was told by a linden "we already know about it".
Is this what it's coming to? Now it's ok to grief the person reporting to test them and the Lindens stand idly by? Good grief ... how many witnesses to griefing and reports by so many does it take to get it to stop? and now for those who are targeted by a griefing group there is no recourse. they can count on griefing you to a point where you are so harrassed that the lindens and live help look at you as being a nut case for sending in multiple ARs even though this is exactly what you were told to do in the first place. I dont send in AR's for someone bumping into me... i send them for someone repeatedly shooting and bombing after being asked to stop.
Now ask me if i will ever send in another AR while mentoring. Griefer.... have a field day!!! any Lindens want to talk to me about being set up i'll gladly provide proof with screen shots. but i would stake my life on it that none do.
Do i sound angry? You bet!!!

Just adding my two cents - I've been friends with Savi for a long time and have watched as the Lindens ignore what is happening to her.

My experience with Lindens has been good, personally, so this immense gap between rules and practice seems very odd to me. (If a Linden is shot by a griefer who has been AR'd, wouldn't you think that'd be enough to get him banned?)

Personally, I think I'm going to include the appropriate section of Terms of Service and Community Standards in every report, so they have no excuse for it. Not that it will change anything.

Oh, and don't you love how when a nice orbit in a laggy sim crashes your client... you can't file an abuse report? Usually because you can't be sure who did it, since your pvp log is wiped.

I usually find the key to affective AR'ing is to quote which part of the 'community standards' is being violated, rather than just saying "this person has 20ft high genitalia on top of their building".

Persistence also pays off. Recently I noticed one very clear CS violation that was so obvious it was painful - yet LL ignored two reports, and it was only on the third report that the matter was dealt with in the correct manner. As the guilty party is in a different timezone I haven't seen them online for weeks anyway, yet I see no mention in the Police Blotter as to whether any action was taken or whether the item was just removed by a Linden and a warning given.

There aren't many rules, yet people still seem to be able to break them on a regular basis.

Lewis

Very True.

I had a problem today with a guy coming to the sim i work in while i was all alone, and shot at me. I'm invulnerable to push, since i wear 2 shields and a move lock. So all this person got out of it was a swift orbit from my psitech, a eject+ban, and this AR "A blank newbie account named <XXXNAMEXXX> entered a private sim and shot at me. I quickly eject/banned them.". Next time i write a Abuse Report, I'll include a snipet from the TOS like you mentioned.

From what I've been reading, the Linden response is inconsistent at best, and sometimes worse than useless. There simply aren't enough of them to act as policemen. There are perhaps 100 Lindens ingame at all, and frequently only one or two is online at any given moment.

Think about these numbers. That's one Linden rep for every 2000 people, and that's being generous. The actual ratio is more like one Linden for every 3000 online.

The Lindens also answer problems like misplaced trees, broken roads, missing land, and stuff that just breaks and needs fixing on public land.

So your chances of getting any aid from one is slim to nearly none.

So what happens if you just orbit a griefer? Probably not much, even if he does report it. If you report the incident and he does, then it's a he-said-she-said situation and it boils down to a draw. And if you =do= get suspended, from the light handslapping and finger waggling griefers get from the Lindens, it's easy to assume that it takes a great many such incidents to get you banned permanently.

Then there's the other side of things - the Linden side.

Look at the police blotter. Most of the suspensions are for things like civil rights violations that could have RL ramifications. Fully half of them are for things said in the forums! Since when does a profane word carry the same weight as being hit with a nuclear bomb in a supposedly safe sandbox?

The answer is that the Lindens are not engendered to keep the peace, pure and simple. They're there to make sure your civil rights aren't violated, because frankly, they can be sued for that. But since getting thrown around while you're trying to enjoy yourself isn't violating your civil rights - because it's not happening in the real world - there's no legal need for them to do much of anything.

Mention the KKK, or make racially abusive comments, and you can get a suspension pretty quickly. But for the most part, shooting at you just doesn't register.

And if you think it's bad now, wait till the floodgates open and all the casual griefers come in - who cares if they get themselves suspended permanently? They'll just get another free Alt under a different name, and they'll be back the very next day. Except this time they'll know how everything works, where to go and who to talk to to get all their old weapons back in nothing flat.


So yes, file those abuse reports, and you might get lucky eventually.

But I wouldn't count on that to make griefers go away all by itself.

It's complete anarchy inworld. A creative, wonderful anarchy, but an anarchy, with everything that implies.

I had a neighbor that set out a scripted “nuke” on his land on his last day in SL before canceling his account. People would wander by, see it and set it off all the time. I first tried live help to see if someone could just delete it since the guy wasn't in sl anymore. I got the “file an abuse report” bs, so I did. After a day I got the standard “this issue has been resolved” email. I log in, the nuke is still there. So I am thinking, maybe it's on the maintenance list to clean up, so I give it a week. After a week it's still there and me and my friends are still getting blown out of the sim at random.

So I file another AR, pointing out that I have already AR'd it once and nothing was done. A day or so later I again get the automated “this issue has been resolved” email. I log in to look, and of course the nuke is still there.

At this point I have had enough, so I start sending IM's to Phillip Linden directly telling him what has been going on. Amazingly enough, within five minutes a Linden was there and deleted the nuke.

Moral of the story? Screw AR's, IM Phillip Linden directly if you want results. Trust me, after a few thousand of those, AR's will start to actually get results.

All that means is that they've resolved it to their satisfaction, not yours. Sometimes that means, oh, I can't find it or I can't locate the parties involved at the moment, so I'm going to hit the "Resolved" button and move on to the next transient problem.

I have a strong feeling that most griefing complaints take up far more time than is profitable for Linden LAbs to expend on them, so they just get the "Resolved" button.

It's great that you got the top Linden to respond to deal with your particular issue, but you can bet that trick won't work more than about half a dozen times.

For the rest of us, I'm afraid it's business as usual. I'll tell you one thing, though - I'm working on my self-defensive scripted attachments. I see no need to be allow myself to be victimized if I know I can't count on any sort of standard intervention process, because there isn't one. There's only a post-incident reporting process, which most of the time results in no apparent actions or sanctions having taken place, as far as I or anyone I know can tell.

I could be wrong, of course, and I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

Dang Here is the problem as I see it....someone comes along to grief anyone near him.... he runs into them knocking them around doing what ever he pleases and "forbid" if he ever gets a gun or weapon, then you in real trouble cause THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE IN A VIRTUAL WORLD. NO ONE can walk/run up to him cuff him and throw him in jail. You cant touch someone in a virtual world...except for complete banning ( which we all know wont work long cause he will be back)...you are at a checkmate friends. This virtual world is going to run into some interesting problems. Not the least is the fact that rampant griefing is going on now and getting worse....unless you have guard dogs ( now really..in a virtual world you have to guard yourself...oh hell yes), and a big gun or live on protected land or next to it...you will have fun trying to protect yourself. There are other things in a virtual world that will give a grief of their own.....the Pervs have no morality and no problem soliciting sex from any cute avatar they find unless of course the avatar does have morals and sics the dogs on the perv lol. One other thing bothering me....this virtual world.....just how far is this thing going to go....can we expect that people are going to live 2 lives....SL and RL....for how long....LETS face it people really are buying land and building homes and running business just like it was RL....even getting married and female avatars getting pregnant. I am just curioius if anyone can give a prognosis as to how far this will actually go. Any ideas out there?

Hi, I would like it to be known that Banning people isn't always as answer to everything, Last night I banned a guy for General griefing, he was not shooting anyone (This time) he was talking filthily to my wife and trying to (I gather) stop me from building what I was working on. That said, this guy then decided to take things to extreme, he hacked into mine and my wife's accounts, flew to an island were both my wife and I were liked and respected (I was also an Estate Manager there), then started returning objects while using my wifes avatar, our friends saw this and were trying to talk to who they thought was my wife, asking why she was returning everything, and naturally my wife didn't answer because she was asleep beside me in bed.

Now, we are no longer allowed to go to that island, we have been removed from any and all lists pertaining to that island, and our friends apparently no longer wish to be our friends, the owner of the island apparently paid someone to make a decision regarding what to do and I formally submitted my version of events.

I also reported it using an AR, this type of action is illegal, if I get no satisfaction I am going to take things further and report this misuse of the internet to the authorities. Hopefully they will be able to get to the bottom of this, hopefully they get access to Linden Labs equipment and see exactly who this guy is and where he comes from, I know he is in the states, which one I don't know.

This may seem a little ambitious of me, but what else am I able to do, probably nothing, so I will give this situation everything I have and hope for the best possible outcome.

Regards Ray