Philip has posted his intended remarks on his blog
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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06-24-2006 12:55
Y'all are talking about Second Life being sold like that's a "defacto" bad thing, even if that's what's being planned which, at this moment in time, I don't believe is the case anyway. But what inherently makes that such a bad possibility? Fear of the unknown?
It's often coming from the same people who think that Linden Lab couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag, so surely you'd welcome a change in management, no?
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
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06-24-2006 13:19
From: Usagi Musashi I wish mr. philip would get his dirty butt in the game and see how bad it is now. But will he i highly doubt it! What an assholish comment.
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
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06-24-2006 13:20
From: David Valentino I could be blowing smoke here
Ya think?
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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06-24-2006 13:29
From: Luciftias Neurocam What an assholish comment. Quite frankly, there are some people just being utter jerks about this. I respect their right to an opinion, but I also respect my right to call the, shall I say, less than sensible, realistic ones, bleedin' jerks.
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Tsukasa Karuna
Master of all things desu
Join date: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 370
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06-24-2006 13:38
From: someone I wish mr. philip would get his dirty butt in the game and see how bad it is now. But will he i highly doubt it!
Wow. 2nded on the assholish comment bandwagon. Btw, dont you think that philip probably IS in the world regularly, just under an alt? Yeah, Lewis Nerd, i'm talking to you 
_____________________
".. who as of 5 seconds ago is no longer the deliverator.."
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Roxie Marten
Crumedgeon
Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 291
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06-24-2006 13:40
For all the folks who are kvetching about Phillip on what he is doing or not doing. One small fact. It is his game. He can do what ever he pleases. If you don't like it. Go start your own game.
To people who are asking is this the end. Was this Phillips swan song. I wouldn't blame him if he said enough and pulled the plug on the whole damm thing. Three years of listening to trash talk about you, your dream and your efforts. There is only so much a person can take. Phillip if your reading this. Pull the plug. your tossing your pearls before swine.
I return you to your kvetching and whining.
Rox
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 13:47
From: Tsukasa Karuna Btw, dont you think that philip probably IS in the world regularly, just under an alt? Yeah, Lewis Nerd, i'm talking to you  Who knows. All I see in him right now from the public face given to us in-world when he decides to meet us is someone very detatched from the reality of what being in Second Life entails. Comments from a recent town hall such as "We've had that feature for over a year? I didn't know that, I'll have to check that out" do not give confidence either. Lewis
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 13:48
From: Roxie Marten Three years of listening to trash talk about you, your dream and your efforts. There is only so much a person can take. Well that's what happens when you don't listen to your customers. It would help if "his dream" was actually a realistic one rather than trying to become something impossible. Anyone remember "Microsoft Bob"? Lewis
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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06-24-2006 13:59
Further exercising my right to call somebody a jerk, I'll now use that right to say that Lewis, you're a 100% gold-plated one. I've tried reasoning with you on several threads (to which I'm either talked down to or discounted out of hand), I've tried explaining my situation (to which I've been ignored) and I've seriously tried to put myself in your shoes before I reply and think "Am I so very wrong?"
And yet you continue to spout such utter, unbelievable tripe, I can no longer say, whilst remaining sane, that you are worth the time, effort or breath. You've been unhappy here ever since you arrived. Why on earth are you still here? I simply don't get it.
Go chase some other game for a while. I, and I think several others, are just finding you to be an ignorant, bigotted, unreasonable, self-centered idiot.
Seriously, you don't have the first bloody clue on what it takes to run a business, never mind a business like this. And yet, to listen to you talk anybody would think you're Donald-fucking-Trump with the world's greatest social conscience and the ability to listen to everybody at once rolled up into a neat little package. Unrealistic in the real world? Damn straight it is.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 14:06
From: Moopf Murray You've been unhappy here ever since you arrived. Why on earth are you still here? I simply don't get it. I enjoy the building and socialising that the game offers. I try and ignore the irritating things like capitalism as far as I can, and silly people. Welcome to my ignore list. From: Moopf Murray Seriously, you don't have the first bloody clue on what it takes to run a business, never mind a business like this. And you do? No, I didn't think so. Lewis
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mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
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06-24-2006 14:15
From: Lewis Nerd I enjoy the building and socialising that the game offers. I try and ignore the irritating things like capitalism as far as I can, and silly people. Welcome to my ignore list.
Lewis What is your issue with capitalism??
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 14:20
From: mcgeeb Gupte What is your issue with capitalism?? It's well documented. I just happen to think that people shouldn't be making money off of a computer game, that's all. Second Life's success is based on the quality of the content that new players can experience when they log in. If they see good stuff, they enjoy it, if they see crap they log out. When someone is doing things purely to turn a profit, they only have their own needs in mind rather than the good of the community. It's quite clear to see that the vast majority of in-world things are based around commercial activity in one form or another, or the economic side of the game, rather than things done just for fun and enjoyment. I have fun and enjoyment doing stuff in game, spending my money each month and not caring if I get 1 or 1000 visitors drop through, rather than worring about whether I'm going to sell enough to meet my tier this month, and the value of the L$, because I am spending more than I can afford to lose if I don't cover the costs. There are a few exceptions to the rule, of course... but you only have to think of a few names to realise that capitalism doesn't help in the real world, and won't help a virtual one either in the long term. Lewis
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mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
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06-24-2006 14:25
From: Lewis Nerd It's well documented.
I just happen to think that people shouldn't be making money off of a computer game, that's all.
Second Life's success is based on the quality of the content that new players can experience when they log in. If they see good stuff, they enjoy it, if they see crap they log out.
When someone is doing things purely to turn a profit, they only have their own needs in mind rather than the good of the community. It's quite clear to see that the vast majority of in-world things are based around commercial activity in one form or another, or the economic side of the game, rather than things done just for fun and enjoyment.
I have fun and enjoyment doing stuff in game, spending my money each month and not caring if I get 1 or 1000 visitors drop through, rather than worring about whether I'm going to sell enough to meet my tier this month, and the value of the L$, because I am spending more than I can afford to lose if I don't cover the costs.
There are a few exceptions to the rule, of course... but you only have to think of a few names to realise that capitalism doesn't help in the real world, and won't help a virtual one either in the long term.
Lewis People shouldn't be making money from video games?? That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that because its a video game LL should not make money? Are you also saying that the people employed at LL should also not be taking home money too? LL is doing this to turn a profit. Should they be doing it just for the good of the community also? Go ahead have fun and enjoyment, but don't tell anyone that they shouldn't make money because its a video game.
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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06-24-2006 14:26
From: Lewis Nerd I enjoy the building and socialising that the game offers. I try and ignore the irritating things like capitalism as far as I can, and silly people. Welcome to my ignore list. Thank you, it's a comfortable place  Not that you'd know I think it's comfortable as I'm now on ignore - yipee-kai-aye. You've ignored most of what I've said directly to you over the past couple of days anyway, and I can only presume it's because you realise you're being an over the top idiot about it, so now you can ignore it and not have to worry about those little feelings of 'ack, yeah, he's got a point'. Cowards way out, that. From: Lewis Nerd And you do? No, I didn't think so. Lewis Well you know, as somebody who has run businesses (several in fact) for ten years yes, I do believe I have a good grasp on running a business, a good grasp on how competing issues can cause problems, a good grasp on how decisions can be misread, and a good grasp on how it's not always possible to keep absolutely 100% abreast of the minutiae of every single thing that goes on. And how, when push comes to shove, you make the best decisions in your opinion for your business, regardless of whether they are or are not popular when you make them. I'm not the world's greatest business man and I'm not the worst. But I do have an understanding of the issues involved which, judging from your picking apart of everything here, and your blatant attacking both personally and professionally of the people making those decisions, I'd suggest you don't have the first clue about. Have an opinion, by all means, but realise that what you currently do is far more than that and totally out of proportion. And my last couple of responses are me bringing myself down to your ridiculous level, which has led you to supposedly put me on ignore. Now you probably know why you're not listened to more yourself. Enjoy.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 14:31
From: mcgeeb Gupte People shouldn't be making money from video games?? That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that because its a video game LL should not make money? Are you also saying that the people employed at LL should also not be taking home money too? LL is doing this to turn a profit. Should they be doing it just for the good of the community also? Go ahead have fun and enjoyment, but don't tell anyone that they shouldn't make money because its a video game. I'm talking about the players, not the company running it. There are reasons why many online computer games have rules AGAINST turning game goods into real money. Linden Labs facilitiate it as an integral part of their game - and it is only a matter of time before the tax people catch up with it, then we'll all be up crap creek. Thankfully I don't sell L$ so I have nothing to worry about. Lewis
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mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
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06-24-2006 14:34
From: Lewis Nerd I'm talking about the players, not the company running it.
There are reasons why many online computer games have rules AGAINST turning game goods into real money. Linden Labs facilitiate it as an integral part of their game - and it is only a matter of time before the tax people catch up with it, then we'll all be up crap creek.
Thankfully I don't sell L$ so I have nothing to worry about.
Lewis So whats the difference if LL employees a bunch of ppl to create content compared to user's creating content?
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 14:39
From: mcgeeb Gupte So whats the difference if LL employees a bunch of ppl to create content compared to user's creating content? It was this 'custom content' ability that made the original Sims games popular, so LL obviously saw how well this worked, the only real difference between them is that, being so old, Sims used isometric 3D, SL uses proper 3D. LL content developers cost money. SL players pay to play to do it. Being able to shape and create the game as we want to , or using things others have produced, is the main reason I am still here, and one of the reasons so many people are leaving Sims Online - the lack of custom content ability after 3 years even though it was part of the original plan. Lewis
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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06-24-2006 14:42
<ahem> "Someone has to pay the bills." End of the story, Mr. Nerd. And for the record. SL has never been a game. It has no realy rules. No objectives. No functional meters for progress. In fact, if you want to get right down to it, the only major numerical indicator IS the Linden Dollar amount... Sooo... Nah. That's just silly. Even by my standards. Now, if you don't like capitalism, then do us all a favor and live up to your standards: Get rid of your worldly posessions. Especially your computer. Please. Otherwise, I'll just be amused by your comedic antics as you talk without conviction. Me? I have a fundimental understanding of how this works: Telecoms charge for bandwidth, SL charges for Tier (bandwidth and payroll), Owner charges for products (bandwidth, payroll, and break-even/profit), and you get Toys/Fun in exchange for maintaining those costs. If you don't like it. Well... If you don't like it, then your going to be unhappy. Luckily, your being unhappy is not my problem. Or anyone elses. Bye now, and don't forget to tip your waitre... Oh. Never mind. 
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 14:46
From: Foolish Frost Now, if you don't like capitalism, then do us all a favor and live up to your standards: Get rid of your worldly posessions. Especially your computer. Please. Actually having possessions is not capitalism, it's daily life. Capitalism is all about striving to have the most, be the top dog, regardless of the cost to other people. Me being here is good for SL because I pay to play (hence helping keep LL afloat), plus I provide content for other players to enjoy. As a resident of SL, I also have the ability and the right to post on these message boards (as long as I do not break the CS, which I don't), and I shall continue to exercise that right whether you like it or not. Lewis
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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06-24-2006 14:53
From: Lewis Nerd I'm talking about the players, not the company running it. There are reasons why many online computer games have rules AGAINST turning game goods into real money. Linden Labs facilitiate it as an integral part of their game - and it is only a matter of time before the tax people catch up with it, then we'll all be up crap creek. Thankfully I don't sell L$ so I have nothing to worry about. Lewis Well I know you're not listening to me as I'm now on ignore, so I shall reply with impunity to the fallacy of what you say here! (no peeking now, that would be cheating!) Anybody who is making money at a level sufficient for their country's tax system to mean they should be declaring only has themselves to blame if they're not declaring it. Their fault entirely and that's absolutely no argument against not allowing people to make US$ - unless you simply want to control. It's exactly the same with people selling on eBay etc. I guess you're suggesting that those shouldn't be allowed either? I dunno, I can't quite make out where your lines of deliniation are to be honest, they seem so mixed up and incoherent. And as for others being up crap creek, well no, not really. If you don't sell anything it's non of your business if the tax man suddenly gets interested in SL. So it makes no diffrerence to you and won't impact you. Dip your nib out and stop worrying about it.
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mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
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06-24-2006 14:53
From: Lewis Nerd Actually having possessions is not capitalism, it's daily life. Capitalism is all about striving to have the most, be the top dog, regardless of the cost to other people.
Me being here is good for SL because I pay to play (hence helping keep LL afloat), plus I provide content for other players to enjoy.
As a resident of SL, I also have the ability and the right to post on these message boards (as long as I do not break the CS, which I don't), and I shall continue to exercise that right whether you like it or not.
Lewis You make no sense at all.
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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06-24-2006 14:55
*blinks in weary confusion* Umm.. I'm not going back about 5 pages to find out when this turned into such a face off, but is it wrong to feel that the head developer of the game should know what's going on within it? Sure, Usagi might have put it in less than flattering terms but, after seeing repeated townhall meetings and then this speech, it has definately dawned on me that Philip has lost touch with the players not to mention the game itself.
I admit that I am not a people person but it doesn't take being one to realize that another isn't one either. Sure, our protest probably caught him completely off guard, so his original answers probably weren't thought out the way they should be. Thinking back, it looks like whenever he's in a question and answers session, he comes across as having little to no clue what's really going on with the game itself. Oh, sure, he knows the numbers, but not the playerbase those numbers represent. If I was him, I'd hire someone who did and I'd listen carefully to what they say before I made a move, if I didn't have the time to do the research myself.
I know that I won't be looking at this as anything other than a game, thus I won't be making any major investment in it. Right now, my confidence in the main person responsible for the game is shaken and that's not a good thing for a company.
_____________________
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 15:01
From: mcgeeb Gupte You make no sense at all. Neither do you. So I'm going to go and do something more interesting than read your posts. Lewis
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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06-24-2006 15:07
From: Raudf Fox Sure, our protest probably caught him completely off guard, so his original answers probably weren't thought out the way they should be. I'm not sure it would have "caught him off guard", quite honestly. There was plenty of talk on the forums about it, and three Lindens "dropping by" before the meeting, you would have thought somewhere along the line someone might have tipped him off? I mean... when I'm going into a meeting to do a presentation, I like to be prepared. I know what I'm talking about, and I've looked into the people who are going to be there to make sure I am, for the want of a better term, "scratching where they are itching". It's all pretty standard business practices. Lewis
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Geoff Macdonald
Registered User
Join date: 1 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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Good Thinking....Raudf Fox
06-24-2006 15:18
"I admit that I am not a people person but it doesn't take being one to realize that another isn't one either. Sure, our protest probably caught him completely off guard, so his original answers probably weren't thought out the way they should be. Thinking back, it looks like whenever he's in a question and answers session, he comes across as having little to no clue what's really going on with the game itself. Oh, sure, he knows the numbers, but not the playerbase those numbers represent. If I was him, I'd hire someone who did and I'd listen carefully to what they say before I made a move, if I didn't have the time to do the research myself. "
Exactly... you reflect some of the same thiniking out lined in my post....
A Change Is In The Air....
Yes.. there was a 'tone' of nostalgia, to the point of melancholy in Phil's remarks. That is, if you can infere such emotions to text. That is very difficult - which only talented writers and successful authors can achieve.
Anyway, put into the context of corporate organizational behavior, I see SL entering a new phase of development. While change is often good, this phase of development may be a meaner, leaner, and more densely populated world than many of us older residents, including, it seems, Phil, fondly recall. Ah, the good old days. Like in that old TV series Cheers.... "where everyone knows your name..."
SL is unique to the corporate world. But, it is still basically a corporation and will behave in most ways as an American corporation - a 3 year business plan, and short term quarterly financial goals. Oh, and finally, an "Exit Strategy".
So, here we are, ummm... 3 years into the Business Plan. Get my drift?
Yes, infusions of outside venture capital can be heady stuff. The fuel, and too often a drug, to manifest and fulfill the dream that Phil spoke about in such a reminiscent way. But, there is always a price to pay. Part of that price is having certain corporation performance goals and objectives that are not always your 'own' - which many a CEO of a start-up has learned. Subscriber numbers, revenue and profit goals, "Return on Cash" invested, threats of competition... sometimes even by competitors your investors have also invested in. They hedge their bets quite often.
Successful companies with fearless, talented and persistant leaders at the top usually make it through the start-up phase and proceed to grow, diversify and generally flourish. Unfortunately for many of the individuals in the top management positions, the talent, skills, management style and experience in running a large, now more mature, organization are not always those same skill sets that it took to create an entrepreneurial start-up such as Second Life. Granted, Phil & Co. are entreprenuerial leaders in this industry sector. The industy literature and media converage all agree SL is unique in a mostly ubiquitous world of mindless first person shooter games and less interactive virtual worlds.
Bottom line, it's all reduced to numbers now. The goals have been set with alot of input by the investors, and agreed to by management. So, here we go. Get the numbers up as fast and quicky as possible. The new 3-year Business Plan and growth strategies are going into effect soon. Do whatever you can, even if it hurts and goes against your altruistic entreprenueral nature. Notice how few Linden posts and responses lately? Every one is screaming about this and now that. Silence. Even our favorite watermelon Linden is quiet - and apparently stressed as noted in the recent post about being able to keep up.
IF Second Life is going to succeed and continue this path of developing an evergrowing virtual world and economy, there must be change. Now is the time for certain people to stand back, self-evaluate and reflect - ""Is what I offer SL in terms of my background, skills, and management style what the company needs as it enters this next phase of organizational growth and development? Or does the company now need the strong and steady hand of an experienced "Operations" executive team? Can I assume that role? Or, should I stay in my element of entrepreneurial visionary and start-up executive?""
We cannot answer these questions for the LL executive team. Only they can ultimately decide what course to take and on which strategies to focus company resources. We can only advise, and, yes, often bitterly complain. I am not a big fan of Advisory Boards. They can be manipulated by management as simply as deciding who sits on the Board. But, it might be a good exercise for this organization at this point and time.
In the meantime, we see a bit of floundering, false starts, lack of meaningful communications, a degree of operational chaos, and the resultant customer dissatisfaction.
Yes, numbers are up - but at a certain 'cost'. The grid is swarming with undocumented residents, dozens of new sims and islands are packing the existing (already congested) grid to what may soon become a critical mass in terms of load lag and just plain old overpopulation of a limited virtual geography and limited technical resources. I see islands approaching ever closer to mine. Which is normal human behavior when living in an every increasing population on the same land mass. "Stack 'em and Pack 'em".... seems to be one strategy in evidence. BTW, that also permits a great deal of cost avoidance in terms of expanding the grid. Again, it's all about the numbers going forward. Don't ever forget that....
Yes, A certain sadness and sense of finality pervades, and reminds me of Galadriel's lament in Lord of the Rings...at the end of the Third Age of Middle Earth. *assumes Elror's elvish personna.....
I amar prestar aen ********** 'The world is changing' Han mathon ne nen ********** 'I feel it in the water' Han mathon ne chae ********** 'I feel it in the earth' A han nostron ned wilith ********** 'I smell it in the air'
Fare Thee Well, friends....
E.
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