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Child girl AV, sex with Adult male AV? is this right??? |
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Samia Perun
Registered User
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 111
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08-09-2006 07:25
I have to wonder if you have children. I'm just sorry you see protecting children as a bad thing to do. BUT..yes, I am obsessed with protecting my child from pedifiles and I am definatlly obsessed with removing it from the world. So paint me whatever color you want for being a moralistic person  There is a fine line between moralistic and fanatical. |
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Nimil Blackflag
LuNi Designer
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 93
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08-09-2006 07:26
I have to wonder if you have children. I'm just sorry you see protecting children as a bad thing to do. BUT..yes, I am obsessed with protecting my child from pedifiles and I am definatlly obsessed with removing it from the world. So paint me whatever color you want for being a moralistic person if you must know, i have no kids. i don't want them. it is one thing to protect a child from an adult with those tendancies but it is another to protect an adult from another adult who knows full and well that they're playing with an adult dressed as a child. |
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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08-09-2006 07:26
I have to wonder if you have children. I'm just sorry you see protecting children as a bad thing to do. BUT..yes, I am obsessed with protecting my child from pedifiles and I am definatlly obsessed with removing it from the world. So paint me whatever color you want for being a moralistic person great ! log out of SL and don't use the internet, nor watch TV, nor go in public. or does your obsession just mean "i don't want two consenting adults to do something, but I am not going to inconvenience myself in any way?" which i would define as selfish and not very moralistic at all. _____________________
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication.  |
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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08-09-2006 07:29
Consenting adults or not, the imagery is child pronography and that is highly illegal. It's only a matter of time til LL gets nailed since they ARE responsible for the content on thier server. Imagery may be but it has to actually involve a real child cite the law change in 2002 where it says that it needs to be indistiguishable from a real child. If people were posting photos of naked kids up in SL i'd say something about it. I think pedophelia is wrong but these folks do have a right to express themselves on the matter in which they see fit. Avatars are very distinguashable from a real life child and there for the law has no incling here if people bring the fed's in they are just squashing people's freedoms in SL and things are going to get bad. They were doing it in the privacy of their own home as two consenting adults its not the imagery of a child because there is no child actually involved. There is digital porn out there made to have a girl look more like a child and thats not considered illegal at least in the united states and especially in california. While i may not like it or think its gross, like many other people here. I do respect their right to explore that part of SL. People that think its wrong just dont go deal with it. Was this really an issue to begin with. I mean the OP was prying into someones HOME. Not some public place. Its not illegal in any sense in the United States unless its an image of a real person that cannot be distiguished from a picture of a real child. There for the law turnover set in 2002 moots the argument of it being illegal. Take careful consideration what calling the fed's means. SL will likely end up having to shut down due to legal fee's and an on going investigation because some person didnt like what they saw. Its an avatar get over it. In all honesty people are supposed to be 18 and up here and if kids slip in then they lied and THEY are the ones that should be punished. People were saying why doesnt LL go back to the old way of signing up...... Which isnt really an argument in the least. Its a flawed logic really. How many people under 18 have their own cell phones by now? Some even have their own credit cards or very easy access to one. Its slightly less protected but there was nothing really there in the first place that prevented half the stuff you folks try to argue about with the old way. Think about this for a minute. Slavery is also illegal in the real world but there is GOR which no one says a thing about as being wrong because the people are consenting to it. Its not an image of a child but the likeness of a child in which a 2 people decided to explore sexuality with that avatar. If folks dont like it walk away from it dont get involved about it but also dont squash their rights to explore it in SL. Most people involved in Sexual things in SL keep r/l and SL seperate. Gorean's are not out being slaves in the real world but they come here to do that because its an outlet where its legal for them to do so. It doesnt mean these folks are pedophiles its just a way for them to explore something in sexuality. There are not alot of people playing children in SL that are involved in the sexual aspects of it. I've run accross mabye 3 in a total year and they very rarely got involved in it with their child AV. Its not rampant and its something they chose to do but people arnt respecting that right. This isnt real life and there is no child involved. Like i said many times i may not like it and i may frown upon it but i do respect their right to do it a trait which alot of people seem to be missing the point of. If there was a real child involved here i'd be outraged but this was 2 avatars in SL and 2 adults in the real world messing around having their privacy broken into. Get to know some age players here folks before you start jumping the about how wrong it is etc. You know very little about it. Here is a link for someone defining it http://www.albanypowerexchange.com/BDSMinfo/age_play.htm Look over it read the other links if you need to, aquaint yourself with what age play is about. Its about acting out the role of a child. These people in real life attempt to make themselves phsycially resemble a child to the best of their abilities if any of you know anything about age play. Thats what they are doing in SL only they can go a little further with it. It may be gross to you but its far from illegal and its far from morally being wrong. It's not protecting a child from anything. If your children are coming here and are under 18 thats their fault like i stated before. Dont judge people unless you truly understand them. |
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Floyd Gilmour
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jul 2006
Posts: 149
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08-09-2006 07:30
I think what no one mentions, and I wonder if it gets lost here, is that in the United States, the possession or creation of 'child pornography' includes writing and artwork. It is illegal, for example, to use a computer software program to create an image of a child having sex. It is also illegal to write stories about children having sex. In fact, one judge found that a prisoner's diary, in which he had written his sexual fantasies about children, constituted child pornography and he was sentenced to additional time in prison. This is despite the fact that the prisoner did not share his diary with anyone else. His diary was seized and read by prison guards. It is illegal to paint or draw a picture of a child having sex. Regardless of what LL may be capable of doing to prevent ageplay, regardless of whether it is consensual RP between adults, regardless of whether any actual children are harmed, regardless of what anyone on these forums thinks about the subject, what is being created with age play is, in fact, according to US law, felony creation of child pornography. The people who engage in this are, quite simply, stupid. IP addresses can be traced and many of these individuals have payment records with LL. All it takes is for the FBI to subpoena chat records and IP addresses and you're in prison for your 'consensual roleplay between adults.' Make no mistakes about it, IT IS ILLEGAL. Agreed. |
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
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08-09-2006 07:30
Some people find it unmoral to roleplay a child in an adult world made up mostly sex. Before you say SL isn't SEX!, read the write ups about it. Every single one talks about the cyber aspect of SL. Nice use of the word "mostly." There are still quite a lot of places without heavy sexual content. That's where I am, see? I leave when I see a child avi half dressed or not dressed. I complain to the management when its in a store or a public place. I play a child avatar all the time. How is it I've somehow never managed to see all these nekkid kids running around? Maybe you are the one with the problem, here? Mari _____________________
 "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden |
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-09-2006 07:30
I think it must be children thinking this person likes them or they have little to no self esteem thinking that somehow an adult having sex with them is going to make them feel more "grown up". YOU see it as a child... when it's an ADULT playing at being a child. Seperate reality from fiction please. You can say "its allowed" or "its just adults" all you want. Fact is its an adult who finds it sexually stimulating to have sex with children. I don't care if an adult who thinks having sex AS a child is ok or not. Its not ok. Its not ok to encourage sex with children. Its not ok to encourage pedifiles to act on thier impulses. Its not ok to do it just because YOU CAN! Guess we're all pedophiles then... This is MY opinion and I would have the same opinion if I had a child or NOT. Children MUST be protected by adults who can be trusted. They do not have the mental capacity to make a good descision when it comes to adult matters such as sex. They must be protected online from encouraging some pedifile who will find the cyber sex so stimulating they can't control thier urges outside of the cyber world and pray on innocent REAL children. Its ALL just encouraging them and its so damn frustrating that people defend this behavior! And thus says someone who's got no idea at all what ageplay is about... |
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aEoLuS Waves
Koffie?
Join date: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 279
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Report it to LindenLab and to your local agancy.
08-09-2006 07:31
Oh well, when they open this place up for real (Phillips 3dweb vision) this all will be ended anyway and the sick people that are into it will be going to another game where they will continu that crap.
Even the porn industrie wont make their game puppets look like children because they know its immoral to do so. So they give the tools to age play but not the puppet to make it look like a child. So keep on defending your rights to have cyber sex with av child's and use all your excuses why you should have the right to do so. For the sane people that see it and want to do something about this mess: Report it to LindenLab and to your local agancy. Thats all Folks! See you later and all the best.. _____________________
http://drainwaves.com
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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08-09-2006 07:32
Here you go people...
(  “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where— (A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; (B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct. Taken from: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002256----000-.html _____________________
Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own? |
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Lupus Delacroix
Wyrm Raider
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 695
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08-09-2006 07:34
what kills me is the people quoting laws like they know what they are talking about.
For artist i.e. drawn pornography of a child doing the nasty to be considered child pornography (thus ILLEGAL) it must be indistinguishable from the real thing. So if someone made a photorealistic child skin with a photorealistic child hair.... well then you might have a case on your hands. Howsoever the case would be against the owners of the intelectual property (i.e. NOT linden labs) in question. Do I agree with age play sex? No Do I think age play in general is kinda creepy? Yes Is any of it illegal? No. Thank you for your time. |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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08-09-2006 07:41
What kills me is people who respond to others who have educated themselves on aspects of the law, dismissing it without regard to its relevance.
Indistinguishable is what child-av sexuality is. There is no account/age verification involved, and therefor, no way to tell if the individual in question is a minor or not. what kills me is the people quoting laws like they know what they are talking about. For artist i.e. drawn pornography of a child doing the nasty to be considered child pornography (thus ILLEGAL) it must be indistinguishable from the real thing. So if someone made a photorealistic child skin with a photorealistic child hair.... well then you might have a case on your hands. Howsoever the case would be against the owners of the intelectual property (i.e. NOT linden labs) in question. Do I agree with age play sex? No Do I think age play in general is kinda creepy? Yes Is any of it illegal? No. Thank you for your time. _____________________
Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own? |
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-09-2006 07:45
Oh stop being so melodramatic. I dont like the idea of people impersonating children on secondlife for sexual gratification, morally to me I think its really quite disgusting. However, Its not my place to interfere in peoples personal lives and what they decide to do with them. To assume that people are going to start scamming people into being into 'child porn' on SL is silly. For a start, if they do get jiggy with it with a child AV.. regardless of who it is on either end the argument that to use the software you have to be over 18 blows it out of the water immediatly. Also, to then try and compare SL to dedicated porn sites... what are you on? Its consentual between two adults, in an enviroment that encourages the creation of any shape/size person regardless of boundaries. Wrong yes, in my eyes, but still legal. In other words, you didn't read what I put properly and you fail to see that *if* someone had a grudge against someone IRL and knew they played SL, they could very well use the whole child-av sex=pedophilia thing to get them marked as a pedophile... People get into trouble when someone with a grudge against them signs them up for porn sites... that is known to happen and the results can be nasty. (there are child porn sites out there, and all it needs is for one person to sign you up for it and you are in shit... esecially with a work email address...) With the way people here are screaming for child av sex to equal pedophilia, a little RL info is enough to get someone into the same kind of trouble in SL. Am I comparing SL to dedicated porn sites? No... that's just you not reading it properly. What I am doing is pointing out just what problems can be caused to innocent people by those who are baying for blood from anyone engaging in child av sex... and that would cause trouble for a lot more people than children it would protect, since there's not supposed to be children in SL anyway. Melodrama? Not a bit of it... just a little knowledge of what some people will do to get back at someone they don't like. |
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-09-2006 07:47
Indistinguishable is what child-av sexuality is. Oh yes... because whenever you look at a child-av, you instantly know it's really a child and not an adult roleplaying at being a child... Yes... really indistinguishable... |
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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08-09-2006 07:48
What kills me is people who respond to others who have educated themselves on aspects of the law, dismissing it without regard to its relevance. Indistinguishable is what child-av sexuality is. There is no account/age verification involved, and therefor, no way to tell if the individual in question is a minor or not. I'm sorry - i thought you were arguing the other side. So let me get this straight - to you, a child AV is intisinguishable from a real life image of a child? you might want to hit 'refresh' on your monitor. _____________________
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication. |
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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08-09-2006 07:48
What kills me is people who respond to others who have educated themselves on aspects of the law, dismissing it without regard to its relevance. Indistinguishable is what child-av sexuality is. There is no account/age verification involved, and therefor, no way to tell if the individual in question is a minor or not. Kind of just proved you didnt understand the law. What that means is that if you cant tell the image is not of a real child then it is illegal. Before 2002 all images digital or otherwise were considered illegal in 2002 you have to be able to distinguish the person in the photo from a real child. There was never really an age verification and the linden's ban anyone they learn is underage unless they can prove otherwise. Its assumed its an adult in SL and most of the players here are adults. The Linden's Do ban someone if they find out they are underage so if people report under age players there isnt a problem at all with it. The kid in this situation should be punished no the adult who thought it was another adult in an 18+ adult game. |
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Leyla Firefly
Photoshop Addict
Join date: 8 Aug 2004
Posts: 146
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08-09-2006 07:51
Best way to find out if it is illegal or not is call the FBI and have someone look into it?
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 Mystique- Intrigue- Calypso- Oceanus- Boulevard Mystique- Coronado- Alize |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-09-2006 07:53
What kills me is people who respond to others who have educated themselves on aspects of the law, dismissing it without regard to its relevance. Indistinguishable is what child-av sexuality is. There is no account/age verification involved, and therefor, no way to tell if the individual in question is a minor or not. Are you for banning all interaction between AVs? Might be safer if none of us talk to each other. _____________________
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-09-2006 07:53
Here you go people... ( “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where—(A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; (B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct. Taken from: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002256----000-.html Also taken from that source... (B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means— (i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited; (ii) graphic or lascivious simulated; (I) bestiality; (II) masturbation; or (III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or (iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person; So... not child pornography at all, since it needs to be indistinguishable from a real child... And you complain about people not understanding the law... |
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aEoLuS Waves
Koffie?
Join date: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 279
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08-09-2006 07:54
Best way to find out if it is illegal or not is call the FBI and have someone look into it? _____________________
http://drainwaves.com
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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08-09-2006 07:54
Best way to find out if it is illegal or not is call the FBI and have someone look into it? There are law resources one can look up. The law made it so if you cant tell the image is not of a real child then it is illegal if you can tell which in the case of SL its obvious that its not a real child then it is deamed legal. At least in the united states where LL resides and specifically in california there have been cases about digital photos in the past if you look check the rulings on them since 2002. If they can distinguish between a real child and an adult then they are safe. Which is often why they uses disclaimers and other things. They know its an adult before they look at it. Much like SL. People want to bring it being illegal into it to protect the children but they are to short sighted to see that there arnt even children involved here. |
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Mondo Kongo
"They say I need help."
Join date: 4 Sep 2005
Posts: 48
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F#$#'ing Disgusting!!!
08-09-2006 07:55
Just keep reminding yourself it is not a child. These are consenting adults ROLEPLAYING. That is just twisted and the sickest thing I have seen in my life. I know for a fact that kids are in the Adult grid. In the process of inviting an individual to a group I thought his 'persona' a bit juvenile. So I asked him honestly what his age was... 14. The kid is cool, not a punk griefer running around pushing everybody in the sabdbox, etc. But the fact remains... He's a KID in the Adult grid! How many of those club dancers are kids I wonder?!! A friend of mine was exploring around (Adult Grid) and ran across an Av that said he's a 9yo little boy! She asked him and he said he was 38 or something. Posing as a little boy on the Adult Grid!!! WTF! This is just plain F#$@ing WRONG! Consenting adults doesn't mean crap when they are condoning AND simulating sex with a child. ABSOLUTELY disgusting!! They should be Banned from second life as soon as its witnessed... BOTH parties!!! SECOND LIFE HAS HAD SOME GOOD MEDIA COVERAGE! WAIT UNTIL THE MEDIA GETS A HOLD OF THIS. WITH MORE PEOPLE PAYING ATTENTION THE "BIBLE THUMPERS" (no offense) WILL GET WIND OF THIS AND IT'LL BE ON THE NIGHTLY NEWS.... "And tonights headline story.... Pedifiles find Refuge and Solace in Virtual world!" |
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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08-09-2006 07:57
This is just plain F#$@ing WRONG! Consenting adults doesn't mean crap when they are condoning AND simulating sex with a child. ABSOLUTELY disgusting!! They should be Banned from second life as soon as its witnessed... BOTH parties!!! for what, exactly? _____________________
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication. |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-09-2006 07:57
That is just twisted and the sickest thing I have seen in my life. I know for a fact that kids are in the Adult grid. In the process of inviting an individual to a group I thought his 'persona' a bit juvenile. So I asked him honestly what his age was... 14. The kid is cool, not a punk griefer running around pushing everybody in the sabdbox, etc. But the fact remains... He's a KID in the Adult grid! How many of those club dancers are kids I wonder?!! A friend of mine was exploring around (Adult Grid) and ran across an Av that said he's a 9yo little boy! She asked him and he said he was 38 or something. Posing as a little boy on the Adult Grid!!! WTF! This is just plain F#$@ing WRONG! Consenting adults doesn't mean crap when they are condoning AND simulating sex with a child. ABSOLUTELY disgusting!! They should be Banned from second life as soon as its witnessed... BOTH parties!!! How many of the RL minors you encountered were using child-AVs? _____________________
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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08-09-2006 07:59
Look on the page 32 of this thread at my post and follow the link the folks that think its so wrong. Get to understand it a bit better and mabye talk to some age players. And just because he was playing a 9 year old boy in SL means pretty much jack. I have 4 children in SL ranging from little kid to adolescent to adult. Its an adult playing a kid and you find that wrong. I think you need to really think about that for a second. Also i bring up the point the real life minor LIED to get here. If they are here they arnt supposed to be and LL do ban people if they find out they are under age because they ARNT supposed to be here. This is an 18+ grid.
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aEoLuS Waves
Koffie?
Join date: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 279
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08-09-2006 08:00
There are law resources one can look up. The law made it so if you cant tell the image is not of a real child then it is illegal if you can tell which in the case of SL its obvious that its not a real child then it is deamed legal. At least in the united states where LL resides and specifically in california there have been cases about digital photos in the past if you look check the rulings on them since 2002. If they can distinguish between a real child and an adult then they are safe. Which is often why they uses disclaimers and other things. They know its an adult before they look at it. Much like SL. People want to bring it being illegal into it to protect the children but they are to short sighted to see that there arnt even children involved here. Note: The FBI is very interested in these cases, although its mabey legal, they will file it and it will end up with all the other stuff waiting for an opening. Its more like keeping an eye on it and the persons/companies involved. _____________________
http://drainwaves.com
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