Enough Complaints, Time for Solutions

Bonjour Everyone, Angelique here, Occasional responder, First time Thread Poster.

Ok, I've used this in One response, but then it occured to me it would make a Better thread. In the last few days i've counted well over a Dozen Threads All with the same Theme. Lamenting the Free Basic accounts with Insufficient verification of Age or identity, and Linking a (Supposed) rise in griefing incidents to it.

Ok, When I started Two years ago Basic accounts cost ten Dollars, required a Credit Card, and Used your E-Mail as an additional identifier. This condition did Not stop Griefers or teens from entering the Grid. Children used Mommy's Plastic, and Name, and Popped in No problem. Griefers were able to Circumvent that system to such a degree a large organized group of them successfully Took down the entire SL grid once, and a signifigant portion of it only days later. Alternate accounts abounded as well, Typified by One who shall remain Nameless who used at rough estimate Over twelve alts to set up Phoney Auction scams, acting Simultaniously as Event Organizer, Security, Two or more Bidders, AND the person being Auctioned. This scam netted Profits in the tens of thousands of Lindens and there is no real telling how many times it was pulled.

In a Nutshell,, Credit Card verifications DIDN'T WORK.

The current system is Hardly an Improvement. Effectively removing what amounted to only a minor speed bump on the griefers road to Second Life. Granted, This system doesn't work Either. (Though i question the "Rise in griefing". Frankly, it's seemed Uncommonly quiet lately.)

Ok, Premis Laid, Now to the Meat.

We Know it's Broken. How do we Fix it?
It's time for us to Stop Complaining (Bitching is the Easy part) and do the REAL work. So, everyone who has been so Vocal so far, lets hear your SOLUTIONS for a Change.
A few conditions of course;
--First, it should be a REAL solution. Proof we don't live our entire lives in a Fantasy world.
--Second, it should be a PRACTICLE solution. One that actually CAN reasonably be executed without Changing the Constitution, or the fundamental laws of Physics.
--Third, It should be Economicly Viable. This meaning Linden Labs can Institute it Without having to take out loans roughly equal to the National dept.

Now, those of you Inclined to Complain More, there is well over a dozen OTHER threads available for that, Please use them.
Those of you simply Inclined to believe it is only your job to point out the problems, NOT come up with the solutions, Please see above.

ATTENTION ALL LINDENS:
Here they are, The Web geniuses (SP?) are Giving you Benifit of their advanced thought processes. Take Notes.

Let the brainstorming comense.

Angel.

Allow an option for 'Unverified' accounts that dont require age validation. Unverfied accounts would be limited to Orientation Island, Help Island and a SEPERATE continent that would need about 10 sims of prebuilt starter space where unverifieds can interact. This would need to be a Linden Owned no-script sandbox, Linden Owned script enabled sandbox, a public meeting / infohub sim and a few sims up for sale to premium members. PRICED IN $L NOT IN USD. Island owners need a flag they can toggle in their land tools to allow or disallow Unverified users ability to enter. An unverified user WOULD NOT EVEN SEE other land on the main map. Or if they do it needs to be greyed out similar to how offline sims appear. These sims would be open to all residents so businesses and organizations wanting to cater to Unverified users can jointly interact, teaching and possibly setting up freebie shops.

A 2nd option would be for someone to voluntarily enter their billing information (charging it some nominal few cents to ensure its valid and contains money, and that it is NOT a p arents card because the charge would show up alerting parent to their childs actions).

3rd option would be for an account to be able to specify another account as an Alt. That account would automatically recieve an email confirmation and the new account would have its information inherited from the alt thus no longer being unverified and not incuring an additional 'nominal charge' to reverify a billing method already on file.

After an Unverified account has been on the grid for at least 2 straight months without an abuse incident it would gain access to the mainland but REMAIN listed in profile as Unverfied and scripts need access to check someones verified status so that people can have security systems capable of detecting these people.

Any unverified account would be able to log into secondlife.com/account and supply billing information at any time to get verified.

Any unverified account would have an option, accessible via pie menu in the RATE options, named 'Sponsor' that would allow a verified account to sponsor the unverified users granting them access to the mainland. Any punishments given to an unverified user because of abuse reports would instantly be applied to the sponsor at the same time, remove sponsorship and restrict the unverified user off the mainland till they have maintained a clean rapsheet for 2 months. They would no longer be eligible for sponsorship after that. There would be no manner for an unverified user to click anywhere to request sponsorship. It would have to be done via pie menu by an already verified user.

[may insert additional ideas later]

I like the first part of your suggestion a lot, Seronis - an expanded Help Island zone, with allowing Estate owners to give Unverified access. After that I think it gets too complicated. If someone is really an adult and sticks around for a couple of days, long enough to know whether they want more, just have them do the credit verification.

It's not that hard for an adult to get one of those. And after a few days they'll know SL is legitimately worth it.

Well Said and stated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uhm, Angel, if you hadn't noticed by now, we don't make the solutions nor can provide any. Lindens do as they wish and drop us the ball whenever they feel like it. And oh, welcome to the Forums where the complaints are many and few between!

This all sounds so complicated. There is a lot we can already do.

My view is that the existing controls should be largely adequate to deal with the current problems. Landowners do not need to set their lands to allow builds, 0 or long return times, and scripts by other folk but many do, leaving them open to bombs, pushing by scripting and general aggraviation.

As in RL, buildings should protect occupants. They also give better access control. Many doors are already scripted for secure access. Security orbs are available at fairly low cost. However, LL need to give occupants privacy, both visually and textually

I do believe that there are some group management problems and it seems to me that the new group policy rollout should have been managed at the same time that recruitment rules were relaxed. Can't really say what is need here until those policies are rolled out.


Landowners should:

1. Disable others' scripting, building, and land editing.

2. Ensure their buildings are secure.

3. Set object return to 1 minute.

4. know how to freeze other av's.

5. How to fill out AR's.

6. If running a club or event, charge a small admission fee. Go some way to keep out the riff raff.

7. If running an open door event, nominate a few individuals to take care of griefers with powers to eject or teleport home.



LL need to implement some simple changes.

1. Improve group policies(in progress). Should also be able to make groups easier to generate and manage so that each landowner can invite others into their groups for socializing and sharing scripting/building experiences.

2. Respect landowners wishes not to have any else's prims on their land (Except those attached to av's) unless they share group membership.

3. Change the alt view settings so as not to allow viewing into closed structures. Occlusion is already implemented for efficiency, this could be extended so no view is possible of space not accessable by the av (grey would be good).

4. Rework push permissions.

I am an alt and went through the new recruitment process to see what it is like. I joined about 4 am grid time and shared the reception area with five other newbies, so I can see why LL have instituted this new policy: to make the grid more accessable. My reason, no other way to retionalize my bad choice of name when I first enrolled.

Think positive!

Ed

"Uhm, Angel, if you hadn't noticed by now, we don't make the solutions nor can provide any. Lindens do as they wish and drop us the ball whenever they feel like it. And oh, welcome to the Forums where the complaints are many and few between!"

Ok,, Eins, You and I have Known each other a long time, You Know i hate repeating myself BUT, stated once again for your benefit.

"Now, those of you Inclined to Complain More, there is well over a dozen OTHER threads available for that, Please use them.
Those of you simply Inclined to believe it is only your job to point out the problems, NOT come up with the solutions, Please see above."

I thought that was pretty clear.
Constructive suggestions please.

Now as to Seronis suggestion, It sounds good, and Fits the criteria but ten sims seems a little small for all the Potential Unverifieds, How about this instead. Allow Unverified accounts access to the TEST GRID Only. It's a fair size, Already Monitored and has various limits on it. Life there would be a little hard. The Unverifieds would have to Live through Bugs, and Outages, But on the Plus side, they would provide a Steady Population for Testing new developements. They would get Interaction with the main grid players who frequent the test grid, And establish a secondary economy there. Most or all of the other criteria you suggest could work in that Scenario. (If we have any potential griefers in the Lot, Spotting, and Plugging Exploits, and cheats before they Hit the main grid would be an added Bonus).

Keep them coming.

Angel.

Not just 10 sims. 10 sims TO START THE SYSTEM. with 3 sims linden owned and 7 up for sale those will get bought by SOMEONE. Also it needs to be hard coded into the system that noone can own more than 1 sim worth of land in this 'newbie zone' to minimize the effect any individual can have on new players impression of the world.

After this initial offering at any point where less than 1 sim worth of land is available for sale 2 more sims need added to this newbie continent. In this way the newbie region will grow but ONLY AS THE COMMUNITIES DESIRE TO SUPPORT UNVERIFIED ACCOUNTS grow.

That statement is my key point in it being restricted. I didnt not intend for the continent size to be stagnant. To the idea on the Test Grid I highly agree and have mentioned in other forum topics that I support that idea. Merely forgot to mention it HERE also.

That clarify things better?

Hi Angel

I think there is one thing that should be done - everything else should flow from that.

I think the Lindens should hire a proper customer services person, whose job would be to act as a genuine liaison between the customers and the Lindens. At the moment we are suffering because the Lindens are adopting a hands-off approach, which has reached such a level that there is no real communication at all, at a time when dissatisfaction has reached crisis level.

A customer service manager would ensure that there was a certain level of transparency so that we had some idea of why things were proposed or done, and also that our concerns would be brought to the attention of the Lindens with our knowledge that this had been done; such a person would ensure we would be properly consulted on proposed large changes.

I notice that even Torley has become quiet during the current crisis. The hiring of Torley was probably the best decision the Lindens have made recently, and I do hope her silence doesn't indicate that she is currently having difficulties. Actually giving Torley these extra powers and responsibilities would accomplish what I have suggested. She would require the autonomy to release information that she felt should be released and she would have to be privy to decision-making at the highest level.

Do that, Lindens, act on the information she supplies, and I guarantee that within a month your customer base will be a lot happier than it is now.

There are real solutions, these solutions have been even.

Bring back the CC verifacition.

It isn't hard it doesn't require a lot of math.

They need to undo what they did, then impove on the CC verifaction.

I can figure that out and I don't have perfect spelling.

Something that a lot of people think is a requirment inorder to be think logicaly and be listened to.

I see no problem with allowing limited-functionality 'guest/visitor/freebie' accounts on the main grid. Setting up a subsidiary grid for them would be just another logisitcal & financial headache for LL and would not give the visitors an opportunity to see the length and breadth of SL. Furthermore a subsidiary 'visitor' grid would give a skewed, and possibly sugar-coated, view of SL. Far better to let them see the heights and depths of SL as it is.

The sponsorship idea sounds interesting and should be investigated further. The sign-up definitely needs to be fixed, even for the freebie accounts as the name, birthdate and email entries are all broken.

Upgrading to basic or premium would require verifiable ID info and possibly a 24-hour delay while details are properly checked. Basic account holders would recieve a lump sum of L$ to start them on their way. Maybe look into the viability of reinstating the 50L$ weekly stipend for basic accounts. Premium accounts continue as-is.

The details i stated would ENSURE the visitor grid would be no different than any random sampling from the main grid. And for all purposes it would still be IN the main grid, just as Help Island and the Orientation Islands are also in the main grid but just not accessible to the general public.

With visitor grid sims being purchased by current premium members that would mean it *IS* on the same level as any other place. Its an area of resident created content. The only limit would be that it is only gonna be purchased by people who have CHOSEN they wish to deal with the visitors.

I also stated that the restriction to visitor grid is limited to 2 months of proven good behaviour before being granted main grid privledges. No other benifits would be given but two months of good behaviour from an avatar generall means they wont be a trouble maker and are safe to roam unrestricted.

They ALWAYS have the option of supplying their payment info and getting verified. Nothing is forcing them to CHOSE to remain unverified and we would RATHER have them verified early than to not do so at all.

Overall there is very little additional headache for LL. The sims in the new area would still be earning Tier / Subscription payments. It will be equally profitable (or not) as any other sim but it would IMPROVE THE QUALITY of the mainland accounts living standards. Trouble makers could be discovered MUCH quicker. Potential damage would be limited.

I still see it as a win/win for everyone.

Guest users could have temporary inventories, i.e. it would be purged on logout, money disabled and more limited use of push and rez functions so they could test guns but would hit the limits faster than normal users to prevent griefing. Perhaps the login screen could have a new button "Login as unregistered user" which would let a user login by selecting a lastname and type in a nickname to create a temporary user that would not exist after logout.

Ok let's keep it civil. Complaints for one thing are human nature. Those of us who've been here, know how the Lindens work. We've had plenty of solutions for them to dwell on, and NO Linden has responded even as of yet. Tell me something, what does that say to you? Purely they are not interested in whats good or 'legally obligatory' The teens and minors that are coming in by the thousands are simply too much to bare.

There's only one practical solution to that even as far as griefing goes.. GET BACK THE CC Verification process. But since the damage has already been done, theres no going back now. So in all hopes of all of us trying to draw conclusions and solutions to the problem, isn't going to work. The Lindens need to act, and they hadn't thus far, nor responded.

Hmmm.... temporary inventories would be a complete disincentive to purchasing any goodies. I know for certain that if LL sets up a separate sub-grid for the visitor accounts, I'd be in there like a shot to start selling my treehouses. OTOH, if their inventories are purged on logout, there wouldn't be much point in anyone setting up shop there.

I like the concept as well, but I don't think allowing SL citizens to own the land there would be a good idea. Those plots of land would become the most sought-after property in all of SL. All new accounts will be spening time on those lands and, without knowledge of the rest of the world, will become loyal to any vendors setup on those lands.

This means, whoever owns the land will have the best potential for profit (which is what game is all about now, sadly). The prices for the land will be through the roof as the Land Baron's bid their prices to heights only they could afford. They will then turn around and just rent the land out for obscene proces to continue to keep their money flow in.

I could go on with doomsday scenario, I could even throw in calls of FIC in there (no idea why, but I'm sure somebody will find a reason to) but I think the land should just be Linden Owned and the objects there, a rotation of objects they wish to place out based on
"donations to the cause". OH, there we go, the selection process for what objects are palced out could be filled with calls of favortisim, the "FIC", and "the chosen ones". There, see, I knew I would find a place to use that.

Obviously CC verification was causing potential troublemakers already in world to moderate their behaviour - removal of those constraints has resulted in large numbers of existing residents behaving unacceptably in world and almost certainly getting 'Alted up' to the hilt.
It also reduced the teen on MG issue. And that's without the plain ordinary griefers that have arrived too.
Verification should be reinstated

Because of the considerable number of unverified accounts now running loose in SL it is now ESSENTIAL that landowner tools are upgraded - and I don't mean 200m high bans either!

I'm afraid the only way to go looks like MAC address land banning with unlimited ban lists and unlimited ban height.
It won't be perfect and it will mean a LOT of work for the landowners, but in time I think the nuisance can be reduced to manageable, if not acceptable, proportions.

And maybe NEXT time some genius at LL comes up with 'a really good idea' they'll consider discussing it with the residents and LISTENING carefully before implementing it?

I was thinking more that they could be on the maingrid, but since they're unregistered accounts they shouldn't be able to buy or sell anything, and since they're temporary unregistered users their accounts including the inventory should be purged on logout.

I'm going to disagree, Angelique. We still had griefers, but every MMO has griefers. They represent roughly 1-2% of any given MMO population.

But while credit card validation didn't stop them from griefing, it did allow LL to block that credit card from being used in some circumstances for creating new accounts. Furthermore, there was the unspoken sense when you registered that Lindens knew where to find you if you didn't behave.

Yes, you could always get another credit card. But only the most debt-ridden people I know of have more than a couple. And applying for new ones requires weeks of application and review with most CC companies.

In other words, no system is flawless. But at least the verification we had was something. Now there are no inhibitions whatsoever on creating throwaway accounts and causing holy hell for a week or two before LL finally gets around the reviewing all those ARs.

I don't believe for a minute that there hasn't been a significant rise in griefing. I'm seeing it with my own two eyes every night and it's almost to the point where my group can't even take a night to relax with the family or attend to RL duties for fear that some jerk kid will firebomb our club and chase away the members. I did that last night - logged on at 8:30 after dining out, and our building was covered with bombs & particle crap and the few members still there said that an idiot had firebombed them. I banned him, and yet half an hour later he casually flies right into the parcel. So apparently not even the existing (weak) land tools work correctly.

Enhanced anti-griefer tools are only a part of the need here. Re-implementing I.D. verification is an absolute MUST as step #1.

I'm paying LL an obscene amount of money a month. Part of that is going into their "fix the problems" fund. It's not my job to fix their fuckup.

I suspect we won't see any REAL action from LL till they get to the subscriber count they really want.

I started a thread earlier in Features Suggestions, where I recommended that if we MUST have unverified signups, then those unverified accounts should be stuck on Orientation Island and/or a small collection of 'newbie sims' until such time as they either provided verified ID or were sponsored by someone who is verified themselves and is willing to take responsibility for their actions. That thread is here. I gave some extensive examples of an RP Forum where I am an admin, that uses this approach quite effectively to screen out trouble before it ever gets to their version for 'the main grid'.

I think Linden Labs needs to seriously return to some sort of tracability, where there is at least some recourse that can be used against those who abuse the the rules. Credit cards are not a perfect solution, but if someone illegally uses a credit card to commit fraud, that is a criminal act, and you can go after them legally. It is not a crime to enter false ID info onto a regisration form for an on-line service. Might be perjury, but it isn't on a level with stealing mommy's credit card and using it to commit fraud!

Perhaps LL should hook up with some of the verification systems that the Adult porn sites use? I'd hate to have that association, but at least those XXX sites undestand that they are providing access to XXX Adult content, and that they need to restrict access accordingly. Most of SL is not XXX, but enough of it is XXX to warrant complete and effective measures to keep the kids out of here.

Personally, I doubt LL will pull their heads out of the sand until some parent slaps a huge lawsuit on them for allowing access to minors. The new Linden Labs mascot should be the Ostrich. With it's head stuck in the sand between it's feet.

I agree that having a special zone where residents could own property would be a bad idea. That's why I recommended instead that all Island owners have the option to turn on Unverified access, whether new or old. This would not alter too much the already deranged land business. Sure, it would give another advantage to Estate owners, but LL has already made it clear that if you own less than a sim, you're nobody.

This is teh same mentality that says i pay for a ticket to a baseball game so i can throw things at teh field and swear at players!


Mistress, welcome to teh wonderful world of teh forums, where peopel who are decent nice peopel in rl or even in world, come to vent their nasty side,
i have decided that it is pretty much futile to try to do anything positive here, people like Reitsuki, eins, and a slew of others are no longer able to b e positive about anything, and feel it their duty to point out to evewry one as often as possible that they do not need to be positive and they pay good money for teh right to whine and carry on! i have no issue with their lack of belief in LL, i just wonder why they feel it neccessary to post in threads trying to be positive at every oppurtunity. Is it to much work for them to start their own thread? Do they feel the need to piss in everybody's wheaties? Does it make them feel better to ruin others positive thoughts? "shrugs" i dunno.

As for my suggesstions, well of teh things i have heard so far i like the one giving land owners teh right to ban/allow non varified peoples on thir land i think it has teh most flexibility and allows SL to be used in more different ways.

Good points Ceera. For the Lindens this is a "limited" risk they obviously are willing to take and they don't mind losing established residents as long as they see 10 alts signing up in their place. The end result, however, will be a diluted, less-creative rendition that bears more resemblance to Sociolotron meets Halo 2.

I doubt very much that any of this will cause LL to rethink, short of an absolute flood of ARs every day and a sudden drop in long-established residents as they exit the world. Or, as you say, lawsuits over the unrestricted access pre-teens now have to adult content without even so much as a pretense of identification -- thus, no personal accountability.

I'm sorry to hijack Angelique's noble intentions here, but I'm not sure what point there is to making suggestions when the Lindens seem very satisfied that their inadvisable change in registration policy hasn't caused any harm. It's my intention to bang my head on that brick wall until either I fall over unconscious or someone at the Labs starts listening.