useless to us feature....but i guess it's profit for LL

I seriously don't get why this needs to be done. Except for having yet another way for LL to make money off people that get fed up with griefer jerks that drive people out of their lands.

I mean seriously, this land ends up going to land resellers either way usually.

OLD WAY: Land gets released because someone is sick of signs/banners/(ie impeach bush dude)etc.... and the person that has the annoyance up, usually has a land scanner and gets notified that the land is free to grab / or your friendly neighborhood landbaron has a landscanner that detects free land...so they grab it.

NEW WAY: Same beginning, J-random user gets drove out, releases land due to not able to sell it, Gov. Linden gets FREE land. Then Gov Linden auctions it off. Land barron/reseller wins auction and resells.

So....where does this help the communtiy over all? Simple it don't.
Ty for giving good reason to the nice grief army that SL has grown to harbor in the name of profit LL .

The old way, abandoned land was quickly bought up and re-introduced to paid tier. Now LL takes posesssion of abandoned land and will prepare it for auction.

They can't keep up with the current rate of auctions, no less numerous 16, 32, 48 sq m plots that require labor intensity to cleanup, terraform and list for auction. LL makes no money holding land in their tiers.

Just another case of LL co-opting (GOMing) resident run businesses.

Who's next? SLEX? SLB? Lookout guys. LL wants your revenue.

I wonder how much of this change is to with trying to bolster the attractiveness of the mainland for potential purchasers or to hide what is really happening with mainland plots, namely that there is an ever increasing glut of land for sale.

If it all appeared as land for sale on the mainland, SL would increasingly look like a wasteland, don't you think. I've been reading more and more that the Governor seems to be acquiring greater amounts of land and then sitting on it.

I don't expect much of this land to make it to auction at all.

From what I've seen, 512 plots are made back into first land, which really sucks when that plot next to you, empty for 3 months, finally reverts to linden control,
you think, sweet, I can buy it in a week, it turns yellow on the map, and you can't buy it cause its firstland again.
akkkkkkkk

I agree. In fact this will blow up in their face and the "snowball effect" will take over. The good news is, when SL goes under, or takes a downward turn, it will be LL themselves holding the bag instead of paying clients.

Eh, whether its LL doing cash grab or not, is not really a concern to myself. Infact, we should be supporting LL, as if you do the math, they're still in the red in the end or barely in the black (do a TCO on their business model, you'll see what I mean.) The more finacially stable or viable LL is, then the more development and support we can expect. Better to have a healthly LL then a sick LL.

If anything, if all of that "reclaimed" land is only for sell using L$, then I fully support it. It helps drain some L$ out of circulation and helps the L$ <-> USD conversion for us. As previously stated by Phillip and other LL staff, they need to pull L$ out of the market and slow down the infusion of new L$ into circulation, to help the conversion rate stay stable; thus, why all the cut to our weekly Linden welfare cheques and event support restrictions we have had in the past. I'd rather see this land go L$ on auction and our weekly infusion or event support either return to their previous levels or restrictions lifted a bit.

A good side benefit techinicially is that it eliminates the need for the scummier land barrons to employ land scanners. All those countless 16m plots out there with scanner scripts would be in turn useless and either go up for sale or go to auction, amen! This is a double benefit as it now that land is available to us, and one less sim intesive script running.

Just my two cents. Why go after LL with a pitchfork if it benefits us the residents in the end. Hehe, if anything, let the barrons pay market rate for land instead of L$1/m2. The more it costs them to do the business, the happier I am Sure, they'll try to sell if for more to us, but in the end, if we won't pay more for that 16-64m plot, they get to pay tier out of their pockets

I think it's a good thing that the land barons have to buy land at an auction instead of snapping it with their land scanners.

Buying land at 1/sq means land barons can sell land to end users for a much better price.

Now you will pay alot more.

Why would people suddenly want to pay more for land? They can't charge more than people are willing to pay.

Some good point layouts there Trim, but....the part that often gets overlooked, is the fact that NO protection is put in place against obviously annoying behaviour in building that tends to drive people to move.

So, in that case it looks and feels a bit onesided (towards profit and not to the benifit of the average user that wants to exist peacefully. I have dealt with this behaviour for years that basically goes unchecked by LL. (read up on Kissling for a great example).

And so far the ONLY recourse anyone really has is to "abandon" their land and move usually in these instances.....

Buisness models/L$ market value/sick or healthy LL buisness model be damned....if they can't help their "paying" and loyal customers against abuses like this, and don't honestly show concern for them aside from annoying "form letter" responces to complaints and no real resolution. They deserve a kick in the rear.

You are totally missing the point.

SL is a market economy. Land scanners buy land cheap. They turn around and sell it cheap to the "middle man" The middle man sells it a market value.

Two residents just made a profit, providing a service to the community.

Tell me, what good does it do, to take the profits away from resident run business?

Now LL gets ALL the money. So the notion that joining SL to make money is a farce, because once your business becomes profitable, LL will GOM it.

Providing a service of running laggy land scanners to take the land before anyone else gets the chance. Yeah I'm really gonna miss that.

Tell me what expertise and proof you have that scanners are laggy? Are you a scripter?

Have you even seen a scanner script?

Have you done comparative studies to say.... particles or sounds or lighting?

I think people are perhaps looking at this in the wrong way.

For months now, we've been calling for some kind of solution to Bush guy.

This is very obviously an attempt to lessen the possibility of land extortion. Buying land simply for the sake of extorting people won't be profitable if the land can't be snagged at 'public land prices'. People aren't giving in to extorters enough, which is a good thing.

Have we come to hate LL that much that we can't see this?

My suggestion beyond this would be that the land be offered to people already in the sim, first.

Honestly I had a slight snide laugh at the "provide a service" thing myself....

I really don't see this "service" as a benifit to the general SL public, I never consider one lineing their pocket by adding expence to others a service.

Anyone reselling land is not adding anything to the land, they are not making it MORE usefull or anything by buying it and reselling it for more.... It's just land FFS.

Way back in the early days in SL there was land open to the public in almost every sim, there were little to no land hoarders/barons/resellers. Anyone could pickup and move if they wanted to. it didn't really hurt anyone to do a relocate if needed.

So based on my previous complaint about how the average user is actually hurt by this change in how LL handles released land.....people that resell actually ADD to the problem.

They do so in many ways...here are a few:

1) They jackup the price of land. Sure would be MUCH more of a service to the people of SL if they just stepped off and let us buy it as it were without the "middleman" lineing their pockets.

2) No land available for easy relocate (aside from of course this so called "service" type land that is for sale at the jacked up prices.

3) They drive the mentality that most of these build griefers feed on to get people to move so they can have a chance to get the land that they may be targetting.

So this so called "service" I am not seeing it.

Of course can't see it while your head is shoved up your ass.

I think it's just a language issue, lag in SL has become synonymous with anything that takes time due to the perception that computers work instantly.

I still don't agree with scanners for similar reasons to unrequested advertising:
* It's a consumption of someone elses resources (Sim performance for their land) for one persons financial gain.
* Scale is not sustainable, we'd be bogged down in them if more than a few people were running them.
* It moves the land system more towards "land baron" control, any cheap land is detected and snapped up and the average person loses out again.

Silly boy with your fancy logic. Didn't you know that LL bashing is the "in" thing to do these days?

I don't want to hijack the thread on this subject and if you wish to continue this discussion past this post, maybe start a new thread and we can debate it there.

Where do we expect LL to draw the line on the management of inworld content? At which point do we define it as LL going to far? We as residents enjoy the benefits of "freedom of creation" and in rare instances does LL get involved. Having said this, as it currently stands, there are good points to their policy and bad points. In the instance of Kissling, thats an obvious demonstration of the negative points for their policy and there's no debate to these points.

Having said this, if LL became more agressive in their management of content in world, the fickle consumers of SL would begin to scream bloody murder. Countless threads alone in these forums are devoted to FIC, favourtism and unfairness. Infact, its gotten so bad that now, LL has had to adopt a policy of "won't partner with residents", why? This is due to the backlash that is experienced each time that LL choses to partner with residents publicly on anything. An obvious demonstration of this is the work by Bedazzled. How many people have complained about the relationship between LL and Bedazzled? IMHO, if anything, we should be commending them as a group and LL and be encouraging them to continue their partnerships. A personal example of my own is the closure of Spittoonie. I attribute its closure to the residents and not LL. I did approach LL on helping support Spittoonie until which point I was in a finacial position to 1/ resume covering its expenses and 2/ possibly repay the monthes of tier that were covered. In the end, they respectfully had to say no because of the "fairness" factor imposed by the residents. If LL began applying their administrative abilities on the judgement of content, then this would most likely cause an uproar within the community as a whole.

Now, for the most important part, within many countries, we enjoy the benefit of absolute free speech and free press with very few exclusions to this (ie: Anti-hate laws in Canada). Here in SL, we enjoy the same benefits. At which point do we want LL censoring content in world? They do already, but in a very limited respect. At this point, I even disagree with some of their current policies pertaining to this, but understand and respect their decision. If we want editorial control over content, we may as well go to an extreme and ask LL to transition the content creation process to that of There.com, and request that all content is approved by them before it can be placed in world. Better to be safe and ensure that never again anyone is offended, inconvienced or trated unfairly.

Here's another point, what if you are the recipient of a "tear it down" order from LL? How would you feel about this point? Wouldn't you feel as if your "freedom to create" is being tromped on? What are the chances that you would choose to logout of SL perminantely after such an event?

I agree with you, blatent attempts to get people to move are terrible, but I don't hold LL to audit and remove this content unless its in direct violation of the TOS or CS. We can't begin asking LL to censor content in the grid, its just too dangerous to both us and LL.

Furthermore, you need to revisit your expectations of LL as a company. They're here to provide us a canvas with few limitations. They are simply an ASP. There are certain things that they must strictly enforce to ensure SL is successfull, but in other respects, they need to keep out of it. An example is your ISP. They provide you internet connectivity, a mail account, maybe web space, et cetra. If you are offended by porn and stumble apon a porn site in your travels, do you hold them accountable for not block it and ruining your internet experience? Absolutely not! Sure, AOL may do it, but do you expect every ASP to filter content?

Finally, if you want strict zoning and control over content, you do have choices! Yes, you do! 1/ Join a community like Nereumberg (spelling is wrong, woops), where the residents in a government fashion demonstrate content control. 2/ Join a themed sim like the ones Anshe operatates, 3/ Get your own private island and rent land to friends and others you approve of, and/or 4/ Form a "tenants association" within your sim and with a charter that dictates that land must be first sold ingroup before selling out of group.

LL supports us residents self governing ourselves. LL doesn't want to be our parents or act as our gaurdiens. They assume we're all adults and can come to our own resolutions.

In closing, asking LL to govern us is paramount to supporting inworld censorship and indicating that we are all children incapable of resolving our own issues. If I want that type of environment, I'll go to There.com, TSO or like platform. We enjoy our freedom here and need to protect it.

As before, enough hijacking, if you want to discuss further, lets start a new thread.

who has their head where??

I at least explained my position and the thoughts/reasoning behind it in a civil manner.
I am sorry that my opposing your opinion instills such hostility that you have to resort to a classroom name calling type mentality.

Care to be civil and mature about the topic and actually enlighten myself and others as to how I am wrong and explain it instead of slinging profanities?

More narrow-mindedness yet again.

1- I own land in the sim I scan. I rez 1 prim and a script that less intensive than a roation script. I paid for the land and I pay pay tier...alot of tier.

2- Scale...well That can be said about any script.

3- It does not move toward land baron control. Thats an unfounded delusion. When I aquire land, it's resold at a low rate to move fast via "Find" "Land Sales". ANYONE can buy it at a low rate. I challenge anyone to find a single person who saw me sell land at or above market value.

Truth is, you have no idea how I conducted my business while finding it easy to make false assumptions.

To me, you sound nothing less than anti-land baron and envious of someone trying to make a buck.

I did already, yet you simply chose to dismiss it.

Amen!


Ask Charlie Like it was said, its the "in" thing. Everyone is quite quick to pull out the closest 2x4 and bash them.



Awesome idea! Yeah, give the current sim residents first dibs. Lessens the chances of examples of Charlie's from occuring.

I own land in the sims I scan.

Excuse if the length of my post or points I make come across as hostility. Infact, its the farthest from. There was one paragraph that does come across harsh that I have withdrawn and apologize. Furthermore, after reviewing my post, there were no profanities no where.